School Board notes: Patterson in, ABLE program moved?

[Mike Zannoni]

I was a member of the city's architectural board of review during the planning and design of the rebuilding of Emerson. The housing of the adult education programs at Emerson was part of the plan from day one of my involvement, that goes back about five years at least and the building has been up and running for almost three years, I find it hard to believe that it (the adult programs) being there is a surprise to anyone.
My recollection of the final plans was that the area that housed the adult learners, including the entrance was totally segregated from the areas used by the elementary school. I can't say that that is what exists today on the ground but the building was designed for the two to co-exist.

Bill --

Was it conceived as day time as well as night time as part of the original conception? And it was not controversial at all among the some in the community involved in Phase 1?

These are our neighbors, our children's classmates parents and fellow citizens all trying to improve themselves.

This basic "profile" may have changed since the original concept: My understanding at this point is that some of the adult learners are difficult-to-assimilate adolescents from all over the county being placed there by an institutional entity, who de facto have Lakewood's ABLE-GED course as a requirement. This is not to say that they are not in the broadest sense still our neighbors, but now it may be time to revisit the situation with fuller knowledge.

[Bill Trentel]

Jennifer Scott is the person Lakewood Schools should be fighting to please, not working to alienate.

I think we can all agree on that.

FWIW

Mr. O'Bryan,

Are there people our schools should be fighting to alienate? Your posts seem to say there are. Am I one of them? What the standards used to determine if I am worthy?
I haven't done my city income taxes, will I know when I complete the forms or will I know when I look in the mirror. Will I know by looking at which services I use in the community? Gifted program = good, English as a second language = bad.

Am I worthy?

Bill

[Jim O'Bryan]

Mr. O'Bryan,

Are there people our schools should be fighting to alienate? Your posts seem to say there are. Am I one of them? What the standards used to determine if I am worthy?
I haven't done my city income taxes, will I know when I complete the forms or will I know when I look in the mirror. Will I know by looking at which services I use in the community? Gifted program = good, English as a second language = bad.

Am I worthy?

Bill

Bill

Who am I trying to alienate?

Who is asking if you are worthy?

I was merely asking how the decision was made to put adults in with kids? I am even
asking if you knew before hand, that it would be at the same time? Backgrounds?

I am not asking if you are worthy, I am asking if the process was/is flawed.

Are you saying these questions are not worth looking at?

Education = good
Safety = Good
Clean = Good
Fun = Good

Clean, safe, fun city with educated people = very good

Working to bring all up to that level = very very good.

.

[Colleen Wing]

I love you Jim, too many times you are easy pickings for people to distract from the real conversation and redirect to defense of Lakewood and everone is a racist (or hates the poor) It is okay to point out when things aren't as good as they can be and sometimes bad things happen and it is difficult to balance the facts, concerns, and not be Chicken Little.

I had an incident with some guys going into Emerson last year, which is when I found out about the program. From our conversation they spoke English, so ESL was not their program.

Let us not pretend that all of our School Board members care the same amount. I got a lot of blank stares when I brought it up.

I saw the signs and assumed that the program took place at night. Mrs. Seibel is an OUTSTANDING Principal and if anyone can make it work, she can. Should she have too?

If I had encountered this situation outside Giant Eagle it would have caused pause but iI sure would not have had the conversation I had because it is a public place not my kids school where the standards are and should be exceptionally high.

My concerns were:

Why an elementary school during school hours?
With al of our empty schools why is space an issue?
Why arent these students held to the same standards with conduct and dress code?
We seperate 6th graders from 8th graders but not 5 year olds from 25 year olds?

[Mike Zannoni]

I had an incident with some guys going into Emerson last year

When was it brought to the School Board? Was it at a regular meeting? What was the nature of the incident (aside from the dress code)? Were the guys threatening, intimidating, disrespectful?

Just trying to understand the nature of trouble and its level of "chronicness". Also trying to understand if something changed at some point, and when and why.

[Bill Trentel]

Jennifer Scott is the person Lakewood Schools should be fighting to please, not working to alienate.

I think we can all agree on that.
.

FWIW

Mr. O'Bryan,

You quote indicates that this one person is the one the Lakewood Schools fighting to please. I'm wondering what qualifies one individual over another. Am I one that is "worthy"?
In your subsequent posts you imply that by having curtain services or a curtain number of services available within our community we are flushing our community down the toilet. What are those services? So that we can identify them an those using them and target them as those who should be alienated in order to raise our community up?

Am I one that should be targeted or am I worthy to be pleased?

Bill

[Jim O'Bryan]

Mr. O'Bryan,

You quote indicates that this one person is the one the Lakewood Schools fighting to please. I'm wondering what qualifies one individual over another. Am I one that is "worthy"?
In your subsequent posts you imply that by having curtain services or a curtain number of services available within our community we are flushing our community down the toilet. What are those services? So that we can identify them an those using them and target them as those who should be alienated in order to raise our community up?

