Is McDonald's REALLY best use for Detroit Theater property?

[Jim O'Bryan]

As I've said earlier here, sellers, buyers, and the zoning people are going to determine what goes in this spot. But why are we objecting to it looking the best that it can look and blend in with the neighborhood? That is my question. Somebody please answer me.

Mike

I think there it is a fair discussion, if not just for the singular event for the larger picture of
what goes on in Lakewood and our neighborhoods. And in truth all of these discussions
currently going on in the deck and very intertwined.

I have watched many of Lakewood's finest become somewhat ADD, and bipolar in their
thoughts and directions. I remember the stir and outrage over the Lombardo mansion to
see it die down, and get filed away until, the Holtkamp house on Detroit, then get filed away
until the Heildoff House, then get filed away until the Detroit Theater, Westwood, etc.

So the question is, "Do Lakewoodites and Businesses really care about historically
significant or not?" Or is it just a way to pass the time. Do we care about saving homes
or have we gotten to just looking for reasons to tear them down? Do we respect 100
year-old neighborhoods, or do we cater to CVS and McDonalds? Do we want parks for our
dogs, or do we want beaches for our families? Do residents have a say, or do businesses
have the final say, or does an appointed adhoc group, that might not understand the
dynamics of a community have the final say?

Discussion is good, it educates, defines, and helps other understand parts they might not
have understood before. Discussion is education, if not in the subjects, certainly in the
ones having the discussions.

Yesterday I spent time talking with Dru Siley, "Interim" Planning Director about Lakewood
and we talked of historic buildings worth saving in Lakewood. Actually it was was more
what makes a building worth saving, or working with. Is it the building or the neighborhood?
Very interesting dynamics, which get us back to where we started, Shiny objects, ADD,
and a community's bipolar life. One idea that was presented by LakewoodAlive years ago
was tearing down homes, marrying properties and rebuilding larger more modern homes.
An idea I liked, until you start to remember how Lakewood all but refused funerals so that
our body count for the Census was over 50,000. Do we reduce housing, and forget the
census? Do we reduce housing but work to bring in more group homes? Do we not care
about 50,001 residents and go it alone with business?

The Detroit discussion may be moot on that piece of property, but it is certainly valuable
in the entire life of the city.

FWIW


.

[Bryan Schwegler]

Jim, the problem isn't historicity and the importance of historic preservation, it's defining what that means.

The trouble that I often see when it comes to buildings in Lakewood is people often seem to confuse historically significant with "I have good memories from spending time there". If we want to be serious about preserving historically significant buildings, we have to begin by clearly defining what that means otherwise we're doomed to go in these circles every time a tear-down is proposed.

[Mike Coleman]

I agree wholeheartedly, Bryan. There is a line between historical and keepsake that is often crossed when it comes to building preservation. Historical is historical. Keepsakes are things that you don't want to get rid of but eventually get dusty and thrown away or sold at a yard sale by your grandkids after you die. Cities don't need keepsakes posing as historical.

[michael gill]

Even though all this is at the stage of rumors and gossip, it seems like the city and neighborhood have been caught flat-footed. We talk a lot about our streetcar era city and its history, how that charm distinguishes it and gives Lakewood a fighting chance against wealthier, newer, more homogenous suburbs. But beyond identifying properties for commercial, residential, multifamily, and so on, our zoning code doesn’t give us much help in maintaining the appeal of history.

Still, there are things neighborhoods –given the organization and motivation--can do, and have done around the area. Likewise, there are things cities and CDCs can do, given the will and a plan.

http://gyroscopethattakesyouplaces.word ... ghborhood/

I agree that not every old building is worth saving. There was a little frame house built during the civil war by Matthew Hall, one of the city's early and significant land-owning families, which once had very big houses were Edwards Park and the YMCA now stand. The Matthew Hall house --formerly across Detroit from the Y--wasn't much to look at, but it was one of the oldest structures in the city, predating most buildings in town by half a century. Was that worth saving?

We don't have nearly as many commercial buildings as houses, and because they are located on our main streets, they are more prominent. I think commercial buildings that date to the Streetcar Era (which defined our city's layout and architectural style) are inherently worth a look. I think buildings with distinctive architectural features deserve additional attention, and the Detroit's white terra cotta facade qualifies. I also think that buildings where large numbers of people were meant to gather also have the status that goes with shared, popular experience. I think calling something historic only if some important person was born or assasinated there, or if some important document was signed there gives a short sighted, names-and-dates-only view of history. I think it short-changes our lives.

Somewhere in the city—maybe ARB, maybe Heritage Advisory, maybe Historical Society—there’s an inventory of significant commercial buildings. Anybody know about that?

[Michael Loje]

Will Brown wrote:
" I rarely eat at McDonald's and don't really care if they locate there or not, but I do care that some people with special interests feel they have a right to impose their own zoning on someone else's property, and imply that they represent the people of Lakewood in this scheme."
Will, what special interests do you see at work here?

[Ben VanLear]

Community forum to discuss the Detroit Theater property, and McDonald's interest in it on Wednesday, June 15th at 7pm in the Main Library Auditorium.

