School Board notes: Patterson in, ABLE program moved?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Valerie

Of course you are one of the voices of sanity to my trying to get there.

You are correct.

Any other questions you need answer?


.

Yes, what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? African or European. I'm not picky.

http://10000birds.com/air-speed-velocity-of-an-unladen-swallow.htm




You just have to love the 21st Century!


.

[Christina McCallum]

I appreciate the conversation going on here about ABLE and Emerson, as I also have a child who attends the school. Like any number of others, ABLE's timing and location is the concern, not the program ideal itself.

Might I suggest that people attend the next School Board meeting, which is scheduled for Monday, March 7, at 7 p.m.? Its location this time around is Harrison Elementary School, 2080 Quail Avenue.

I suspect a group of concerned parents and citizens attending a school board meeting could speed up any movement by the board, not to mention provide answers to questions. People in attendance have the opportunity to ask questions and express concerns during the Communications section of the meeting.

If you are not able to attend an evening meeting, email or write a letter to the school board and copy the administrators.

[Mike Zannoni]

. . .what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? African or European. I'm not picky.

It has been estimated at 11 m/sec , or 24 miles/hour (European). (http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/). Being non-human, it is prohibited from entering the ABLE program at any speed.

[Valerie Molinski]

. . .what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? African or European. I'm not picky.

It has been estimated at 11 m/sec , or 24 miles/hour (European). (http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/). Being non-human, it is prohibited from entering the ABLE program at any speed.

+1 to Mike.

And the question still hasn't been answered, FWIW.

[Mike Zannoni]

And the question still hasn't been answered, FWIW.

I believe Jim is referring to the earlier (Jim-initiated) thread entitled "Crime In Lakewood - Are We Bringing It On Ourselves?" (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9872)

It certainly doesn't answer all questions, but apparently, it will be covered more fully in the next printed Observer.

[Charlie Page]

There was a joint City Council / School Board meeting at Emerson maybe a couple years ago. When leaving I remember seeing people in the ABLE program and thinking what a great idea. But I had no idea there are ABLE classes during the daytime when school is in session until now. Not a good idea.

Finally, during the Communication portion of the meeting, School Board Member Ed Favre made a strong request that the Adult Education program, ABLE, that is currently housed at Emerson Elementary be either moved, or conducted at a time when elementary school children are not on the same site. There was an incident outside the school last week that had everyone taking a second look at the wisdom of putting two such different populations together. I stood up to chime in from the parents angle to let the Board know that I thought it was a very good idea to move the program, and to tell them that most parents didn't even know that program was being held in that building at the same time as elementary school was in session. Dr. Madak said that the administration was in the process of getting it done.

Did the other board members have any comment on this? Any non verbal reaction/communication?

Does this require action by the board or can the administration get it done on it’s own? Did Dr. Madak give a time frame for getting it done?

And the question still hasn't been answered, FWIW.

Jim – you post in great detail about a stabbing that happened in Lakewood but clam up on this incident. What’s up with that? What happened to open, honest and transparent communication?

[Bill Call]

Finally, during the Communication portion of the meeting, School Board Member Ed Favre made a strong request that the Adult Education program, ABLE, that is currently housed at Emerson Elementary be either moved, or conducted at a time when elementary school children are not on the same site. There was an incident outside the school last week that had everyone taking a second look at the wisdom of putting two such different populations together.

Over one year ago several parents complained to me about the program. I told them to email the school board. It's a shame that there had to be an incident before anyone took any action.

Adult education use to be avialable at night at local schools. You could take high school level classes or college classes through Tri-C. That seemed a very cost effective way to offer classes close to the place where people lived.

Those classes are now offered at Tri-C's new campus in Westlake. Perhaps the adult education classes can be offered there as well. It's only 20 minutes away. If they want to use public transportaton its only 45 minutes away.

[Jim O'Bryan]

And the question still hasn't been answered, FWIW.

Jim – you post in great detail about a stabbing that happened in Lakewood but clam up on this incident. What’s up with that? What happened to open, honest and transparent communication?

