Future of Detroit Theater meeting was packed

[Betsy Voinovich]

Kevin Butler takes the floor. Lining the walls are Councilpersons David Anderson and Monique Smith, with Dru Siley and Mayor Summers looking on. Yes those are people sitting in the aisles, and on the floor.

Great meeting tonight at the library. The main auditorium was packed with people spilling into the halls, lining the walls and sitting on the floor.

Mayor Summers, Law Director Butler, and councilpersons Anderson, Bullock and Smith were there, along with representatives from McDonald's.

The mayor opened the meeting with some facts about Lakewood, making the point that it had been a built out city since 1949 and that with 98 people per square mile anything anybody tries to do requires jostling. Dru Siley shared information about the kind of responsible development the City tries to do, describing the kinds of a control the City could have. Both the mayor and Director Siley stressed that the City could not stop a real estate transfer.

One point that Mr. Siley made quite clearly was that Lakewood is a bedroom community, a residential community and that in Lakewood, Economic Development IS housing.

From there they went to the details about the Detroit Theater/McDonald's deal, the first fact that was revealed is that McDonalds has not yet purchased the property and everyone stressed that this was in its most early stages of planning and that there would be many more opportunities for community involvement going forward IF the deal went forward.

It was clear however that the McDonalds representatives were very serious about their intentions. They also made it very clear that it would not be in their best interests to build a McDonalds in the existing structure of the theater, or to keep the facade. They made the point that the McDonalds had to look like a McDonalds because their customers are "impulse buyers"-- a point that was really funny, given the implication that if their buyers really thought about it, they wouldn't go there. They were to be commended on their straightforwardness, as were the City officials.

People rose to talk about the detrimental effects this food would have on the children, particularly from Harding who would have to walk right past it, and are the targeted impulse buyers who have a small amount of money and would be attracted by a dollar value meal.

Residents from around the theater made the point that there was no way that the presence of a McDonalds wouldn't have a detrimental effect on their housing values. Who would want to buy a house close to that?

Michael Gill was quite eloquent in describing what made Lakewood a place that people would want to live and compared it to other unique neighborhoods like Tremont and Gordon Square, pointing out that in those communities, they capitalized on the historic nature of the neighborhoods and the building themselves, investing in WHAT IS THERE, investing in their history. He said we go on about how walkable our community is but if we keep tearing down what makes it unique and replacing those buildings with businesses designed for highway exits, it will not be walkable anymore.

This is one of several times during the night that the room erupted in applause.

Many MANY Deck posters were there and hopefully they will come on with their impressions.

I was very proud to be a member of this community tonight, because of all of the energy brought together to try to make good decisions for this city and its future. As Drew Siley said, some Planning Directors wait for phone calls, here people care so much they pack rooms to discuss what is happening.

One of the last to speak was Charles Milsaps of the relatively newly formed "Save the Detroit Theater" group. He proposed that the citizens buy the theater, for ourselves, and use it as a theater, along the lines of a Cedar Lee Theater-- one that suits the unique needs of Lakewood, as determined by its citizens.

He was one of many who spoke up and asked what next steps should be. Many asked about whether McDonalds could be made to back away from their offer if another offer that was more appealing to the citizens, and the idea of the kind of city we would like Lakewood to continue to be, were brought forward. There was talk of petitions and groups getting together, and requests that the city make a request for RFP's-- requests for proposals-- as they have with some of our ex-car lots.

All in all, a provocative, high energy meeting with many great ideas, many concerned citizens who have just begun to think and act and get together.

Betsy Voinovich


http://media.lakewoodobserver.com/image ... _36974.jpg

[Betsy Voinovich]

I had to check on my kids as Charles Milsap was beginning to talk. Here is the text of his speech:

We are here tonight to save our history. We were born here or have chose to live here because of the many exceptional and divers characteristics Lakewood has to offer. One of those great characteristics is the historic nature of the homes, businesses and the community. Replacing historic buildings with fast food chains is not why we live here. It’s not the Lakewood we know, It’s not who we are.

