Future of Detroit Theater meeting was packed

[Thealexa Becker]

What I am getting from this discussion that you all seem to expect the city to bend to your will every time something upsets you. You also seem to have a false optimism about there being businesses to come around after this. I'm not saying they won't but they might not either.

Think about the image that you are projecting of the citizen body to ANY business, not just a restaurant chain.

I understand that some residents are annoyed, fine, you can be annoyed. But you this zoning law nonsense is unreasonable.

Also, let me point out that there are other businesses on Detroit with a drive thru that no one is pitching a fit about, Burger King and Dunkin Donuts.

So, do you think they will be happy or affected if you change these laws?

And the changing of zoning laws might be suspicious given the timing and public outcry. It looks like the community is discriminating against McDonalds. Also, for those of you who hate government getting in your business, how would you feel if you were the owner of the theater, Lakewood changes the zoning laws, and McDonalds backs out? Yeah, you just lost a sale of a property because the city government got involved because some residents complained.

Some of you really really need to think about what you are suggesting. And how what you are doing and saying is going to affect future businesses looking to move into the city.

[Mark Mraz]

Yes, I am dying to have a McDonalds on that corner....b/c you know...we need another fast food place....we deperately need anothjer fast food place....maybe they can connect a WalGreens to the McDonalds...since getting crappy fast food and overpriced goods is suchah ard thing to find nowadays.

[Roy Pitchford]

I think this about sums it up. It was disturbing at the meeting the other night that the officials representing the City seemed to be holding up their hands saying, "There is nothing we can do!" As if the zoning laws descended from on high and weren't created by city officials themselves, and committees formed by them to serve this city.

If you feel like forwarding your post to the mayor and City Council, you have permission to include my name on the bottom as another citizen who supports this very well-stated point of view.

Betsy Voinovich

Really, there's nothing they can do? My mom had an idea: Remember the West End Project? The city was going to take dozens of "blighted" homes using eminent domain, bulldoze them and sell the land to developers.
Is the Detroit Theater blighted??

Put 2 and 2 together...

[Kristine Pagsuyoin]

It looks like the community is discriminating against McDonalds

I think the bottom line for most people is that we are potentially tearing down an historic and sentimental building that has given much to Lakewood and replacing it with something that isn't so special. Whether you view this as rational or not, it is an emotional loss and really a shame to lose something that isn't a bar/restaurant, hair salon, etc. in Lakewood.

Now, I did attend the Detroit theater despite scary bathrooms and ankle-biting bugs. I see the potential of the building and I am disgusted by the lack of leadership by groups who I think would take in an interest in saving it. I am not one to sit around, and if asked, I would work toward doing something about the theater. I didn't realize that before it closed that it was losing money or that there would be so little time to do something about it once it did close.

Cities and the citizens do have a say on how the place they live takes shape. I am not against McDonald's being on Detroit (I don't think we can sustain all these chain restaurants that all serve similar food over the long-term, quite honestly), but why not look at other spaces. One the Detroit Theater is gone that's it. If it the building can't be a theater any longer than maybe something else that at least would better serve that space and Lakewood.

[Matthew Lee]

Kristine, you raise a very interesting point.

Why DIDN'T the owner (Norman Barr, I think) come out and say "Hey, I'm losing money and will finally have to close the theater. Anyone interested in helping me out and saving it by attending more movies?"

Yes, he had it on the market but he never actually came to the community with a plea either to save it. Nobody knew it was THAT bad so nobody knew to do anything.

Now, does the owner have to say anything at all? Absolutely not. But I wonder why he didn't because maybe something could have been done in the meantime.

[Meg Ostrowski]

I bet most of us would prefer not to live close to a fast food drive thru. Sloane McDonald's, Burger King & Taco Bell all have other buildings/space/tracks as buffers between residents.

I bet most of us would like to have a clean, comfortable movie theater in Lakewood and would go if one existed here. The library shows films but the seats aren’t that comfortable for extended use, no food or drink is allowed and you have to be out by 8:30.

I bet most of us would like to preserve at least the façade of the Detroit Theater for historic, aesthetic and sentimental reasons.

But if we want to restore an old theater, should we consider the one at Hilliard Square? It may be in worse shape but its interior is grand in comparison.

If this is too ambitious, could The Beck Center for the Arts add film to their offering in the off season or on select nights? Even offer classes in filmmaking? They have been upgrading their seating one by one through their SOS (Save Our Seats Program). I’d pay for a seat upgrade if they did.

[michael gill]

"Lakewood is at a time in its history that so many inner ring suburbs confront: Left with the dignified vestiges of another era, we attract people with our walkable, bikeable streets, and our old architecture. They come to Lakewood even though that means pouring their money and energy into their homes. Those are some of the greatest minds and most dedicated souls in the city. But we have just about no institutional power to defend the asset that draws them here."

http://gyroscopethattakesyouplaces.word ... reat-city/

[Tim Carroll]

Here is a question that I can't seem to find an answer:


Why is the building housing the Detroit Theater historic?

