Is McDonald's REALLY best use for Detroit Theater property?

[Bill Trentel]

NEWS FLASH!

WE HAVE A PLAN, it is our zoning code.

The code defines what can be built where and how it can be used.

It was this plan that prevented the subdivision of the Heidloff property on Edgewater.
The community outcry brought attention to the plan but in the end it was the PLAN that stopped it, just as a zoning code is suppose to do.

Is our plan perfect, no but it is a PLAN. Could it be more narrowly written, yes. A more narrowly written plan brings its own hazards, limiting creativity is the biggest pitfall. I served on the Planning Commission during the last major rewrite of the code and quite frankly the lack public interest in the PLAN was shocking. Numerous public events were held to engage the public to provide input very few citizens seemed interested.

Should the PLAN be changed? The Planning Commission is the civic body and the mechanism we have chosen to manage the PLAN and those who thinks the PLAN needs to change should work through our elected leaders and the Planning Commission to make that happen.

Being a gadfly with idealistic fantasy's does not make change happen. At some point real people with real ideas that can work in the real world need to sit down and do the hard often boring work to make it happen. I encourage any citizen get involved get on a board or commission, it will be an enlightening experience. At the very least attend the public meetings and put your ideas on the record.

Reformed gadfly,
Bill Trentel

[Bill Trentel]

Jim O'bryan asked:
huh?

Jim,
Heres how it works. You have a seller that is anxious to sell a property. You have a buyer that, no matter how much they want it, never let on how much they want it.
They make an offer to the seller, subject to city approval.
The city comes back, says they like the proposal, but says they want to change x, y, and z to make the project a better fit with the neighborhood.
The buyers standard answer when confronted with anything that challenges their formula;
"That makes the project economically unfeasible. We're done, Have a nice day"
The buyer tells the seller the deal is off, and why.
The buyer just sits back and watches.
The seller angrily asks the city "why did you quash my deal?" and threatens a lawsuit.
The seller keeps after the buyer and asks "what can I do?"
The buyer says "Get your city off my back!"
The city eventually eases their requirements.
The buyer makes a few concessions to the city but basically builds his formula.
That is not peculiar to Lakewood; that happens everywhere.

Michael's description is partially correct, it does illustrate that the process is much more dynamic then most realize. I served as a member of the ARB and perhaps I can provide some real world insight in to how the board functions. It should be noted the the board consists of five citizen volunteers. I can not attest to the qualifications of the current board members but during my ten year the members had varied backgrounds (architecture, visual arts, construction, urban planning to recall a few) but all in my opinion were qualified and fine public servants. The board is managed by the Planning Director with most referrals coming through the building departments application process. Hence the Building Director has a lot of influence over what the board reviews.
The board also serves as the Board of Sign Review and Board of Building Standards. The board does have broad guidelines that it follows. Architecture is an art and is very subjective in nature, their over riding goal was to preserve the architectural integrity of Lakewood. Some could and do argue that the guidelines should be narrowly defined but to do so would severely limit creativity. Should we only be a community of Picasso's or do we need some Grandma Moses and Monet too?
I can tell you for a fact that we have several proposals come before the board some with many revisions that were not and did not get approval from the board because they could not meet our standards they never happened!
Proposals that came from corporate/national chains usually followed this basic pattern:
A developer finds a location that a tenant (chain) could use for its business.
The developer gets the property it needs under contract.
The developer makes a proposal to the city
The city requires the developer to apply for all of the various required applications be made. (architectural is usually only one of them)
They submit plans for the boards approval, which many times are boiler plate plans. Keep in mind the developer is looking to please their client (the chain) and at the lowest cost so that they can get the return on their investment as soon as possible.
The plan is reviewed (at a public meeting) and set back for revisions.
The developer complains (sometimes threatening law suit)
There is some give and take (more public meetings) and if the all goes well the chain gets involved, because if they really want the location it is my experience that this is when the community gets more of what it wants. Most of the developers are accustom to building in sprawling new development areas. The board tries to educate them to the needs and somewhat unique aspects of Lakewood. The give and take comes down to our needs and their needs and in the end hopefully both get most of what they want.
The board could take an our way or the highway approach to ever proposal I'm afraid that that would only result in expensive lawsuits and reputation of being hostile to business and less commercial activity of all types, chains and mom and pop's.
In my opinion what makes Lakewood "cool" is our diversity. Diversity in people, places and things. As hard as some might try to make our "brand" one kind of, people, places and things. It is our diversity that we must except and embrace.

