Anonymous Elected/Appointed/Civic Leaders and Journalists

[marklingm]

Just last night, I was discussing issues surrounding online anonymity with an editor.

Then, this morning, I read with interest the following article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110419/ts_yblog_thecutline/the-demotion-of-dilbert-continues-no-comic-relief-for-creator.

I would like to hear the case as to why an elected/appointed/civic leader or journalist should participate in online forums anonymously.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Matt

Something I had always wondered but not all elected officials have the backbone, or the
convictions of their opinions that you do. Let's be honest you got involved in politics to
help Lakewood Schools, schools that you kids attend. You have a ton to offer Lakewood
Schools as the top legal mind in the state on school law. Many people do not even realize
the financial hit you too as Lakewood was one of you clients that you could no longer
represent. This is not true with many politicians.

Many are looking for building their name, or getting into the ladder to the top. So that when
they do post, they hate to be disagreed with, or worse shown to be somehow lacking in
the area they are representing. While it was everyone on council and the school board that
asked for the real name policy, they also found out that it is a different deal talking with
voters, than talking with Miles Long, or Bun E. Rabbit.

Again, you have signed on to the transparency sunshine agenda, and have tried and tried
to get schools and Lakewood officials to follow. Look at the pull back you have gotten from
that!

Which brings us to our point. Elected officials are often going places where resident cannot
trult interact, or they can sign on with a faux name and say, "Mr. Politician what a great
idea, thank you for it..." Real people dealing in debate with faux names are fools, idiots,
or those with many faux names themselves.

At least this is what history has shown us here in Lakewood, and nationally.

FWIW


.

[Edward Favre]

Matt:

To answere your question, I can see in the case of a "whistleblower." Somebody who is telling the truth on a matter that the powers that be would rather be kept quiet, and who has a legitimate fear of retribution. We know that does happen.

But for people to hide behind a keyboard and/or false identity to pontificate their opinions, promote self interest, slander others without accountability............I can think of a variety of names to file them under.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Matt:

To answere your question, I can see in the case of a "whistleblower." Somebody who is telling the truth on a matter that the powers that be would rather be kept quiet, and who has a legitimate fear of retribution. We know that does happen.

But for people to hide behind a keyboard and/or false identity to pontificate their opinions, promote self interest, slander others without accountability............I can think of a variety of names to file them under.

Ed

First off a real whistle blower should go through proper channels then they are protected by
law, and should say what they need to. To that extent a person is always more protected
by going public. ALWAYS, the story I tell is years ago I was stalked by someone using a
fake name on Compuserve. He drove 2 states to confront me at my PO Box. Had "speed
race" disappeared from CS, no one would have known.

This town as you know as your family has been singled out before and has been the victim
of viscous baseless attacks on you and your children. I have to think it is far better for all
to see who is doing and who is not.

Just recently someone we both know was attacked for no reason here, but a person that
has become known for that. When I spoke with him he said at least he knew who it was,
and that the person obviously had deep problems.

This city has got to understand that is nothing gained by faux names. In the past we had
one person using 5 names to ram home a crappy idea. Now we have one person running
3 sites and hiding behind fake names there, on facebook, cleveland.com, and elsewhere
actually getting traction because the political and leaders of this town have ZERO critical
thought to what is going on. It is embarrassing leaders can be so taken with this BS.

But welcome to Lakewood where decisions are made before the meeting to decide, that
most deals are down in hallways, back rooms and bars, and far away from the eyes of
the public, where in the past only scoundrels, thieves would operate.

I do not understand this behavior and I understand rewarding it even less.

FWIW

.

[Charlie Page]

But for people to hide behind a keyboard and/or false identity to pontificate their opinions, promote self interest, slander others without accountability............I can think of a variety of names to file them under.

You can add to those names the person who tried to hack into my Deck account a month or so ago. I try to log in one day and I'm greeted with one of those screens where you have to read and type the distorted letters/numbers because there were too many unsuccessful login attempts on my account. Real nice

[Jim O'Bryan]

But for people to hide behind a keyboard and/or false identity to pontificate their opinions, promote self interest, slander others without accountability............I can think of a variety of names to file them under.

You can add to those names the person who tried to hack into my Deck account a month or so ago. I try to log in one day and I'm greeted with one of those screens where you have to read and type the distorted letters/numbers because there were too many unsuccessful login attempts on my account. Real nice

Charlie

Let me assure you that we are well aware of this and have found an odd pattern, that would
indicate that the person is local, and is possible one of the two people that quit the LO,
though tell people they are banned, and utter lie, and have a propensity for using faux
names elsewhere.

No one account has been hacked, as always data protected, and never shared or abused.

This should give one cause to think, why would people lie about being banned, and then
repeatedly try to hack into accounts. Especially when some run their own sites and blogs?