[Thealexa Becker]

Here is a question that I can't seem to find an answer:


Why is the building housing the Detroit Theater historic?

Good question.

I would guess because it's old.

Old things are automatically historic I guess.

[Bryan Schwegler]

Here is a question that I can't seem to find an answer:


Why is the building housing the Detroit Theater historic?

Great question.

I mentioned this before and I'll say it again, that Lakewoodites often confuse the idea of something actually being a truly historically important building with sentimentality.

It seems that if there are so many historically important buildings that God forbid we ever tear them down despite how outdated or unfeasible they are for new use, that there should be some list of the highly important buildings easily identifiable somewhere right?

People also make the assumption that just because you tear something down automatically means what has to replace it can't fit into the architectural style of Lakewood. There's like this assumption that for some reason new buildings can't be built that fit the style of the city.

The fact is, new construction can very well do that, it happens all the time. Maybe it doesn't happen as much here as it should but I would throw that on the shoulders of the zoning laws and other rules regarding construction and design. Other cities seem to figure this out, not sure why Lakewood can't. If it's important, that needs to happen. But it hasn't seemed important enough for either council nor citizen petition drives to implement. Instead we fumble around being upset any time someone wants to make a change without being able to clearly define what historical really means or even what Lakewood's "style" is.

[Ben VanLear]

Here is a question that I can't seem to find an answer:


Why is the building housing the Detroit Theater historic?

Great question.

I mentioned this before and I'll say it again, that Lakewoodites often confuse the idea of something actually being a truly historically important building with sentimentality.

It seems that if there are so many historically important buildings that God forbid we ever tear them down despite how outdated or unfeasible they are for new use, that there should be some list of the highly important buildings easily identifiable somewhere right?

People also make the assumption that just because you tear something down automatically means what has to replace it can't fit into the architectural style of Lakewood. There's like this assumption that for some reason new buildings can't be built that fit the style of the city.

The fact is, new construction can very well do that, it happens all the time. Maybe it doesn't happen as much here as it should but I would throw that on the shoulders of the zoning laws and other rules regarding construction and design. Other cities seem to figure this out, not sure why Lakewood can't. If it's important, that needs to happen. But it hasn't seemed important enough for either council nor citizen petition drives to implement. Instead we fumble around being upset any time someone wants to make a change without being able to clearly define what historical really means or even what Lakewood's "style" is.

Some good points. But having an official definition of what makes a property Historic in Lakewood doesn't mean what makes a building historic is not subjective(I swear this makes sense).

In fact, some of what makes a property historic IS the popular connection with it.

From the Lakewood ordinance:

(c) Considerations for Designation: In considering the designation of any area, place, building, public interior portion of a building, structure, work of art or other object in the City as an HPD or HP, the Commission shall apply the following criteria with respect to each property. One (1) or more or the following must apply:
(1) The character, interest or value as part of the heritage of the City, the region, State of Ohio or the United States
(2) The location as a site of a significant historic event;
(3) The identification with a person or persons who significantly contributed to the historic development of the City;
(4) An HPD's or HP's exemplification of the cultural, economic, social, archeological, or historic heritage of the City;
(5) The portrayal of the environment of a group of people in an era of history characterized by a distinctive architectural style;
(6) The embodiment of distinguishing historical characteristics of a group of people in an era of history characterized by a distinctive architectural style;
(7) HPD's or HP's identification as the work of an architect or master builder whose individual work has influenced the development of the City;
(8) HPD's or HP's embodiment of elements of architectural design, detail, materials or craftsmanship which represent a significant architectural or technological innovation;
(9) HPD's or HP's unique location or singular physical characteristics representing an established and familiar visual feature of a neighborhood, community or the City, itself at large;
(10) HPD's or HP's having yielded or its likelihood of yielding information important to the understating of pre-history or history.
(d) Additional Considerations for an HPD: In addition to meeting at least one (1) of the above criteria, a proposed HPD must also meet the following criteria in order to be designated an HPD:
(1) The area within the proposed boundaries must have a high degree of historic integrity, without excessive loss of architectural or historic character
(2) The area within the proposed boundaries must have an internal historic cohesiveness in the sense of a shared common history of its inhabitants, historical development according to the Vision, a shared architectural style or design, or a body of architecture illustrating the evolution of architectural styles over a period of time.
(e) Additional Considerations for an HP: In addition to meeting at least one (1) of the criteria listed in subsection (c) above, a proposed HP must also meet the following criteria in order to be designated an HP:
(1) The proposed HP must have a high degree of historic integrity, without excessive loss of architectural or historic character.
(2) The proposed HP must have an internal historic cohesiveness in the sense of a shared common history of its inhabitants, historical development according to the Vision, a shared architectural style or design, or a body of architecture illustrating the evolution of architectural styles over a period of time.
(f) Designation by the Commission: The Commission after obtaining advice from the Heritage Advisory Board may designate certain areas, places, sites, buildings, public interior portions of buildings, structures, works of art and other objects as eligible to become either an HPD or an HP.

