Since We're Quoting Reagan...

[Sean Wheeler]

I've read almost every post in this section of the Deck, and I've seen many Ronald Reagan quotes used to bolster a conservative argument. In the most recent topic thread about social security, Reagan was cited again today. It kind of makes me jealous, not to have such powerful quotes from some past president of Reagan's caliber at my disposal to support a worthy counter-argument. But luckily for me, I found a good one from Reagan that I'd like to use. Ohio Senate Bill 5 is perhaps the boldest anti-union piece of legislation to come down from a state or federal body in quite some time. Ladies and gentleman, I give you The Gipper...

"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland... They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." -RONALD REAGAN Labor Day Address, 1980

Complete Speach at:

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeche ... typark.htm

[Roy Pitchford]

First, I want to say that the Reagan quote is almost convincing. However, a couple disconnected sentences from a speech of almost 2200 words leaves out context.

A little earlier in the speech, he mentioned a man named George Meany. Meany was head of the AFL from 1952-1955, then head of the combined AFL-CIO from 1955 to 1979.

"I spent many hours with the late George Meany, whose love of this country and whose belief in a strong defense against all totalitarians is one of labor’s greatest legacies. One year ago today on Labor Day George Meany told the American people, "As American workers and their families return from their summer vacations, they face growing unemployment and inflation, a climate of economic anxiety and uncertainty.” One year ago, George Meany predicted just exactly what has happened to us."

You know what else George Meany said??

"It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government."

In fact, the AFL-CIO Executive Council, in 1959, issued the following:

"In terms of accepted collective bargaining procedures, government workers have no right beyond the authority to petition Congress — a right available to every citizen."

source: FDR warned us about public sector unions

Now, more directly related to the paragraph of the speech where you found your quote, he's speaking of Poland. My preliminary research shows that 1 day before that speech, a Polish union, called Solidarity, was founded separate from and in opposition to the Communist party. There had been riots in the months leading up to its formation (the Jastrzebie-Zdroj Strikes and the Lublin Strikes).
Solidarity is described on Wikipedia as being "anti-Soviet". No wonder Reagan would have agreed with it and held them up as an example. They were exercising their freedoms by breaking from the not-so-free "party line" union.
As for collective bargaining, I'm still reading, but I'll let you know what I find.

Second, I thought I'd dig this up...

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters."

source: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445

source: FDR's Warning: Public Employee Unions a No-No

[Sean Wheeler]

We need context when quoting Reagan? I thought just his name was enough.

I'm not going to refute the quotes that you laid out Roy. I disagree with what is happening in this state in regards to Senate Bill 5. If you'd like to see my take on the bill, it's posted in the education section. Your signature indicates that you take most of us for fools anyway. You have every right to agree with the bill and voice your support. I was just testing if the magic of Reagan would miraculously make SB5 go away. In looking at today's news, I don't think it worked.

[Roy Pitchford]

Context is always important. How much do you change the impact of a novel by leaving out some of the details. How much different would the book Moby Dick be if we didn't know why Captain Ahab had a peg-leg?

To be honest, I am not 100% behind SB-5. Its an imperfect bill that could probably use some work.
I will stop over at that other discussion of your and I'll share my opinions regarding unions and the bill in general.

[Stan Austin]

"There you go again!"

Bonzo or Ronald Reagan