Apparently the Detroit Theater is McDonald's prime interest for their move to Detroit ave.

[Betsy Voinovich]

Community forum to discuss the Detroit Theater property, and McDonald's interest in it on Wednesday, June 15th at 7pm in the Main Library Auditorium.

Apparently the Detroit Theater is McDonald's prime interest for their move to Detroit ave.

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the heads-up. This sounds a little ominous. Where did you find out this information? I haven't heard anything about a community meeting, in fact in the current edition of the Lakewood Observer, under Chris Bindel's Lakewood City News column in which he covers the latest City Council meeting, the mayor is quoted as saying that McDonald's is looking at a lot of different places and IF it ever comes to pass that McDonalds' interest is serious, he would make sure to set up a meeting with the neighborhood and the developers to discuss the project.

It sounds like IF is WHEN.

I'm copying the section of Chris' article below. The issue came up because during the Public Communication portion of the meeting, a Woodward resident expressed her fear over what would happen if McDonalds moved into the Detroit Theater location.

"The Mayor...said that the Detroit Theater has been for sale for 10 years but only after recently closing has there seemed to be any urgency to find a buyer. Although McDonalds is showing interest in the property, the Mayor said that they are a company that takes a lot of time and does their research before opening a new store. Also they tend to look into many places at once, so it is still hard to say what they are thinking. He then tried to reassure the Woodward residents that, although the City is limited in what it can do to stop a business from opening, the City can hold a large amount of influence during the planning stages. They can help them decide on structure design, traffic patterns, hours of operation and other things that will have less of an impact on the neighborhood. Lastly he said that if he were to find out that McDonalds was in fact interested in pursuing that location that he would set up a meeting for anyone in the surrounding neighborhoods to meet with the developers to discuss the project."


You can read the whole article here:

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/read/20 ... using-code

Betsy Voinovich

[Matthew Lee]

There is definitely a community meeting on June 15th. We received a paper notice on our door yesterday evening. I can probably copy and paste the whole thing but the key notes are that the meeting is on the 15th at 7 PM EDT in the Main Library auditorium (lower level).

Somehow, this whole things feels like a fait accompli and I am very disappointed in our leadership (or lack thereof).

I hope to attend but, if not, I'm assuming the McDonalds is going to move. My biggest ongoing concern is "What is the plan for Lakewood?". Is there even a master plan? Have we given a rational thought to 1 year later? 5? 10?

We seem to be very reactionary and not proactive at all.

Just my thoughts.

[Betsy Voinovich]

There is definitely a community meeting on June 15th. We received a paper notice on our door yesterday evening. I can probably copy and paste the whole thing but the key notes are that the meeting is on the 15th at 7 PM EDT in the Main Library auditorium (lower level).

Somehow, this whole things feels like a fait accompli and I am very disappointed in our leadership (or lack thereof).

I hope to attend but, if not, I'm assuming the McDonalds is going to move. My biggest ongoing concern is "What is the plan for Lakewood?". Is there even a master plan? Have we given a rational thought to 1 year later? 5? 10?

We seem to be very reactionary and not proactive at all.

Just my thoughts.

Hi Matt,

Yeah, this meeting kind of has a "consolation prize" vibe.

"But you can help plan it!"

Okay, no drive-thru, no grease in the air, no night-time hours, no big outdoor lights, keep the movie screens, so we can eat our Happy Meals while watching Warner Brothers cartoons, or kids' movies. Use J. Hrlec's design which keeps the front facade of the theater and the marquee.

Maybe McDonalds would like to talk. There are grants available to fund science projects for kids that use movie theaters to show "science movies" like zombie movies, or alien movies, etc, and afterward there are lectures, labs and crafts that teach the real science behind the movie-- like bio-technology after Frankenstein, and classes about cryongenics. Maybe McDonalds would provide the food. But then if it's for our kids, we'd want the food to be healthy. Maybe we could get them to promise to provide healthy food.

As Mike Gill and others point out, we have no one here to look out for us and no plan. We PAID Five Guys to come here with Community Development Block Grant money. (You can look it up. If you look really really hard.) It has really helped develop the community don't you think? Whose idea was that? I loved going to the Party Center that used to be in that space. I wonder how they're doing out on Center Ridge road? I hate the humid cloud of grease that hits me in the face as I exit the Root coming at me from Five Guys along with a blast of Rolling Stones music that the employees must be cleaning to, because there's never very many people in there. (And I know there are those that love their burgers. It's a great place to take a short drive to, like in another town. It could be right next to the Quaker Steak and Lube, oh wait, that'll be right here too. Lakewood will be visible from the sky as a cloud of grease. That's so cool!!!)

But I digress? Maybe not. All of this seems to be about the same thing.