The people that run this site are you neighbors, friends, and civic leaders. We are not being
controlled by outside influences, or multi-million dollar companies, we do not do this as
a way to lower our budget, or to brake unions. We are not here to "monetize" the news
of the people of Lakewood, which already belongs to them. We are hear to help Lakewoodites to get their news and views out, without agenda, other than accountability
for their words and actions.

.

[Corey Rossen]

I love the fact that the word "pontificate" has made its way onto the Deck. I love that word!
That made my day. No sarcasm, really.

Corey

[Bryan Schwegler]

My bigger concern are public officials who won't even utilize modern electronic communication media for connecting with their constituents even when anonymity isn't a factor. Especially those who had no problem doing so prior to be elected.

The world is changing, political leaders need to understand that.

[Bill Call]

My bigger concern are public officials who won't even utilize modern electronic communication media for connecting with their constituents even when anonymity isn't a factor. Especially those who had no problem doing so prior to be elected.

The world is changing, political leaders need to understand that.

There isn't much of an upside for an elected representative to engage in open debate on a public web site. They simply set themselves up to be a target. On the other hand, public officials who take part in discussions on this web site generally get respectful and thoughtful treatment.

I suppose the best path is for officials to take part but not be dragged into tit for tat sniping. Ed Fitzgerald used this site to explain the changes in trash pickup. His willingness to do so helped to ensure a smooth transition to the new system.

If I choose to take the plunge and make a formal announcement as a candidate for school board I intend to post ideas in public for public discussion. It probably makes more sense to campaign on generalities but that makes for a boring and non productive campaign.

[Jim O'Bryan]

My bigger concern are public officials who won't even utilize modern electronic communication media for connecting with their constituents even when anonymity isn't a factor. Especially those who had no problem doing so prior to be elected.

The world is changing, political leaders need to understand that.

There isn't much of an upside for an elected representative to engage in open debate on a public web site. They simply set themselves up to be a target. On the other hand, public officials who take part in discussions on this web site generally get respectful and thoughtful treatment.

I suppose the best path is for officials to take part but not be dragged into tit for tat sniping. Ed Fitzgerald used this site to explain the changes in trash pickup. His willingness to do so helped to ensure a smooth transition to the new system.

If I choose to take the plunge and make a formal announcement as a candidate for school board I intend to post ideas in public for public discussion. It probably makes more sense to campaign on generalities but that makes for a boring and non productive campaign.

Bill

I have to think Bryan is correct. And there is a huge upside for political and civic leaders to jump into the mosh pit and talk about their stance and issues.

When we sat down to look at what was needed the first thing was that things in this city are not discussed enough, not discussed to a level that allows people to both understand
and or weigh in. As you point out Ed FitzGerald with a little bit of work became a master
of it. The trash discussion was but one of those.

The very real truth is that Ed leaked to me they had a truck and told me when they were
testing it. I went down and photographed it and the discussion sometimes extremely
heated, unfolded. Ed who signed on nearly every night at some point, finally took the
discussion, and answered a majority of the questions, and put to rest many of the
concerns, and even said at the end to paraphrase, "This is what is going to happen."

This is what an elected official is supposed to do. It is a very heated world.

Bryan is correct, at some point they must learn, interaction is good.

.

[Stan Austin]

From one who has been involved in this from its inception and a participant/advisor on all sides I would have to advise candidates and office holders that this is the 21st Century.
You're a slacker, part timer, just punching the clock if you don't use the electronic media.
So somebody challenges your post? What's the difference between that and answering questions on a porch, or a public meeting?
Those who know how to use the new social media not only benefit the ideas which they espouse, they also add an additional dimension to the public discourse.
Just think of it like the Founding Fathers at the inception of our nation, exchanging letters, debating issues before taking the stage coach to conventions, ............ except accelerated by an exponential factor!
Stan Austin

[Scott Meeson]

Just last night, I was discussing issues surrounding online anonymity with an editor.

Then, this morning, I read with interest the following article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110419/ts_yblog_thecutline/the-demotion-of-dilbert-continues-no-comic-relief-for-creator.

I would like to hear the case as to why an elected/appointed/civic leader or journalist should participate in online forums anonymously.

Matt,


???

Scott

[marklingm]

Scott,

Nice. But, the whole poem is needed:

We Wear the Mask

We wear the mask that grins and lies,
It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes,—
This debt we pay to human guile;
With torn and bleeding hearts we smile,
And mouth with myriad subtleties.

Why should the world be over-wise,
In counting all our tears and sighs?
Nay, let them only see us, while
We wear the mask.

We smile, but, O great Christ, our cries
To thee from tortured souls arise.
We sing, but oh the clay is vile
Beneath our feet, and long the mile;
But let the world dream otherwise,
We wear the mask!