Charlie

I did not post in great detail about the stabbing. I held things back, right or wrong. The
family that are friends of mine and post here on the Deck has wanted their son's name left
out of it. I posted the original post to make us aware of what was out there and to help
catch the bastard. To me, all of the rest of the story including the name of the victim, and
who called it in, are non issues that simply serve the community, the victim, or those that
called in the crime in anyway. It adds nothing to the story, and even less to the security
of this city. Which was the point of the post on Crime, are we inviting it or helping it. The
rest of those posts came directly from Chief Malley, whose job it is to attend to the safety
of this community.

Also please note one small difference. The man involved in the incident near Emerson, was
caught by the police within minutes of it happening. HE WAS CAUGHT. The stabber who
basically should be tried for attempted murder, because we came very close to talking
about murder, as my friend laid bleeding out waiting for the ambulances to take him to
Metro or Fairview was not caught. The police were desperately looking for him. If you go
back and look I posted the description before the police. This was a very dangerous person
still in our community. Someone we needed to be aware of. The other guy will not see
freedom for at least 3-5 years and if the story is finished correctly 8 years. I have zero
tolerance for violent offenders.

Then we got to the fact that the Board is actively working on it, and some members told
asked me to let them try to move it while I was writing my piece on safety in Lakewood
and I agreed. You know, Lakewood did not get to this point overnight, and it will not
change back with a swish of the School Board's Magic Wand, no matter how bad we wish it.
The very real fact is there is a pattern of benign neglect, as one LO Board Member called
it, on another subject. Where instead of results we are happy with, "At least they are
trying." Where many are not held accountable, while others some who have no legal
reason to be open and transparent are called upon to be so. I could use and example of
this mindset but would be accused of beating a dead horse. This town, for those that are
privy to a wider view can see very clearly that it is run with peer pressure, winks and nods,
back room deals and keep it quiet. I would compare it to high school club mentality. When
and elected official actually takes a stand for accountability and transparency he is trashed
marginalized, and the "power base" of this town prepare to throw everything possible
against him in an up-coming election because "he is a cancer."

Christina McCallum is one of the soundest fairest good people I know in this town. I would
say support going to schoolboard meeting, but let's give them time to work this out. It
might take more than two weeks. If the wheels are in motion, then they deserve support
and help. If they are not then it is time for parents to say WTF.

THE BIGGER ISSUE NOW IS, how did this happen? I have noticed Bill has not stepped back
in to explain how this even came about. Did the committee understand there could be
career criminals attending school with 1st graders, or were they misled? Was this the only
way Emerson could be rebuilt preserving the historic aspect of the school, and if so is there
no way to move the program, or even change the hours? Was this another case of trading
our cow for some magic beans in some back room deal that has been hushed up?

Though it is a long painful read, "Slaughter of Cities" really sheds some light on what is
going on in this region, and even this town. It is an interesting dynamic "change" there
are many real sides, and many right sides, it should all depend on what is right for the
community, and those that live in it, and it is a very personal decision that often leads
to utter frustration, disappointment as often as it leads to fame and riches. The Euclid
Corridor is a perfect example. Good for the city? At what cost? For who? And why?
Compare the Euclid Corridor Project with the Midtown Corridor project, nearly same
results. One respected those there, the other forced them out. Both had goals of bettering
the area, one worked with what was there, the other turned their back on what was there
and even broke the will, spirit, and bank accounts of the people there.

To go back to Valerie's request for the story. The man was arrested, our very overworked
police did an unbelievable job, at a time we as a community are adding to their workload.
Case(s) solved. Now is the time to look at how we got to this point. Let's look at the
critical thought, that got us to this place and time, because it will shed a light on where we
are headed in this town of hush hush, wink wink. Those who do not know history are
forced to repeat it. Until they are no more.


FWIW

.

[Scott Meeson]

And the question still hasn't been answered, FWIW.

Jim – you post in great detail about a stabbing that happened in Lakewood but clam up on this incident. What’s up with that? What happened to open, honest and transparent communication?