So often we look at old pictures of Lakewood online or here at the library, and we see amazing photos of what we used to have here 60, 80,100 years ago. And then realize what now stands where the grand old structure once stood. We see brick box condos replacing grand estates on Lake Avenue, We see a drug store where a great Church once stood, and we see parking lots where grand old theaters once entertained. And So often the first thing we think when realizing what we have already lost, is, what were they thinking, in 1950, tearing down those grand homes to build boring boxy condos, what were they thinking in 1960 raising a church to build yet another drug store, and what were they thinking erasing our history for a parking lot…? What were they thinking…

We now stand at one of those moments. To stop and THINK. It is our decision to make, it is our test to fail. Will we look back in 30 years and ask, What were we thinking…. Will our children, nieces and nephews, and grandchildren ask us to take them to the Detroit Theater, or will one day simply ask us, what is a Detroit Theater…?

Now to the reality of our current situation.
The Detroit Theater is closed and the historic building is up for sale.
McDonalds thinks the land would make a great location for yet another fast food restaurant in our neighborhood.
We disagree…
Mr. Barr would like to sell the Theater property…
McDonalds would like to buy it…

But what if someone else wanted to buy the Theater and reopen it as a family neighborhood theater.
What if a historic preservation group wanted to buy the theater and restore it to a single screen movie house, update the seats, restrooms, and concessions?
What if we had the chance to change the future. What if we took a moment to THINK, and never had to ask, What were we thinking…..

My plan is this;
The preservations and restoration group I formed years ago will buy the Theater. Apply to have the Theater placed on the National Registry of Historic places, and restore and update the Theater, through historic tax credits, grants, sponsorships, and donations.
We will then find a suitable operator for the Theater, or form a new Company to operate the theater the way we, the neighborhood, would like to see it run.

We are not here tonight, standing in the way of progress or new business. I for one, hope that McDonalds find a suitable location to operate. Although, I’m not sure they will find more suitable location than there current location on Sloan Ave. We are here tonight to defend our history. We are here tonight to ask everyone involved to stop and THINK, to consider all possibilities, and to give us a chance to save our history.

This is Lakewood, this is who we are.

Thank You for allowing me to speak tonight.

[Bill Call]

My plan is this;
The preservations and restoration group I formed years ago will buy the Theater. Apply to have the Theater placed on the National Registry of Historic places, and restore and update the Theater, through historic tax credits, grants, sponsorships, and donations.
We will then find a suitable operator for the Theater, or form a new Company to operate the theater the way we, the neighborhood, would like to see it run.

Excellent reporting.

Your plan is not going to happen. Such a structure would be in direct competion with the Capital Theater and would jeopardize its financial viability. The government institutions that provided millions in tax dollars for that facility won't want to see it put at risk. The day they announced the Gordon Square project was the day the Detroit theater was scheduled to close.

If the City wants to stop the McDonalds all they have to do is ban drive thru windows in all new restaurants.

I think the McDonalds should be built on the site of Edwards Park in exchange for enough money to buy the Bonnieview Apartments and convert the site to a new Edwards Park. Of course that's not going to happen either which leaves us with the most likely outcome:

A brand new McDonalds with 2 drive thru windows operating until 3 AM at the site of what use to be the Detroit Theater.

[Bryan Schwegler]

Your plan is not going to happen. Such a structure would be in direct competion with the Capital Theater and would jeopardize its financial viability.

Bill, you've never explained how it it's in direct competition. The theater doesn't show the same type of movies, it has a different audience target. How are they direct competitors?

[J Hrlec]

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2011/06/lakewood_residents_express_con.html

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
Did anyone say what would become of the existing McDs structure on Sloane? I assume someone from the Planning Dept. was there.

While at one time all McDs looked the same now days, they can look quite different. I'm not sure when the City would begin discussing with McDs what they would like to see on the property, but I would think McDs would want to know their plans would be ok before the property was purchased. I wish someone from the City acknowledged they are in a powerful position on determining what was actually built here. How about saying we want the greenest McDs in the World put up and it should pay homage to the old Detroit Theater.

Lakewood does not need to be thought of as a built out community, as the Mayor described it. There have been plans presented to grow Lakewood by 26 acres, but it could be expanded by as many acres as desired. Vision is needed. I'll bet McDs would love to be a part of that!

[J Hrlec]

Hi,
Did anyone say what would become of the existing McDs structure on Sloane?

I think they will turn it into a movie theater

[Mark Mraz]

Putting a McDonalds where the theater is like someone saying... "You know what we need on the Vegas strip, another 4,000 room hotel!!!"

If your fat kids want hamburgers, they can walk their fat butts to Burger King....

[Bill Call]

Your plan is not going to happen. Such a structure would be in direct competion with the Capital Theater and would jeopardize its financial viability.

Bill, you've never explained how it it's in direct competition. The theater doesn't show the same type of movies, it has a different audience target. How are they direct competitors?