Bill

[Michael Loje]

Bill, so what do you suggest to be the best course of action?

[Jim O'Bryan]

The board could take an our way or the highway approach to ever proposal I'm afraid that that would only result in expensive lawsuits and reputation of being hostile to business and less commercial activity of all types, chains and mom and pop's.
In my opinion what makes Lakewood "cool" is our diversity. Diversity in people, places and things. As hard as some might try to make our "brand" one kind of, people, places and things. It is our diversity that we must except and embrace.

Bill

Bill

No one is suggesting an are way or the highway, and certainly the city needs to be opened
to ideas both new and old. But when I look at Madison and Warren, I have to scratch my
head. Just the sidewalk access at the intersection boggles the mind. To think this went
through reviews is staggering.

Please note, not complaining about Walgreens, Sherwin Williams, nor the shape of the
buildings.

I would agree that our strength is our diversity. Our cool while diverse, I think comes
deeper from the souls of the people and the many volunteers in this diverse community.
You cannot co-opt cool, it merely happens.

When I mention brand, I merely think it is helpful for marketing ourselves to new businesses,
and in our constant search for new neighbors.

.

[Matthew Lee]

I just composed an email to the mayor on this issue.

While I respect the right that McDonalds legally could move there, I also have the right to call into question whether or not such a move is good for Lakewood.

[Betsy Voinovich]

I just composed an email to the mayor on this issue.

While I respect the right that McDonalds legally could move there, I also have the right to call into question whether or not such a move is good for Lakewood.

Hey Matt,

That's great. I will do the same. Did you copy the Council members?

When I was concerned about the Council changing their three reading rule, I wrote a letter and asked that it be read aloud and into the record at the meeting, so those that read the minutes or watch the meetings on Cable would be aware of what their fellow citizens are bringing to the attention of the City.


This is an article from the current edition of our sister publication in Cleveland Heights and University Heights, The Heights Observer. I thought it was interesting. I guess it's already a done deal there.

"Sad Meals"

by Ralph Solonitz

University Heights, Ohio...my home town...Do we really need this in the middle of a beautiful town?

More urban sprawl... Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!

http://www.heightsobserver.org/read/201 ... /sad-meals

Betsy Voinovich

[Betsy Voinovich]

NEWS FLASH!

WE HAVE A PLAN, it is our zoning code.

The code defines what can be built where and how it can be used.

It was this plan that prevented the subdivision of the Heidloff property on Edgewater.
The community outcry brought attention to the plan but in the end it was the PLAN that stopped it, just as a zoning code is suppose to do.

Is our plan perfect, no but it is a PLAN. Could it be more narrowly written, yes. A more narrowly written plan brings its own hazards, limiting creativity is the biggest pitfall. I served on the Planning Commission during the last major rewrite of the code and quite frankly the lack public interest in the PLAN was shocking. Numerous public events were held to engage the public to provide input very few citizens seemed interested.

Should the PLAN be changed? The Planning Commission is the civic body and the mechanism we have chosen to manage the PLAN and those who thinks the PLAN needs to change should work through our elected leaders and the Planning Commission to make that happen.

Being a gadfly with idealistic fantasy's does not make change happen. At some point real people with real ideas that can work in the real world need to sit down and do the hard often boring work to make it happen. I encourage any citizen get involved get on a board or commission, it will be an enlightening experience. At the very least attend the public meetings and put your ideas on the record.

Reformed gadfly,
Bill Trentel

Hi Bill,

I'm completely with you on the idea that the community needs to participate more and pay attention to things like THE PLANNING COMMISSION.

At the same time, it doesn't seem like zoning code is exactly a plan. I tried to look it up-- I know that the area of Detroit where the theater is, is clearly a business district, but in our dense community it is of course also a residential district, across the street from a park where the kids play ball.