Am I one that should be targeted or am I worthy to be pleased?

Bill

Bill

I do not know, are you?

I am not talking of things I do not know of. Should I have put I know of one, maybe there
are others? I know of two people that have been talking about moving this before
something like this happens.

What I am most interested in hearing from you was why did the committee think it was a
good idea to put 25 year old career criminals in with 1st graders? Seriously I am trying to
go light on this subject, and not blow the city or the board up. Just trying to understand
how it happened. I was just let go from a company I own, they thought after looking at
my past performance AGS could do better. I agreed after looking at the facts. This is not
a witch hunt, this is a simple question on why, a very simple question for someone on the
committee. If you want me on trial for something let's start a new thread and I will try
to answer the questions.

As for me not wanting... That is just BS. My statement was lets make sure we can take
care of what we have before we invite more. This is not a person arriving on a bus and
looking for an apartment. This is people in this city working to bring in busload after
busload of people that will drain our services. Let's be honest the last mayor gutted Health
and Human Services, which I am sure need a little trimming. But if population is down,
taxes down people in need of city services up, we are headed for disaster. Aren't we?

Bill, if they make it here, they are my neighbor and I want the best for them. I do not care
how much they make, if English is even a language they know, or what color they are. To
me, community is all about norms and behavior.

FWIW


.

[Bill Trentel]

What I am most interested in hearing from you was why did the committee think it was a
good idea to put 25 year old career criminals in with 1st graders? Seriously I am trying to
go light on this subject, and not blow the city or the board up. Just trying to understand
how it happened. I was just let go from a company I own, they thought after looking at
my past performance AGS could do better. I agreed after looking at the facts. This is not
a witch hunt, this is a simple question on why, a very simple question for someone on the
committee. If you want me on trial for something let's start a new thread and I will try
to answer the questions.

I thought I had address my involvement In the placement of this program at Emerson, I HAD NONE. I was only involved in the architectural design process. The placement of the program was predetermined, (not part of our discussion). My primary point in my initial post was that the placement of this program at Emerson was part of the rebuilding plan from the earliest point of the planning process and had plenty of open, transparent public exposer. No back room deals hidden from public view. Also the facility was design to have the two populations totally separated within the building.

Bill

[Jim O'Bryan]

I thought I had address my involvement In the placement of this program at Emerson, I HAD NONE. I was only involved in the architectural design process. The placement of the program was predetermined, (not part of our discussion). My primary point in my initial post was that the placement of this program at Emerson was part of the rebuilding plan from the earliest point of the planning process and had plenty of open, transparent public exposer. No back room deals hidden from public view. Also the facility was design to have the two populations totally separated within the building.
Bill

Bill

Thank you. Sorry for the buildup. not accusing anyone, just trying to understand the process.

.

[Bill Trentel]

This has been an interesting discussion but lets face it NIMBY will rule the day. As is always the case with this board, their constituents will get what they want, without regard of what is best for the program, its good students or the community at-large. They will find a place for it where the "important" people won't be affected or offended by it being there.

I'm not saying that changes should not be considered and made but they should be made for the right reasons with everyones needs discussed and considered in full public view. Not a knee jerk reaction to one incident. To appease the boards chosen constituents.

Bill

[Jim O'Bryan]

This has been an interesting discussion but lets face it NIMBY will rule the day. As is always the case with this board, their constituents will get what they want, without regard of what is best for the program, its good students or the community at-large. They will find a place for it where the "important" people won't be affected or offended by it being there.

I'm not saying that changes should not be considered and made but they should be made for the right reasons with everyones needs discussed and considered in full public view. Not a knee jerk reaction to one incident. To appease the boards chosen constituents.

Bill

Bill

NIMBY must not rule the day, what needs to rule the day is what is best for the city and in
the case of schools, the students as well. I believe from reading many of your other posts
that you did care about the students in your work here, and elsewhere.

I do not have kids, I have very little in this fight. However I have detected a case of "well
at least they are..." Running a city is not rocket science. Running a school system, maybe.

Over the last handful of elections I keep hearing, "Well XXXX is a nice person." I would
rather here, "XXXXXX is a qualified person." This is where Steve Davis has won me over
with a City Manager. While I admit at the end of the day a human is a human, and they
have all the weaknesses of any human, but to hire a professional would be a refreshing
change. We have a very unique, nice, diverse city. We are winning the war when compared
with many other suburbs. We must work to continue to be, the best place to live and
raise a family. A city dedicated to Education and fun for all.

Thanks again for kicking it, you always bring a fresh outlook.

.

[Scott Meeson]

It's my belief that all our school board members are FREINDS of education. They all appear to have a deep (emotional) relationship with our schools. Maybe, just maybe they want to be protective of their friend too. In some cases, some school board members may believe that full transparency can be more harmful than helpful. That it is best to keep some information in the closet...as it can do no good disseminating it to the public. The overall goal of maintaining our schools in a good light. The naturing of a friend is honorable.