The Capital Theater is featuring:

http://www.clevelandcinemas.com/cinemad ... ntCin=2941

the same movies that would be showing at the Detroit. The Capital also features the same type of movies shown at the Cedar Lee and tries to market the theater with the restaurants and live theater at Gordon Square. They also market discounts and special features for Lakewood residents.

The last time I went to a movie I went to the Capital even though the same movie was showing at the Detroit. The Green Lantern will be showing at the Capital Theater starting on June 17th in 3D. Could the Detroit Theater compete with that? I'd like to see the movie and if the movie was showing at the Detroit I'd still be going to the Capital Theater.

A private company can't compete with a taxpayer subsidized company.

Any efforts to save the Detroit are coming 5 years to late. Who has the $10 million to renovate the Detroit Theater? Who has the millions needed to subsidize its operation?

After all the Sturm und Drang the McDonalds will be built on the site of the Detroit Theater.

At the time the Gordon Square project was announced secret plans were also underway to relocate the Beck Center to Crocker Park. Political pressure put a stop to that but just in the nick of time.

If those tens of millions were spent on renovating the still living Detroit Theater and street improvements on Detroit Avenue from Westwood to Webb would the Capital Theater exist? Would the Beck have been planning to move to Westlake?

Of course Lakewood is not being totally neglected. Mental Health Services is expanding its homeless resettlement program to include more apartments in Lakewood.

[Will Brown]

A private company can't compete with a taxpayer subsidized company.

That is complete nonsense. UPS and FedEx deliver faster than the USPS, and make money. The USPS loses money and has always lost money. State schools are rarely competitive with private schools. I would think any subsidy would come with a degree of control, and that would stifle initiative. We would be better of searching out these subsidies and eliminating them; let the Browns and Indians build their own stadia.

[David Brainard]

Money talks.
Yet another one-story building on Detroit continuing Lakewood's transformation into a ghastly Strongsville.

-30-

[Roy Pitchford]

A private company can't compete with a taxpayer subsidized company.

That is complete nonsense. UPS and FedEx deliver faster than the USPS, and make money. The USPS loses money and has always lost money. State schools are rarely competitive with private schools. I would think any subsidy would come with a degree of control, and that would stifle initiative. We would be better of searching out these subsidies and eliminating them; let the Browns and Indians build their own stadia.

When you look at subsidized companies, they run tax-free, rent-free, dividend-free in direct competition with non-government businesses that economically have higher costs due to those things I've just mentioned. As a result, they must find ways to reduce their costs OR provide a superior product.

I just did a quick look at UPS's shipping rates, for a letter. I think it illustrates my point quite well:
What the USPS does for a flat 44 cents (the result of not having a true bottom-line they need to worry about), UPS has significantly higher rates. If I used UPS to ship a letter from Lakewood to New York, the minimum I'm paying is $17 and they don't even offer anything slower than 2 days.
They ship faster because the USPS can't. That's their superior product.

My apologizes for going off on a tangent...
I don't want to see the Detroit Theater go anywhere. I'd love to see it rehabbed and re-opened, but who has the deep pockets to undertake something like that?
However, there is a certain economic reality that must be accepted. I haven't seen a movie at the "Detroit 2 Dollar" as I've long called it, in well over a decade (The Phantom Menace in summer of 1999...I think I've still got the ticket stub somewhere). How many of us can say the same? Would rehabbing it be economically viable? Wouldn't it be better to have a strong business in place of an empty building?

Also, is this really about the theater going or about the business that wants to come in? Would people be complaining as much if it was...a Whole Foods?

Putting a McDonalds where the theater is like someone saying... "You know what we need on the Vegas strip, another 4,000 room hotel!!!"

No, that's if CVS, Medic, Drug Mart, Osco or Walgreens wanted to buy that land. We've probably got more drug stores per capita than anywhere in the world.

[Thealexa Becker]

I don't want to see the Detroit Theater go anywhere. I'd love to see it rehabbed and re-opened, but who has the deep pockets to undertake something like that?
However, there is a certain economic reality that must be accepted. I haven't seen a movie at the "Detroit 2 Dollar" as I've long called it, in well over a decade (The Phantom Menace in summer of 1999...I think I've still got the ticket stub somewhere). How many of us can say the same? Would rehabbing it be economically viable? Wouldn't it be better to have a strong business in place of an empty building?

