State Kills Clifton Project Dead - Supports New Avon Exit

[Bill Call]

I guess the title says it all.

Money for widening of Pearl Road in Strongsville.
Money for widening I-271.
Money for new exits in Avon.
Money for widening I-77 and I-71
Jacobs uses money provided by the Cuyhoga County Commissioners to buy 400 acres near the new exit.

But no money for a bus project on Clifton because it might interfere with the truck traffic on Clifton that was banned 35 years ago.

Money for new CSU Campus in Medina
Money for new Tri-C campus in Brunswick.
Money for new Tri-C campus on the border of Lorain County

But no money for a campus in a City with 55,000 people with access to affordable housing, jobs, public transportion, fine library, bars and a jail; everything you need for a modern campus.

This City will be hard pressed to succeed if our State and County governments continue to hollow it out.

Does anyone represent us?

By the way, the retroactrive change in tax law to give the new Avon stadium a retro active tax exemption is moving at light speed.

This City is on its own. The question is: How can the City and Schools and businesses work together to make the most of what we have before its all gone?

Can't anyone here play this game?

Does anyone represent us?

[Danielle Masters]

I would love a closer campus. I am currently a Tri-C student (writing this from the Parma campus) and driving down to Parma four days a week is a pain in the neck. I looked at the other campuses but it just wouldn't work with my schedule. Even though the metro campus is close it still takes a fair amount of time to get there. It's amazing I chose to live in Lakewood because I am close to everything but I have to go to the burbs' to go to school.

I like you Bill wish there was some investment in Lakewood but sadly the vast majority of people want to live in the suburbs and so that is where the investment goes. Not sure what can be done about it, not sure anyone cares to do anything about it.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I like you Bill wish there was some investment in Lakewood but sadly the vast majority of people want to live in the suburbs and so that is where the investment goes. Not sure what can be done about it, not sure anyone cares to do anything about it.

Danielle

I simply do not believe the vast majority want to live in the suburbs.

I believe there are so many reasons that it has to be very carefully dissected, but it seems
that the vast majority is in the inner ring and city. And with the very massive move back to
the center of town, the trend seems to be slowing.

With that said, we should ask ourselves do we need investment, or to find more people that
dig what we do best? I have seen Best and Cool lists, and NONE OF THEM seem to be what
are civic leaders are demanding we do with our hard earned tax dollars. To be honest if you
look at what is working for Lakewood and/or has always worked for Lakewood you see a
bunch of civic leaders blind to what we have, and even blinder to where we can go to
improve what we already have.

Panera Bread? Jimmy Johns? 5 Guys? I am dying. Deagen, Melt, Pier W, all Lakewoodite
projects from people that understood Lakewood, and had an idea how to make it better
while not ruining the best parts.

But hey that is just me. Rumor of a new McDonald's coming!!!


.

[Grace O'Malley]

I heard that McDonald's bought the Detroit Theater. What's the scoop?

[Stan Austin]

Sloan, W. 117---now in the middle of the city? I just can't believe that there is that much demand for sh*t

[Betsy Voinovich]

Sloan, W. 117---now in the middle of the city? I just can't believe that there is that much demand for sh*t

My husband calls the one on Sloane, "McFoodpoisoning". He has some other names for it too, one of them includes Mc and the other word you have up there with the asterisk, that he doesn't use in front of the kids.

Well, we don't have a plan. We have elected officials who don't even pretend that there should be a plan. It's kind of like the tree lawn bricks in the 'People ask me' thread. Somewhere near the first page of a plan would be some pre-established facts like, "Trees grow."

Betsy Voinovich

[Mike Coleman]

There's no food poisoning in McDonalds food. They load it up with enough ammonia and formaldehyde to kill anything organic.

[Bryan Schwegler]

Seriously, if we continue to spew hate for anything that's not local, I can pretty much assure you we might as well give up now.

I just don't get the animosity.

I can think of quite a few "Lakewoodite" establishments that I'd rather drive to Pittsburgh to patronize an alternative.

The focus should be less on who owns the establishment and more on what it is providing, the service level it keeps, the value it provides, and how great of a community citizen it is.

I'm curious Jim, how is Panera or Jimmy John's ruining Lakewood? How is 5 Guys having their regional headquarters here and redeveloping that block a bad thing?