Scott

I am going out on a limb here and say once again. The difference between Jim O'Bryan
is far different than that of the school board.

I am not asking for anyone to out a friend, far from it. I am just looking at the critical
thought that went into this decision as it is something that I believe no one wants to see
repeated. Jim O'Bryan is under no "sunshine law" at least not yet. When I chose not to
release the name of a friend, which serves no one in the narrative, but protects his safety,
it is far different from the Board protecting someone from a mistake they made, that has
led to an event like this.

At the end of the day we will all be judged by our words and actions, and I suppose that
is why we started the Observer. So at least we could know who we were looking at an why.

I hope this answer satisfies what you are looking for.

If not, just let me know and I will try again.

.

Jim,

Yes, you personally are not subject to the “sunshine laws.” I am referring to your communications that fall within the scope of entities that are subject to the sunshine laws. When you receive or uncover information that involves these entities... do you then exercise you own values and judgments of what and how it will be communicated to the public? Limiting the public’s transparency through your own eyes.


Just asking as I’m curious.


Scott Meeson.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Would like to take this pause to clear up a couple misconceptions in my thought process,
and my points of discussion.

1) Career criminals, first, even they have rights after serving time. Second I have no proof
that career criminals(repeated history of crime) being in that school. If I understand some
comments from those that would know correctly, neither does anyone else. When a juvenile
serves time and is released as an adult their records are expunged. To give them the fresh
start they have in our system of justice. I am not saying this is a bad thing. Second and
even third chances are sometimes warranted. I took the point to the wall, to ask what was
the committee told? What are parents told?

2) Social Services, Lakewood Family Collaborative, before I am lunched at the next
meeting by some of the finest people we have in Lakewood. I sit at Lakewood Family
Collaborative meetings and hear the wonderful programs that are here. But I also see
people and talk with managers of their programs and they are financially stressed,
sometimes overworked, in need of more volunteers than ever before. Trish Rooney who
I have not seen at a Collab meeting but runs Lakewood Christian Service has talked about
the need for her programs have doubled, but donations have not. My point was, doesn't
it make sense to secure the great programs that are here, help to get them funded before
we allow groups like Lutheran Ministries, Catholic Charities, and others literately dump
more in need in mass into this city? Does the city have any right or say in what comes in
as a group home, dorm, etc. I am all for helping those down on their luck, to get educated
and the tools they need to get back on their feet. I completely agree that many cannot
care for themselves for one reason or another, and they need and deserve our help as
fellow humans. My question should be, at what point does it change the complete
feel of the city? 5%, 10%, 25% 50%? And at what point do we start to drive out or
alienate those paying taxes? At what point do we start to drive down property values?
I am not talking of White Flight, that is simply stupid fear. What I am talking about is
the financial collapse of the city. What I am talking about is making it easy or even
desirable for criminal activities here?

My point in the other thread is there is a lot of crime in this town brought on or invited
to Lakewood by ourselves. I have been talking with people moving here for years about
why they choose Lakewood for their home. It is often quiet refreshing and enlightening.
It allows me to think about what would bring in more like MINDED people. Young families
of all ages and colors that want their children to have safe homes, good schools, in a
walkable friendly safe community. I think it would be interesting to do the same with
criminals. Why did you choose Lakewood for your act of violence? It could allow us to
plan for the future better, and make the city less friendly to criminals, which would make it
more attractive to non-criminals.

I do not see this city out of control or out of whack so much. But between economic
development which has its place, and social service programs coming to Lakewood and
bringing their case studies with them, I do wonder where Lakewood is headed? Does
anyone know? Is there a plan? Does anyone care? Am I just old and grumpy? The other
day in a fascinating conversation with some of us and one of our new star writers, the
term came up that all we were doing is eating frosting. Which reminded me of the
comment are we frosting a cake that is yet baked? Can a city of residents live on frosting?

FWIW


.

[jennifer scott]

Bill,

I don't think this is a "knee jerk" reaction on anyones part. I just found out that there are adults attending school in the same building as children at the same time. Regardless of what happened...I have an issue with this. Now that I am aware of what is going on I can't just sit back and say "oh well. let's hope nothing else happens"
Again, I don't think anyone is saying end the program....simply move it somewhere else or change the time.

Of course, I also have a choice...continue at Emerson or move my daughter elsewhere.
It would be a shame to have to leave such a great school, fantastic teachers and staff and a wonderful group of kids and families. We shall see.........

[Colleen Wing]

Bill,

Which of your kids go to school there? Last year I had a fifth grader and this year I have a kindergarter. Maybe it isn't so much of a NIMBY for me as an EFMTSBMKITAW for you. (Easy for me to say because my kid isn't there anyway)