Also, is this really about the theater going or about the business that wants to come in? Would people be complaining as much if it was...a Whole Foods?

I could not agree with this more.

Look at what people are complaining about for what it is.

People are upset because they don't like McDonalds. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but really, what would you do with that property otherwise? Let it sit there? Preserve it? Renovate it and reopen it? WHY?

Why do you all care so much about this particular building? How about all those multitudes of people who showed up at that meeting put forth all of their self-righteous anger at McDonalds towards filling up empty storefronts on other parts of Detroit?

I know the part of Detroit where I live has so many empty store fronts it would be a ghost town by Old West standards. So stop complaining about a vacancy being filled and get angry about other empty properties. I will be upset if someone suddenly starts fundraising to save the theater from McDonalds and wastes all that time and money rather than use those same resources to get more businesses in Lakewood.

This is going to sound very cold, but I think this is only drawing so much attention and concern because it is dramatic. People love drama, love stirring it up, love inventing crises where there aren't any and love getting indignent where they have no business being so. Why aren't people upset that we don't have more clothing stores, or bookstores, or other businesses in Lakewood? Because it isn't a headline story whoring itself out for attention like this is.

Frankly, I'm sick of this debate because its coming down to nostalgia versus practicality. And I don't think half of the people arguing for the theater realize how strange they sound in the end to a college student, who spends most of her year in a vibrant, viable college town that Lakewood could only dream of being at this point. It isn't like Lakewood in this economy has the luxury of being picky when it comes to businesses. We aren't that successful a community economically to boast that, so stop pretending that we are. Stop turning your noses up because it's a McDonalds.

And if everyone loved the theater so much, how come whenever I went to see a movie, there was NO ONE THERE? It isn't like you all can claim to be star patrons of the theater. So again, why does it matter to you? And historical value is a weak argument. If it didn't work for keeping the church open, it isn't going to work for that building. (Property values don't go up with vacant lots near you either, just FYI).

And on an aside, whoever said that McDonalds is dangerous to children because they impulse buy cheap food needs to re-examine their parenting. Children don't impulse buy because it's there, they impulse buy because their parents haven't taught them any better.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Thealexa/Roy

A couple major differences between Whole Foods and Mickey Ds. Drive through. Hours of operation, and smell.

I was living on Gladys when the Burger King came in. I cannot believe the change in the
neighborhood, and I am a guy who does not mind an occasional whopper junior. The smell
of Burger King hung in the air for blocks. God only knows what it was doing inside our
bodies our outside to the houses. I have to believe if you can smell burned grease, it is
there. Then on nice quiet nights instead of crickets, you would hear the crackle of "Can I
help you..." accompanied by the occasional loud car, and the burger king wrappers you started to see all over the neighborhood.

I do not see the same problem with a Whole Foods, with WF it would just be people in their
SUVs driving miles for dolphin safe tuna, and organic heirloom tomatoes brought in from Chile.

But yesterday at our Collinwood Observer meeting in NorthEast Shores' offices I could not
help but notice their 3-5 year plan and 5 - 10 year plan.



Where they clearly list and identify what businesses can go where, how far they are willing
to encroach what on residents, and a generally feeling of what they are trying to accomplish. Now those that are not familiar with Collinwood, should go out and drive
around. The Collinwood Arts Festival is coming up last Saturday of the month, and take
a half of day and take in the sights and sounds of Collinwood. Wlak the much heralded
Collinwood Arts District, go down to the lake Rosewood Park I believe, check out the
homes as they say over there "NOL" (North of Lakeshore), have dinner at Scotti's. Then
come home and think about what we have here.

The biggest difference is the beach, and they have a plan, a concept, and while at times
I think there are willing to accept anything. I also know they would not accept anything
that harms or changes the Arts District, the housing areas they are working so hard to
improve and retain, and believe me, nothing is going in "NOL."

Now Collinwood, for all of the things I like about it has some areas of severe poverty. It
is home to one of the few areas in Cleveland I do a gut check before walking around. It
has amazing potential and amazing problems. But it is the only community in Cleveland
that has had no schools close, dedicated to education. No rec centers or police stations
close, dedicated to safety, and are building a massive rec center, while on both sides
rec centers are closing. Why, Mike Polensak, and the crazy hardwork and planning of
NorthEast Shores, Knottingham Estates, and Collinwood Arts, that do much more than
put their names on things, and have parties.