I'd take them over Calanni or most of the run down bars that can't even clean up their own messes.

I'd take Panera over the manager of 56 West who treats you like dirt just because he can.

[Danielle Masters]

I don't get the Panera bashing. My kids like Panera, I enjoy having lunch there from time to time and I am glad I can stay in Lakewood rather than heading over the bridge to Rocky River. I don't mind 5 Guys either, I really enjoyed helping out the class of 2012 by eating there one evening not too long ago.

The thing I love about Lakewood is the variety. We have so many nice little locally owned places and we have chain stores too. We are what we are, is this place perfect, heck no, but it's a darn good city, and I guess I just try and avoid the complaining as much as possible but that's just me.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I don't get the Panera bashing. My kids like Panera, I enjoy having lunch there from time to time and I am glad I can stay in Lakewood rather than heading over the bridge to Rocky River. I don't mind 5 Guys either, I really enjoyed helping out the class of 2012 by eating there one evening not too long ago.

The thing I love about Lakewood is the variety. We have so many nice little locally owned places and we have chain stores too. We are what we are, is this place perfect, heck no, but it's a darn good city, and I guess I just try and avoid the complaining as much as possible but that's just me.

Danielle

It is not Panarera bashing, and I understand variety. I go to at least 5 coffee shops often
in the same day, and yes I have even been to Panaera Bread.

Not complaining pointing out have many great ideas come from Lakewood even without
assistance. It is in all of the awards from outsiders as of late they are all homemade from
Lakewood and I am damn proud of that fact.

Jeesh

.

[J Hrlec]

Seriously, if we continue to spew hate for anything that's not local, I can pretty much assure you we might as well give up now.

I just don't get the animosity.

I can think of quite a few "Lakewoodite" establishments that I'd rather drive to Pittsburgh to patronize an alternative.

The focus should be less on who owns the establishment and more on what it is providing, the service level it keeps, the value it provides, and how great of a community citizen it is.

I'm curious Jim, how is Panera or Jimmy John's ruining Lakewood? How is 5 Guys having their regional headquarters here and redeveloping that block a bad thing?

I'd take them over Calanni or most of the run down bars that can't even clean up their own messes.

I'd take Panera over the manager of 56 West who treats you like dirt just because he can.

I would agree to some point, I don't see it as I would rather have one over the other... but more that we need the variety for the various preferences of Lakewoodites. It does often seem that all I hear from this site is how "bad" it is to have a new chain rather than a local store. Well guess what, we need both, and we do have both.

[Bryan Schwegler]

Not complaining pointing out have many great ideas come from Lakewood even without
assistance.

Jim, this is a very astute and key statement. The best thing we can do is get Lakewood to a place that regardless of where the idea originates, that the city is such an attractive place that we never have to offer incentives again for anything.

I think though in the interim is that we can't assume no assistance = good and assistance = bad. It's not that simple. There are many factors that go into whether a business or service is good or bad and whether they're a net positive or negative for the community.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I heard that McDonald's bought the Detroit Theater. What's the scoop?

Grace as of last week, not yet.

McDonald's on Sloan has been looking at the property, and it is not a dead issue, just still
in the talking phase.

As we went to press last week, the story surfaced and after speaking with many city officials
including Mayor Summers, "There is no deal at this time."

At the same time it would seem that CVS is also not as sure as we thought.

Not complaining pointing out have many great ideas come from Lakewood even without
assistance.

Jim, this is a very astute and key statement. The best thing we can do is get Lakewood to a place that regardless of where the idea originates, that the city is such an attractive place that we never have to offer incentives again for anything.

Bryan

I will go farther.

Not spewing hate for 5 Guys, far from it. Spewing Love for The Root, The Coffee Pot, The
WestEnd, Around the Corner, Deagen's, Melt, Aladdin's, Virgina Marti, Screw Factory,
Doughnut Kitchen, Elmwood Bakery, Angelos, Miller's Sunoco, Winchester, Three Birds,
Pier W, bela dubby, Lion n Blue, Rush Inn, etc.

Was it wrong for me to notice that all but one of the "Best of Cleveland" that came from
Lakewood was organic? That Melt, built their success without the $100,000 plus the city
gave the multi state 5 Guys, to not open a regional office but to hire four people? Should
I not look to the 5 screen printers that built their businesses without the $50,000 given
to University Tees to move to Lakewood and compete against them?