I tried to look this stuff up-- I'm not very good at negotiating the City of Lakewood website. What I found were definitely rules, but not a plan. Unless I'm looking in the wrong place. It looks like this, and I copied only a very small portion. And of course I'm not sure if it's the right portion.

1129.02 PRINCIPAL AND CONDITIONAL PERMITTED USES.

Unless otherwise provided by law or in this Code, buildings, structures or land shall only be used or occupied following the adoption of this Code for the uses permitted herein. Schedule 1129.02 enumerates those uses that may locate in a C1 Office, C2 Retail, C3 General Business, and C4 Public School District as a matter of right as a principal use and those uses which may locate in a given district upon obtaining a Conditional Use Permit.

(a) A use listed in Schedule 1129.02 shall be permitted by right in a district when denoted by the letter “P,” provided that all provisions of the Ordinances and this Code have been met.

(b) A use listed in Schedule 1129.02 may be permitted as a conditional use in a district when denoted by the letter “C,” provided that the regulations in Chapters 1161 and 1173, and all other provisions of the Ordinances and this Code have been met.
(Ord. 91-95. Passed 10-7-96.)

(c) Any use listed in Schedule 1129.02 as a permitted or conditionally permitted use may be permitted in a Planned Development, provided that the regulations in Chapter 1156, and all other provisions of the Ordinances and this Code have been met.

(d) Any use listed in Schedule 1129.02 as a permitted or conditionally permitted use in the base zones of the Mixed Use Overlay District (MUOD) may be permitted as a conditional use in a MUOD, provided that the regulations in Chapter 1135, and all other provisions of the Ordinances and this Code have been met.

(Ord. 61-04. Passed 7-6-04.)

etc etc


I understand that the building blocks for any Plan would be the zoning code. I wasn't able to find in there whether a McDonalds right there would violate the code because it caused a traffic nuisance, or because food smells and a late night drive through violate some kind of residential rights or code. I'm assuming that McDonald's must have cleared those hurdles, which means we might need something more than the code.

I'm a novice at all of this stuff. I'm assuming there are people out there like you, and Steve Davis, who know a lot more about all of this, who have participated on commissions and review boards, etc, and I thank you very much for helping to keep the rest of us informed.

I tried to look up the Architectural Review Board to see whether there was a stated plan, or vision or philosophy for buildings, old and new in Lakewood and couldn't find that. Bill, it would be a great service if that stuff exists online, if you would point people like me towards the web address. This is like being in the jungle.

However, I did learn that there is an Architectural Review Board meeting tonight! May 12th at 5:30 PM at City Hall.

Public Notice:
Board of Building Standards/Architectural Board of Review/Sign Review Board: Agenda
Thursday, May 12, 2011 5:30 PM
Board of Building Standards/Architectural Board of Review/Sign Review Board: Agenda

AGENDA
BOARD OF BUILDING STANDARDS/
ARCHITECTURAL BOARD OF REVIEW/SIGN REVIEW BOARD
May 12th, 2011
5:30 PM - Lakewood City Hall
Auditorium

PRE-REVIEW MEETINGS start at 4:00 PM in the lower level conference room of Lakewood City Hall.

REVIEW MEETINGS will commence at 5:30 PM in the Auditorium of Lakewood City Hall located at 12650 Detroit Avenue unless otherwise indicated. You or your representative MUST attend the review meeting in order for an application to receive review. Please use the western entrance.

Their agenda is online, the link is this:http://onelakewood.com/Boards_Commissions/BuildingStandards.aspx.

I have no idea how this group works, nor whether they have a public communications time set aside at their meetings, but they are meeting tonight, at City Hall. If anybody can go, please bring back a report and post it here so we can learn more about how all of this works. Thanks.

Betsy Voinovich

[J Hrlec]

I was just tinkering around with the computer.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I was just tinkering around with the computer.

J Hrlec

Spectacular!

It kills me to see this happen to the theater. But to save it, really had to be
started years ago. I fear the Westwood/Madison/Hillard might be too far gone. But we still
have two others that are solid, and dry. And one making money now and then. Maybe
someone should start a "Theater Preservation Group" and...

I would make my plea for joining, donating, and working with the Historical Society.
It is not that they do not want to save so many of these buildings, they just do not have
the resources.

