Gifted and talented program threatened in the state of Ohio

[Vince Frantz]

Thealexa

I think that you don't have to be gifted to be utterly bored by the current system. I think that makes you normal!

Current teachers/parents have a high conviction towards what we have now but hope for better results somehow. I also think that teachers are reluctant to completely change the way the classroom works as they have formed a connection with the way things are at a very fundamental level. In fact - almost anyone that came up through public school has had a kind of "apprenticeship" understanding of what the profession entails simply because they have spent 12 years as an indirect understudy.

Anyone who is attracted to that particular career path is also expecting it not to change too much.

Money...

It would not cost any more tax money to have looping. Class sizes would stay the same. Montessori method classrooms and directors don't cost any more than what we have now.

As a tax payer - I would want more attention/resources and critical thinking applied to the first 6 years of schooling. My wife and I recently came to the conclusion that instead of only saving for college - we should make sure they early years are covered first. I don't know that any of my kids will even go to college so I am not waiting to tack on some good education at the end.


Found this today as well:

http://annmic.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/ ... y-not-age/

Watch the CNN story about a public elementary school that stopped grouping by age/grade and allowed students to have complete individual progress vs gifted/normal/special needs etc.

Video here:

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2011/05 ... school.cnn

[Thealexa Becker]

It is not that I don't think the program is valuable. I am worried about the gap...we are increasing it in our economy, now in our school education. I have never attended public school and having kids in LPS I am amazed that children in different schools are perceived to get a better educations. If you are in * program at *school then you are set...and it is all about test scores, ask anyone in the education system from school board on down.

First of all I want to say that I think it is silly to say that Republicans don't care about education. But there ARE some very vocal people associated with the Republican party who don't value education as much as they should, and sadly, that taints the pool.

I think the even bigger problem than the gap is the issue of this "do it yourself" attitude that gets pushed onto students deemed gifted. For example, I wanted to go to school out of state, preferrably on the East Coast, and I got support from a few awesome people in the school, but not support from the system. I had to pull the pieces for these applications to these schools on my own and seek out the people to help me. Counselors and advisors are in short supply and Lakewood really doesn't have an all encompassing program in place to help everyone looking to apply to top Universities. If you want to do that, you need to be lucky enough, like I was, to find people who have the time and ability to help you. But the same can not be said for everyone, which is a fault of the system.

I believe if changes were made, more teachers would be thrilled to be able to help ALL students reach their potential when apply for post secondary school education.

And I think the same could be said about gifted education itself. For example, when I was in third grade, my teacher actually told my mom that she wasn't going to worry about teaching us division because "we were bright and would pick up on our own". And that kind of "do it yourself" mentality is unacceptable.

We need to be more like Shaker Heights as a district. They don't have the same gifted program because their entire program is fantastic. Lakewood has that potential, it just needs more people to back it.

[Thealexa Becker]

Thealexa

I think that you don't have to be gifted to be utterly bored by the current system. I think that makes you normal!

True, but you might be confusing boredom with lack of desire to be in school. Lots of kids say they are bored instead of "they don't like school" or they "don't understand". Those are different issues that also need to be addressed. Still, no student should be bored.

But it is absolutely ridiculous that a student in a program designed for them to not be bored got bored. Obviously then, my point is, that the program isn't doing all that it is supposed to be doing.

[Stan Austin]

Folks-- In the last several weeks I have been an Observer into a different approach to education. It has been reported on under the LHS 2.0 Earth Day Project. At this point on this thread I don't wish to get into the nitty gritty of educational and pedagogical practices.
I only wish to point out that there are educational initiatives that are right now, at this moment, in our town that are being pursued and are cutting edge.
My point is that some of this discussion is about 40 years behind the times and we are already jumping way ahead.
I hope to bring this out in further articles.
Stan Austin

[Thealexa Becker]

My point is that some of this discussion is about 40 years behind the times and we are already jumping way ahead.
I hope to bring this out in further articles.
Stan Austin

Now I'm confused, what is behind the times, the educational discussion or our ideas on this thread?

Because I would agree with the former.

[Stan Austin]

Thealexa---You're all talking about the merits of a gasoline engine when the future is electric motors and alternative power sources.
Stan

[Sean Wheeler]

Let me begin by saying that I support the original intent of this thread. It is shame that we are cutting even more funding, especially funding aimed at a unique group of students with unique needs.

Thealexa's reflection on her experience has me thinking about this TedTalk from Dan Pink. It sheds some light on the issues that she highlights. Every time Dan Pink says "business", try substituting "education". He provides some insight that might shift the conversation a bit.

I'm not sure how to embed a video, but here's the link.

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html

[Bill Call]

As a tax payer - I would want more attention/resources and critical thinking applied to the first 6 years of schooling. My wife and I recently came to the conclusion that instead of only saving for college - we should make sure they early years are covered first. I don't know that any of my kids will even go to college so I am not waiting to tack on some good education at the end.


Found this today as well:

http://annmic.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/ ... y-not-age/

Watch the CNN story about a public elementary school that stopped grouping by age/grade and allowed students to have complete individual progress vs gifted/normal/special needs etc.

Video here:

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2011/05 ... school.cnn

The economy and technologies are changing so fast that critical thinking and the ability to adapt and learn are more important than ever. A classical liberal arts education looks better than ever.

How do you teach students how to think? How do you teach a student how to adapt? I have no idea.