Do you think that $100,000 could have helped Lakewood Businesses?

Now let's go to start ups. My new CEO for AGS Software worked at JumpStart for two
years, and sat down with Nate Kelly before the election to discuss our "Start-Up" program.
He found it to be much like programs other cities have with one very large difference.
Avon's has $4 million to invest in local companies, Beechwood $16 mil, Mentor $10 mil,
Wooster $8 mil, Lorain $24 mil. How much does Lakewood have? $0!

But had we not invested in attracting big box stores, would we have had at least
something more to offer than a roundtable discussion of, "Tell us you ideas and maybe..."

No single thing in this town has done more for building the Lakewood brand than Melt. Not
the LO, not LakewoodAlive, not City Hall, but the marketing machine known as Matt Fish.
And the cost to us tax payers, $0, matter of fact he paid us for the privilege. We got our
notoriety, not on the backs of the nearly always empty Robek's, but on the back of the
heavily tattooed employees of the Melt, the earth children of The Root, The Lakewood
Library, and yes even 56 West.

I am not saying Panera is evil, or have no right to exist in this city, far from it. What I am
saying, not to you but our "civic leaders" look at what is working. Look at what gives us
the biggest bang for the buck. Look at what has staying power and growing power. What
will help us continue to be "The Best," "The Coolest," "The Greenest" whatever gives us
the ability to reach outside of Lakewood and bring more quality residents, and more
businesses that allow us to be us.

Bryan you are all over the place trying all sorts of stuff and doing even more.My argument
is not that you leave Lakewood and that you should stay here. What I am saying is what
adds to this city's landscape? What helps us, help ourselves?

In my business world, we could be available for grants in damn near every place we go,
so many of the groups we work with want the paper to be non-profit. I personally prefer
to not go after grants, because it creates a non-sustainable false sense of success, that
only leads to the business spending more time chasing grants than doing what they
should.

Then there is the fallout. It is rumored that 5 Guys, that puts out a good burger, though
arguably not better than many other places in town is $50,000 a month behind
projections. So what happens when they move or close? What happened to many of the
other places that barely hung on or closed because of them making their $100,000? While
one could say, it is an open market, and they should have done better. Did they fail
because of the city giving an unfair advantage to others? Were there opportunities lost
for a better use of the money? Were we buying friends at the cost of friends and family?

While you as a consumer should have every choice you want or need, does the city need
to make sure of that even at the cost of other businesses? Is it the better use of our tax
dollars to get into spending contests with communities that can outspend us 100 times?
5 Guys have been great for Lakewood, jumping in to help charities. Panera the same, but
should we not look to see if there was any fallout.

Not a bitch fest, not hate. As I said I have been to Panera, Chipotle, 5 Guys, but I also
have been to the WestEnd one of the best burgers in town, and seen it dead. India Garden
which not only got zero help from the city but was hassled of their India Food Emporium
because the tail in the "p" made the sign 4" to tall, and had to be redone. To 5 Guys getting
$100,000 and being allowed to ignore rules and laws, to The Root that jumped through
hoops to get open legally on their own.

When a person says shop local it is not an attack, it is not hate, it is common sense in a
city like Lakewood. If you prefer big box stores it does not make you evil, but it should
make you stop and pause and think. That when 5 Guys has a bad month it has very deep
pockets to fall back on. When the WestEnd has a bad month, it could be their last, and the
death of a quality established place.

Humans can justify anything in their own minds. Some of the worst atrocities by mankind
have been easily justified by those committing them. So let's take the human justification
out of the equation, and look at the hard cold facts. The cause and effects.

Do we go to WalMart because it is cheap, or because there is no place left but...

That is all.

.

[Bryan Schwegler]

Was it wrong for me to notice that all but one of the "Best of Cleveland" that came from
Lakewood was organic?

Well let's be honest, the places that won are super businesses and I love them all, but do you expect the paper and the people that determine the "Best Of" to lean toward non-local businesses over a local business? It's like saying do I ever expect Cleveland Magazine to name a west-side suburb as the best suburb?

It also doesn't mean everything non-local would never be worthy of a best-of designation.

Do you think that $100,000 could have helped Lakewood Businesses?