Lakewood, best community in the region, one of the 10 coolest places on the face of the
earth can do better, needs to do better, and we need to cash in right now while we can.
Not on what everyone else has, to blend in and disappear in the region but to emerge as
the "star" everyone claims we are. As I often point out, The Rolling Stones still do Bar Mitzvahs, they just set the bar so high, they can do them on their terms.

What are our terms? What can we push and still attract worthwhile, sane and responsible
economic development? What is our major industry? If you think it is the Clinic, we are
screwed. If you think it is a place to put great retail economic development, we are screwed.
If you think it is great affordable housing, with good schools, library, restaurants, parks,
activities, and the lake. Well, this makes the entire problem, nothing more than a small
bump in the road, and we are nearly there.

For some strange reason(not really) we have been sold a false bill of goods by many of our
civic leaders and business leaders. We have been told Economic Development is the key to
our future and success. This demands nearly a 180 degree turn from what we have been
getting so many accolades for. It goes against why we stand out in the region. It goes
against what makes us Lakewood. But it certainly serves the "regional" good. After all a
region cannot afford "self rule" individuality, it needs the residents to believe their only
hope for a future is to fall in line. And this is from the same people telling us ED is the
only way to secure our future.

Lakewood needs a plan(s). Lakewood needs to look in the mirror and say, "We are good
enough, smart enough, and ahead of the region."

FWIW


.

[Thealexa Becker]

Lakewood, best community in the region, one of the 10 coolest places on the face of the
earth can do better, needs to do better, and we need to cash in right now while we can.
Not on what everyone else has, to blend in and disappear in the region but to emerge as
the "star" everyone claims we are. As I often point out, The Rolling Stones still do Bar Mitzvahs, they just set the bar so high, they can do them on their terms.

What are our terms? What can we push and still attract worthwhile, sane and responsible
economic development? What is our major industry? If you think it is the Clinic, we are
screwed. If you think it is a place to put great retail economic development, we are screwed.
If you think it is great affordable housing, with good schools, library, restaurants, parks,
activities, and the lake. Well, this makes the entire problem, nothing more than a small
bump in the road, and we are nearly there.

For some strange reason(not really) we have been sold a false bill of goods by many of our
civic leaders and business leaders. We have been told Economic Development is the key to
our future and success. This demands nearly a 180 degree turn from what we have been
getting so many accolades for. It goes against why we stand out in the region. It goes
against what makes us Lakewood. But it certainly serves the "regional" good. After all a
region cannot afford "self rule" individuality, it needs the residents to believe their only
hope for a future is to fall in line. And this is from the same people telling us ED is the
only way to secure our future.

Lakewood needs a plan(s). Lakewood needs to look in the mirror and say, "We are good
enough, smart enough, and ahead of the region."

FWIW


.

I appreciate your insight on Collinwood, but while you have your own reasons to feel the way you do, you did not address many of my issues with this debate.

Lakewood, by the way, is not one of the coolest places on the face of the earth, just one of the 10 coolest suburbs in America. I'm very pro Lakewood, but let's not overinflate our sense of our own importance shall we? Especially since then it makes people act entitled and snobbish when they shouldn't.

As for your issues with Economic Development, I wonder what exactly you think Lakewood should do with all the empty developed space? Convert it to outdoor dining like Collinwood? I mean really.

Economic Development is essential. There any many kinds of businesses that could be attracted here if everyone would get their head on straight. There are groups in the city that have had success with getting small business going (Lakewood Alive for one, and Im sure there are others) but if every single time a new business opens, supported by a Lakewwod group or not, there is this kind of suspicion and outcry, do you think that more businesses will come here? If I'm a chain retailer, say women's clothing, and I see what everyone is doing to the McDonalds idea, I would reconsider coming here, lest I infuriate someone for some reason or go into a building that someone is attached too.

The fact is there are very few people in Lakewood who really see the big picture and see that in order to stay a viable community, there are things that need to be done. And we can't just keep capitalizing off our hipster status forever. One of things you need to do is get more business. YOU CANNOT BE SO PICKY.

Jim, you keep talking about Lakewood's strengths. What specifically do you mean? And by that I am asking what as far as Lakewood's development do you mean. Saying we have a strong sense of family, etc. is not going to attract businesses or spur growth. I'm sure all our empty space on Detroit is a great attraction.

But I stand by my previous post. This debate is getting old and tired. It's a done deal. Move on. If you loved the theater you should have patronized it or done something sooner. You only know what you've lost once it's gone. Etc.

If you really want something to complain about something, complain about the empty storefronts.