Matt

[Jim O'Bryan]

Matt

The internet is an odd thing, it can bring out the best and worst in everyone. It is funny
how many people of all ages are starting to look for something more, some with more
weight and substance.

It has become something nearly uncontrollable in a world where so much in uncontrollable,
and people are looking for order, and a sense of community.

All I can really say on this subject is that between cyber bulling, and now gangs of cyber
bullies that descend on a person or group to spam, harm, teach them a lesson, etc. The
net is falling way short of its goal and its ideal. But alas it is a feral beast, without much
order, forgiveness and soul.

But here in Lakewood he has seen elected officials, use faux names to prop themselves up,
and to make a point. We have seen elected officials shy away from the light of discussion
to platforms that allow them to hide and avoid the tough questions. We have seen some
even create public space with government, time, money, and signatures stop free speech
cold, because when allowed to be questioned they either have no answer, or lie. It is just
wrong, for public officials to do this. Cartoonists, that was more like a group of cyber
bullies surround and stone a man to near death, and in a panic when seen to be fighting
for his life he becomes desperate.

Does it make sense? Not really. But when the bullies have a grip of you, and seen you
pause, is when they come. It is like the animal packs from wild kingdom. Let the lion
dare limp, and the others are on him like the wild beasts they are. Does it make sense
not really, is it fair, hardly. But feral cats are feral cats.

I was in a fascinating conversation with a friend last night about this very thing. What I
found amusing, was one of the many things I find amusing about humans, he could justify
the most egregious behavior, because one side deserved it. Yet was outraged when it
came back at them, or their friends. It was OK for public officials to break the first
amendment rights of people, but it was wrong for private individuals to do the same, when
no first amendment rights were at stake. Think about that, OK to trample the first
amendment rights of anyone that disagreed, but found it wrong for a private business or
person, to say, "No you cannot yell fire in my theater."

I have seen this chain of thought before, most recently when some asked to see the books
of a 501-C3 using public funds and tax dollars. A group that by law, have their books open
to anyone wanting to understand. One one person said, now a public official was, stop that
and open your books first private citizen, private business. Not a what is good for the goose
is also good for the gander but, "They do not have to, but you, a private business or
person must do it." This is so topsy turvey and upside down it borders on insane.

The point is, if elected officials, and civic leaders have decided it is more important to hold
private citizens to the light, that they believe they can avoid or hide from, does it matter
if and when they hide behind faux names? If an elected official is prepared to trample on
the Constitution for the sake of pretending they are right, have we not already crossed
over a deadly to the American way of life line in the sand?

While it is every bit as wrong for an elected official to hide behind a faux name as to lie
wither under oath, or after being sworn in on the family bible. Can we be surprised when
so many elected officials are caught taking payoffs, deciding what is best for America through
nepotism, and campaign support? I think not. When elected officials are outraged over the
talk of oversight, limits, and things like time spent talking of something in the public, when
there are countless examples of abuse and corruptions where there is no oversight, and
the public official can no longer see or remember how he felt as the private citizen, when
his rights were shortchanged or worse yet trampled on, we have a system that is falling
apart under the weight of its own ego.

FWIW


.

[marklingm]

My bigger concern are public officials who won't even utilize modern electronic communication media for connecting with their constituents even when anonymity isn't a factor. Especially those who had no problem doing so prior to be elected.

The world is changing, political leaders need to understand that.

There isn't much of an upside for an elected representative to engage in open debate on a public web site. They simply set themselves up to be a target. On the other hand, public officials who take part in discussions on this web site generally get respectful and thoughtful treatment.

I suppose the best path is for officials to take part but not be dragged into tit for tat sniping. Ed Fitzgerald used this site to explain the changes in trash pickup. His willingness to do so helped to ensure a smooth transition to the new system.

If I choose to take the plunge and make a formal announcement as a candidate for school board I intend to post ideas in public for public discussion. It probably makes more sense to campaign on generalities but that makes for a boring and non productive campaign.

My bigger concern are public officials who won't even utilize modern electronic communication media for connecting with their constituents even when anonymity isn't a factor. Especially those who had no problem doing so prior to be elected.

The world is changing, political leaders need to understand that.

There isn't much of an upside for an elected representative to engage in open debate on a public web site. They simply set themselves up to be a target. On the other hand, public officials who take part in discussions on this web site generally get respectful and thoughtful treatment.

I suppose the best path is for officials to take part but not be dragged into tit for tat sniping. Ed Fitzgerald used this site to explain the changes in trash pickup. His willingness to do so helped to ensure a smooth transition to the new system.

Bryan and Bill,

I agree.

Ed FitzGerald did an excellent job on engaging people on the Deck while he was Mayor because Ed is, frankly, a very bright guy but, most importantly, Ed has the moxie to not care whether you vote for him. Ed did what Ed thought was right, and then let you disagree with him.

Matt