Sure, but I guess I'm not clear on what's preventing them from applying for the same type of financing. It's not like the city drove out to 5 guys and said we'll give you 100k to come here. 5 Guys approached the city.

Avon's has $4 million to invest in local companies, Beechwood $16 mil, Mentor $10 mil,
Wooster $8 mil, Lorain $24 mil. How much does Lakewood have? $0!

This is a problem if true.

Bryan you are all over the place trying all sorts of stuff and doing even more.My argument
is not that you leave Lakewood and that you should stay here. What I am saying is what
adds to this city's landscape? What helps us, help ourselves?

I think a mix of local and chain is what helps us. People like local places, but people also like some familiar. The goal is bring in chains in a way that help build the character of the city and so we don't become strip mall heaven like Mentor or North Olmsted.

Personally I think they've done a great job with Panera and many of the new places that have come to town.

When a person says shop local it is not an attack, it is not hate, it is common sense in a
city like Lakewood. If you prefer big box stores it does not make you evil, but it should
make you stop and pause and think. That when 5 Guys has a bad month it has very deep
pockets to fall back on. When the WestEnd has a bad month, it could be their last, and the
death of a quality established place.

Jim, no, "buy local" is not evil, but when you continue that statement with things like:

"Panera Bread? Jimmy Johns? 5 Guys? I am dying. Deagen, Melt, Pier W, all Lakewoodite
projects from people that understood Lakewood, and had an idea how to make it better
while not ruining the best parts.

Ruining this best parts? How are any of those guys ruining the best part? Statements like that are not just simple "buy local", that goes a step further.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, local businesses do not get a free pass just because they're local. They need to earn their business just like anyone else. I'm at Root all the time, I love the service, the people, the feel. I don't go to Caribou across the street. But that's because Root has earned my business and gives me an environment I like. Bela Dubby? Went there a few times but honestly I've always felt it cold and unwelcoming. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel guilty about it just because it's local. I'd go to Pepper's any day over Olive Garden, I'd choose Panera over eating a burger in a bar setting. That's just my preference.

I'm sorry, we just have to fundamentally disagree on this. I just will not ever believe that just because something is local or locally owned that it deserves being placed on a pedestal if it just really doesn't deserve it. There are many local businesses here that are awesome and we're lucky to have them but I would challenge you that if they've been able to do it so could any other local business with the right plan, service, and offerings.

So let's take the human justification
out of the equation, and look at the hard cold facts. The cause and effects.

This statement cuts both ways in this argument. Cold hard facts and cause and effect also apply to local business and arguments about allowing chains in Lakewood.

Ultimately, I think for the city the thrive, we need a mix of all kinds of businesses and ownership structure. Businesses that do a great job, chain or local, will survive, those that don't or miss the mark on offering the consumer what they want, won't. Sometimes it's just simply location or bad luck.

[Charlie Page]

Money for widening of Pearl Road in Strongsville.
Money for widening I-271.
Money for new exits in Avon.
Money for widening I-77 and I-71
Jacobs uses money provided by the Cuyhoga County Commissioners to buy 400 acres near the new exit.

But no money for a bus project on Clifton because it might interfere with the truck traffic on Clifton that was banned 35 years ago.

If you look at where the money is going, its all to alleviate clogged traffic. The Clifton bus project is a boondoggle that would constrict traffic like the Euclid Corridor boondoggle. Why do we need $20,000 bus stops? Why do we need a tree lined median that leaves the annual maintenance to the City? A huge waste of taxpayer money. I’d rather have the local portion go to re-pave our crumbling roads.

Money for new CSU Campus in Medina
Money for new Tri-C campus in Brunswick.
Money for new Tri-C campus on the border of Lorain County

But no money for a campus in a City with 55,000 people with access to affordable housing, jobs, public transportion, fine library, bars and a jail; everything you need for a modern campus.

The City with 52,131 people, affordable housing, etc is 15 minutes from the downtown campus of Tri-C. Why would you build a campus 15 minutes away from the main campus? Westlake, Brunswick and Medina are far enough away to not cannibalize the existing customer base.

Most students are commuters who live with mom and dad or people with jobs trying to better themselves. Unless Tri-C starts offering 4 year degrees, there is no sense pushing for a campus in Lakewood. Besides, where could you locate a campus of any decent size in Lakewood? Scenic Berea road?