Betsy Voinovich

p.s. Yes, Matt, please post the flyer. The fact that it was only distributed in your neighborhood indicates that the city doesn't feel like the rest of us care, or need to know about, or attend this meeting, only the residents near the McDonald's care. The rest of us care about losing the theater. We care about bad affordable food under the noses of our kids after they play baseball across the street.(One of the comments that came from students at the LHS Youth Forum: "All there is to do here is eat and get fat.") That notice should go to the whole city. We are a small town, we recognize that what happens to one neighborhood will easily happen in the next, and I make a plea here for everyone to come out and support Jammy Buggers because it is REALLY COOL and owned and created by a Lakewoodite with the THE COMMUNITY IN MIND!!! like The Root. The food is healthy and we are so LUCKY it's here instead of yet another grease chain. -- The pork sliders are tremendous. The brie dish is the best one I've ever had. And I believe the Derby pie has already been mentioned. Let me just say, it's like pecan pie, with chocolate and caramel added. And maybe I am digressing at this point, but it's great to end a post on such a happy note. Great pie! No grease! Not expensive!

[Ben VanLear]

Saw this last night on a telephone pole by RiteAid.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Full Disclosure: my camera phone sucks and I suck as a photographer

[Matthew Lee]

Hi Ben, thanks for posting. I think there are actually two issues at play and we (as concerned citizens) need to be careful about not confusing the issue:

(1) Are we opposed to a McDonald's being built there?

or

(2) Are we opposed to a McDonald's REPLACING the Detroit Theater?

This is very important because unless we are in agreement, we will come off as fragmented and can be easily dismissed by the city. Is it about replacing the theater? Or is it about a McDonalds on that site?

I can only speak for myself personally, and very selfishly, but I am ok with the theater being replaced. I wish it could have worked but it didn't. What I am NOT ok with is a McDonalds going in that already busy area with lots of children walking and greasy smells and the noise from a drive through.

Couldn't we find something better to go in to that spot? How does moving a McDonalds from one end of Lakewood to another help Lakewood as a city?

Hope that makes sense.

Matthew

[Will Brown]

Couldn't we find something better to go in to that spot? How does moving a McDonalds from one end of Lakewood to another help Lakewood as a city?

Hope that makes sense.

Matthew

I agree that trying to preserve a failed movie theater is beating a dead horse. Local movie theaters are a failing industry, not just here, but almost everywhere.

I think you misconstrue (perhaps intentionally) the situation with McDonalds. If their location on Sloan worked, they wouldn't be considering closing it. If they close it, they will build in what their studies say is a potentially profitable location, but that doesn't have to be in Lakewood. So if their old location is to be closed, a new location in Lakewood means new jobs and tax revenue in Lakewood. If they decide to build in Rocky River, that will mean jobs and tax revenue for Rocky River. So it makes sense for Lakewood to encourage them to build here, even as they are closing a location here.

As to their food, I don't think they are the only people selling that type of food, and no one seems to complain about the others. McDonalds has been wildly successful and their size makes them a tempting target for people who want to dictate what other people can eat; I don't doubt that over the years many small diners have closed because they could not compete with McDonalds. But I doubt McDonalds is smellier or noisier than many other chains.

But if you are so concerned about this situation, you could always buy the property yourself and use it for any compliant purpose.

[Bill Grulich]

McDonald's To Tear Down Akron Church

Is nothing sacred?

Maybe McDonald's could take one of Lakewood's fine churches instead of the Detroit Theater. In today's Akron Beacon Journal http://www.ohio.com/news/local/akron-ch ... x-1.231715

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed Church!

No sacred cows here, nothing to see, move along.

[Thealexa Becker]

McDonald's To Tear Down Akron Church

Is nothing sacred?

Maybe McDonald's could take one of Lakewood's fine churches instead of the Detroit Theater. In today's Akron Beacon Journal http://www.ohio.com/news/local/akron-ch ... x-1.231715

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed Church!

No sacred cows here, nothing to see, move along.

Was the property for sale? Yes.

Did McDonalds legally purchase it? Yes.

Are people upset about it? Maybe, but you might be more upset than they are.

If you read that article and don't just read the headline and the first paragraph, you might notice that the city officials are happy about the development of VACANT property. That church was NOT occupied and they were not impassioned against McDonalds buying it.

The people quoted in the article saw this as a positive step for the community because it was retail in an area leading up to their downtown business district. Nearby business owners seemed pleased with this.

It's not as dramatic as you are making it out to be.

The church was obviously not doing anything but sitting there, why shouldn't they sell it to McDonalds? What reason other than "it used to be an active church?" I bet that most truly religious people will tell you it isn't the specific space that makes worship and faith important, but the people and the practice of that religion.

Incindiary as it may well be, I would love it if some businesses would come and buy the vacant church lots in Lakewood if no other congregations intend to move there and they are not reopened. Because what else are they going to do? Stand there are forlorn reminders to the community?

I have said and will continue to say about the Detroit Theater and now this church, that these issues are settled and that if they for whatever reason make you queasy or enraged, you should be proactive and work to get the businesses or organizations that YOU WANT in those spaces that you value. I would bet money on the fact that if you got a solid business you preferred in that space that you would not only improve the community, but would inspire others to do the same and maybe even fill up so many vacant lots.

[Michael Loje]

Occasionally, the subject of the sounds and smells of the newer McDonalds have been discussed.
If they have improved the drive-thru sound systems and fume dissipation, it would be evident at their newest stores. Two are located at 27322 Lorain Road, North Olmsted, and 8775 Mentor Avenue in Mentor. To those impacted, it might be worth the trip.