Charlie

I did not post in great detail about the stabbing. I held things back, right or wrong. The
family that are friends of mine and post here on the Deck has wanted their son's name left
out of it. I posted the original post to make us aware of what was out there and to help
catch the bastard. To me, all of the rest of the story including the name of the victim, and
who called it in, are non issues that simply serve the community, the victim, or those that
called in the crime in anyway. It adds nothing to the story, and even less to the security
of this city. Which was the point of the post on Crime, are we inviting it or helping it. The
rest of those posts came directly from Chief Malley, whose job it is to attend to the safety
of this community.

Also please note one small difference. The man involved in the incident near Emerson, was
caught by the police within minutes of it happening. HE WAS CAUGHT. The stabber who
basically should be tried for attempted murder, because we came very close to talking
about murder, as my friend laid bleeding out waiting for the ambulances to take him to
Metro or Fairview was not caught. The police were desperately looking for him. If you go
back and look I posted the description before the police. This was a very dangerous person
still in our community. Someone we needed to be aware of. The other guy will not see
freedom for at least 3-5 years and if the story is finished correctly 8 years. I have zero
tolerance for violent offenders.

Then we got to the fact that the Board is actively working on it, and some members told
asked me to let them try to move it while I was writing my piece on safety in Lakewood
and I agreed. You know, Lakewood did not get to this point overnight, and it will not
change back with a swish of the School Board's Magic Wand, no matter how bad we wish it.
The very real fact is there is a pattern of benign neglect, as one LO Board Member called
it, on another subject. Where instead of results we are happy with, "At least they are
trying." Where many are not held accountable, while others some who have no legal
reason to be open and transparent are called upon to be so. I could use and example of
this mindset but would be accused of beating a dead horse. This town, for those that are
privy to a wider view can see very clearly that it is run with peer pressure, winks and nods,
back room deals and keep it quiet. I would compare it to high school club mentality. When
and elected official actually takes a stand for accountability and transparency he is trashed
marginalized, and the "power base" of this town prepare to throw everything possible
against him in an up-coming election because "he is a cancer."

Christina McCallum is one of the soundest fairest good people I know in this town. I would
say support going to schoolboard meeting, but let's give them time to work this out. It
might take more than two weeks. If the wheels are in motion, then they deserve support
and help. If they are not then it is time for parents to say WTF.

THE BIGGER ISSUE NOW IS, how did this happen? I have noticed Bill has not stepped back
in to explain how this even came about. Did the committee understand there could be
career criminals attending school with 1st graders, or were they misled? Was this the only
way Emerson could be rebuilt preserving the historic aspect of the school, and if so is there
no way to move the program, or even change the hours? Was this another case of trading
our cow for some magic beans in some back room deal that has been hushed up?

Though it is a long painful read, "Slaughter of Cities" really sheds some light on what is
going on in this region, and even this town. It is an interesting dynamic "change" there
are many real sides, and many right sides, it should all depend on what is right for the
community, and those that live in it, and it is a very personal decision that often leads
to utter frustration, disappointment as often as it leads to fame and riches. The Euclid
Corridor is a perfect example. Good for the city? At what cost? For who? And why?
Compare the Euclid Corridor Project with the Midtown Corridor project, nearly same
results. One respected those there, the other forced them out. Both had goals of bettering
the area, one worked with what was there, the other turned their back on what was there
and even broke the will, spirit, and bank accounts of the people there.

To go back to Valerie's request for the story. The man was arrested, our very overworked
police did an unbelievable job, at a time we as a community are adding to their workload.
Case(s) solved. Now is the time to look at how we got to this point. Let's look at the
critical thought, that got us to this place and time, because it will shed a light on where we
are headed in this town of hush hush, wink wink. Those who do not know history are
forced to repeat it. Until they are no more.


FWIW

.

Hello Jim,

So, limited transparency has its place.

I think that could create a slippery slope for both sides of the aisle.

Scott

[Jim O'Bryan]

Hello Jim,

So, limited transparency has its place.

I think that could create a slippery slope for both sides of the aisle.

Scott

Scott

I think I am missing the point here. Or at least I believe I am.

Transparency is a very slippery slope, as is reporting, talking, and even development.