There are a couple other alternatives. One would be for all of us to stop by Mickey Ds at
least once a week, and tell them how nice it is having them on Sloan.


.

[Michael Loje]

Betsy, last nights ARB meeting at 5:30 was probably fairly typical. Businesses looking to change signage, people trying to convince the board that they have to enclose their front porch, and things like that. One or two people show up to plead each case, and then leave after their case has been decided. So when the last docket item comes up, there may only be one person left in the room. And there is a call for public comment before each case is finalized. They say the meetings last about an hour. That is, of course, if nothing controversial is on the docket. The agenda is published about a week before the meeting. So, if it gets to that point, I think that meeting would be heavily attended.

[Michael Loje]

And, j, don't laugh. That might be a potential outcome.

[Bill Trentel]

Bill, so what do you suggest to be the best course of action?

Michael,
I guess one direction might be to somehow identify the structures that could be considered to be architecturally important to the community and have a relationship with the owner so that when the owner decides to put the building on the market or is approached by an unsolicited offer they have a relationship that might be able to assist them in finding other options. I don't know if this is something that the Planning Department or a CDC would be best able to manage. I'm kind of thinking a CDC would have a better ability do more and might be less threatening to many of the building owners. The first stick point is how would you identify the architecturally important structures?

The preservation of our architecture is not a new topic and believe it or not things have gotten better. Not to long ago a building owner could get a demolition permit tear down the build no questions asked as long as they paid for the permit. Now a building owner must have an approved plan for the sites redevelopment before a demolition permit is issued. Now obviously that doesn't guarantee what is approved will ever be built but it does offer some level of additional community control.

Bill

[Bill Trentel]

I understand that the building blocks for any Plan would be the zoning code. I wasn't able to find in there whether a McDonalds right there would violate the code because it caused a traffic nuisance, or because food smells and a late night drive through violate some kind of residential rights or code. I'm assuming that McDonald's must have cleared those hurdles, which means we might need something more than the code.

I'm a novice at all of this stuff. I'm assuming there are people out there like you, and Steve Davis, who know a lot more about all of this, who have participated on commissions and review boards, etc, and I thank you very much for helping to keep the rest of us informed.

I tried to look up the Architectural Review Board to see whether there was a stated plan, or vision or philosophy for buildings, old and new in Lakewood and couldn't find that. Bill, it would be a great service if that stuff exists online, if you would point people like me towards the web address. This is like being in the jungle.
Betsy Voinovich

Betsy,
The Zoning Code is more of a plan than you might think, by definition the zoning code is a land use plan. When I was part of the commission that rewrote the plan we really tried to look forward in the designation of uses, well beyond the current uses. We took into account changed/changing housing, traffic and business patterns and tried to designate want would best fit in the future. Additionally we added a lot of new requirements regarding building setbacks, buffers, screening (sound, light and smell).
Being an urban community I would think most of us understand the compromises we must make to our peace and quite so that we can have the advantages of living in an urban environment. Realistically if you chose to live near a C3 general business area, should you be offended by the permitted uses taking place?
Don't get me wrong I would hate to see a McDonald's there or anywhere on Detroit. But here in the U.S.A. we cherish our freedoms and property rights is one of them.

As regard to the guidelines that govern the Board of Architectural Review in the form of strict guidelines, unless things have changed the only mandate I recall was to preserve the architectural integrity of the community. Upon installation on the board each member was provided with several binders of materials written by national historic preservation organizations, interesting stuff but not guidelines. In reality I can not think of a way place guidelines on a subjective art form like architecture, without restricting the creativity needed to over see the architectural diversity present in Lakewood. That's one reason why it is imperative that these board positions are filled with capable members. (that isn't always the case) Perhaps I need to attend one of their meeting so I can get a sense of the current boards make-up.

Bill

[Michael Loje]

Bill,
How are the dynamics changed when you have a very, very, very motivated seller? I think that is the situation here.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Bill,
How are the dynamics changed when you have a very, very, very motivated seller? I think that is the situation here.

Bill

Also how do the appointments get made? Political in nature? Friends in nature?
Background in nature? Expertise in nature?

Just curious.


.