I think the Detroit Theatre could easily meet C 1,4,5,6 and 9 (especially). Meets one of those. check.

-The historic character of the Detroit Theatre is a part of the heritage of the City and the fabric of everyday life in lakewood.
-The white terra cotta façade and the marquee mark the Detroit Theatre as an old fashioned neighborhood theatre in one of the various styles of early twentieth century buildings that make Lakewood a historically significant streetcar suburb
-As one of the two remaining theatre buildings in Lakewood, the Detroit Theatre exemplifies the neighborhood, walkable-from-your-front-door culture that is the historic heritage of the city of Lakewood
-There were at least 6 theaters built in Lakewood between 1916 and 1927 and the Detroit is in the best structural condition of the two that remain.
-The singular physical characteristics of the Detroit Theatre’s façade make it an established and familiar visual feature of the neighborhoods around the Detroit-Woodward intersection, and the city itself at-large
-The white terra cotta, the marquee, and the bulk and position of the Detroit Theatre building make it one of the few landmarks along the western half of Detroit Avenue in Lakewood


D&E 1 and 2

-The Detroit Theatre building structure, terra cotta façade, and marquee have a high degree historic integrity and have not lost any of their architectural or historic character.
-The structure remains sound and the façade retains its recognizability and quality
As a continuously operated theater from 1294 to 2011 (except for three years during World War II) the Detroit Theatre has an inherent cohesiveness and shared common history with it’s various owners and operators, as well as with the residents of Lakewood.


To your last point, Bryan, I have contacted each member of city council on that very point. I completely agree. However, in conjunction with that I think we do need more restrictions on demolishing or significantly changing our streetcar era commercial buildings. Modern buildings, even those that fit the architectural style of lakewood, are not the same as the originals. I want to preserve at least some of what lakewood was.

More good stuff on gyroscopethattakesyouplaces today
http://gyroscopethattakesyouplaces.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/the-dignified-vestiges-of-a-great-city/

[Bryan Schwegler]

Modern buildings, even those that fit the architectural style of lakewood, are not the same as the originals. I want to preserve at least some of what lakewood was.

I totally agree with this, with an exception that as long as the original building is actually feasible to use for a modern use and isn't in a condition which creates a barrier to new business because of the cost to renovate it far outweighs the cost to tear down and rebuild.

But I do think if a rebuild is happening, the architectural style needs to be consistent and those rules need to be clearly defined in our code, which they don't appear to be today.

There are quite a few buildings in Lakewood which I don't think fit the character. Everything from Grant Elementary to City Hall to Lakewood Center North. We need to decide what is the character of Lakewood's buildings should be, and that character needs to be enforced by law. Until that's clearly spelled out and we go through this drama every time someone wants to do something in Lakewood, it just continues to make Lakewood an unpredictable and hostile place for companies to consider doing business here.

[Will Brown]

Could we bring back the streetcar rails; I think they are still there, buried under all the unLakewoodlike paving. We could easily restore the overhead wiring and have some nice spark shows. And all this airconditioning is incompatible with the Lakewood look and feel, not to mention this deplorable trend for eateries to have outside tables. What is the Hystorical Society doing to protect us from the modern world? That new library is an affront to the character of Detroit avenue.

[Thealexa Becker]

I personally see absolutely nothing special about that building, other than it used to be a place to see movies. Distinct facade? Where? It looks like a generic structure.

I never went by that place and went "Wow! Look at that! Isn't that interesting?"

Because it isn't.

So if you are going to argue that we need to keep the building around, perhaps something stronger than, "it's old and interesting!" would be a better standpoint.

[J Hrlec]

I personally see absolutely nothing special about that building, other than it used to be a place to see movies. Distinct facade? Where? It looks like a generic structure.

I never went by that place and went "Wow! Look at that! Isn't that interesting?"

Because it isn't.

So if you are going to argue that we need to keep the building around, perhaps something stronger than, "it's old and interesting!" would be a better standpoint.

I would agree with this. For 3+ decades I never once said... boy that Detroit Theater building really symbolizes Lakewood and its history, nor have I heard anyone say anything remotely similar. I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but i have never seen or heard them.

Of course... I think many speaking on the topic may be "historic" themselves, so I am not sure this is the case but rather it was something that has been around since they were younger.