The gradeless school and other ideas described in the CNN story are worth considering. However, we have to be wary of the latest trendy idea. The last great trendy idea was whole language. The result was a generation of children that could not read.

I see that our school board has decided to punt and endorse business as usual by their approval of a two year contract extension. Can you punt your way to better and more efficient schools?

Riddle:

If you spend $70 million this year and cut the budget $8 million how much will you spend next year?

[Thealexa Becker]

Thealexa---You're all talking about the merits of a gasoline engine when the future is electric motors and alternative power sources.
Stan

Well when I see a gas engine maybe I will start to get excited for the possibility of an electric motor. But at this point, I think everyone is still walking. In other words, I'll believe it when I see it.

And besides, if they are looking to cut funding to gifted education, it doesnt matter that there are these "great new ideas". We are still going to have no money to do it.

But the bigger question is why do we need all these alternatives? Why can't we just do it right without having to re-invent the wheel?

[Scott Meeson]

I see that our school board has decided to punt and endorse business as usual by their approval of a two year contract extension. Can you punt your way to better and more efficient schools?

Riddle:

If you spend $70 million this year and cut the budget $8 million how much will you spend next year?

Bill,

Ditto!

I'm wondering if Matthew "Transparency" Markling can provide the estimated costs to the district (2011/2012,2012/2013) for that unassuming 2% pay increase? (Please include the associated increase in pension cost)

Ever get the feeling we're watching this type of game:



Scott

[Sean Wheeler]

But the bigger question is why do we need all these alternatives? Why can't we just do it right without having to re-invent the wheel?

The "wheel" was created for a 19th century factory workforce and a 19th century management system. Aren't we due for a bit of re-invention?

Sir Ken says it best here...

http://sirkenrobinson.com/skr/rsa-anima ... -paradigms

[Jim O'Bryan]

From the Lakewood High Times 1970 I believe.

While many of the posters in this thread are correct, I think we are missing the boat
in a couple examples.

The other day a friend mentioned to me the only person smarter than a sophomore in
High School is a Junior in College. While we laughed, it is sometimes true. Thealexa
is one of the rare examples of being ahead of that curve.

But in 1970, I was drafted into Group 30, a wild idea for education. Let the students choose
their education and their pathway. An even smaller group was put together to help write
the curriculum at a more than fair rate over the summer. What we were told is that we
were an exceptional bright group of students that seemed bored by everyday classes and
needed more stimulus. What we were not told is that we were also targeted as potential
drop outs as we were bored and seemed ripe for falling out of the educational tree early
and those numbers would not look good for the system.

So a bunch of Sophomores that knew everything about life and what they needed we given
the task of designing a program to keep us interested and learning. While many great
things came out of that class, I am still not sure today, we could not have done much of
it on our own as an extracurricular activity, and that we might have best been served
but not branding us, but forcing us into the day to day tasks that would would inevitably
have faced in the real world. You know sitting through pointless meetings, hearing things
for the sake of others that we already knew, and that performing in a group among all
levels is just as much a learned experience as building radio stations, hiking, and...

This summer one of the teachers is headed back, and I have plans to do a big interview
and a recap of all of this and where we have fallen since then. One of the very real facts
is that many if not most have succeeded in fields that require innovation, self starting,
and entrepreneurial spirit.

My point is, that school is more than books and static learning, like college it teaches you
many social skills. Branding people as gifted, seems somewhat counter productive to the
entire process. Having two or three different levels of gifted to keep parents happy seems
absurd. At some point we need to educate all, and give them all tools they can use.

FWIW


.

[Thealexa Becker]

The other day a friend mentioned to me the only person smarter than a sophomore in
High School is a Junior in College. While we laughed, it is sometimes true. Thealexa
is one of the rare examples of being ahead of that curve.

Anyone at any age who thinks they know everything has clearly never had extensive exposure to math or the developing sciences. Just sayin...

The foolishness in the example you've shown us is thinking that students have the ability to choose their own curriculum. It isn't that students don't know what they want or can't articulate their learning needs if they want to, but they really haven't had enough exposure to different disciplines to even know what there is to learn.

By that I mean, college for example. One of the beauties of college is that it opens people's eyes to different subjects and ways of thinking they hadn't seen before. There is really very little chance that many sophomores in high school, despite their protestations, would even be aware of lots of the courses offered.

To that extent, I feel like there still is some hesitancy to listen when students in the gifted say they are bored. People think they are bragging or being a wisecracker or showing off. It would be a good idea to start with finding out what students want before improving programs or inventing some convoluted new system.

I'm not saying that everything students say will be helpful, but sometimes, if you look beneath a lot of what they are saying, there are meaningful lessons to be learned.

One example is busywork. No one likes it, but some teachers seem to think that it helps. It doesn't, it just trivializes any work you do in class. And that isn't a way to entertain gifted students, because they can see through the assignment and know that it is a waste of time, so they put little effort into it.

[Scott Meeson]

I was in the gifted program and I always thought it was just for the students who needed more advanced academic material, not for students with special educational needs.

With that being said, there are TONS of issues with "gifted" education, some of which are probably exacerbated by threats to cut funding. I always thought that more could have been done in the program. I was perpetually bored in the gifted classes they put me in to keep from being bored, so clearly there is something wrong.

Bored?

I found the following to be an interesting read:

A Nation Decieved/Volume 1: http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Nation_Deceived/ND_v1.pdf

Volume 2:http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Nation_Deceived/ND_v2.pdf

Poster:http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Resources/ND%20Poster.pdf

Make of it what you will.

Scott