Newton was correct "for every action there is an equal an opposite reaction."

Can you go a little deeper?

.

[Scott Meeson]

Hello Jim,

So, limited transparency has its place.

I think that could create a slippery slope for both sides of the aisle.

Scott

Scott

I think I am missing the point here. Or at least I believe I am.

Transparency is a very slippery slope, as is reporting, talking, and even development.

Newton was correct "for every action there is an equal an opposite reaction."

Can you go a little deeper?

.

Jim,

It's my belief that all our school board members are FREINDS of education. They all appear to have a deep (emotional) relationship with our schools. Maybe, just maybe they want to be protective of their friend too. In some cases, some school board members may believe that full transparency can be more harmful than helpful. That it is best to keep some information in the closet...as it can do no good disseminating it to the public. The overall goal of maintaining our schools in a good light. The nurturing of a friend is honorable.

[Jim O'Bryan]

It's my belief that all our school board members are FREINDS of education. They all appear to have a deep (emotional) relationship with our schools. Maybe, just maybe they want to be protective of their friend too. In some cases, some school board members may believe that full transparency can be more harmful than helpful. That it is best to keep some information in the closet...as it can do no good disseminating it to the public. The overall goal of maintaining our schools in a good light. The naturing of a friend is honorable.

Scott

I am going out on a limb here and say once again. The difference between Jim O'Bryan
is far different than that of the school board.

I am not asking for anyone to out a friend, far from it. I am just looking at the critical
thought that went into this decision as it is something that I believe no one wants to see
repeated. Jim O'Bryan is under no "sunshine law" at least not yet. When I chose not to
release the name of a friend, which serves no one in the narrative, but protects his safety,
it is far different from the Board protecting someone from a mistake they made, that has
led to an event like this.

At the end of the day we will all be judged by our words and actions, and I suppose that
is why we started the Observer. So at least we could know who we were looking at an why.

I hope this answer satisfies what you are looking for.

If not, just let me know and I will try again.

.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Scott

A little ps on this note. I am not saying the Board is not dedicated to education. Far from it.
I know that deep down inside all are very dedicated to the Schools, but they also have
other input and agendas outside the schools. Not necessarily a bad thing.

This is why I am looking at why and how the decision was made. If there is a pattern of bad
decisions, and "looking after the good name of the schools" there might be a bigger issue.
If there is a constant stream of bad decisions then we should all know and talk. This is why
accountability and transparency is a good thing. Or at least far better than sweeping
everything under the rug until the rug is so bumpy people go what is going on.

With everything I have learned this past year, I am curious to how and why many of the
decisions with the new schools have been made the way they did.

My part in this conversation is not to out the schools, or make them or the city look bad.

.

[Mike Zannoni]

... Over one year ago several parents complained to me about the program. I told them to email the school board.

What was the nature of the complaints, if you can say?

Was it the primarily the fact of adults/adolescents being educated in proximity to children? Or was it the ineffectiveness of the "segregation" of these learners from the children? Or was it the demeanor and/or actions of the adults/adolescents (e.g. loitering, smoking, swearing, fighting, etc.)?

Or were the complaints about all of these, or something different altogether?

Knowing about what the problems may have been will help in either approving or not approving of what the school board will be doing, and apparently they are moving it, or at least the day session.

Does anyone here know how this offering went from nights only to daytime also, without the public (and especially parents) noticing the change? Was it the School Board or another agency? This would need to be known for policy to be changed in such a way that it doesn't go down this way in the future.

Bill, sorry to not be in the know, but why were parents complaining to you specifically?

[Bill Trentel]

THE BIGGER ISSUE NOW IS, how did this happen? I have noticed Bill has not stepped back
in to explain how this even came about. Did the committee understand there could be
career criminals attending school with 1st graders, or were they misled? Was this the only
way Emerson could be rebuilt preserving the historic aspect of the school, and if so is there
no way to move the program, or even change the hours? Was this another case of trading
our cow for some magic beans in some back room deal that has been hushed up?


.

Jim,
I haven't been avoiding the conversation, sorry work, moving snow, family... all got in my way.

My knowledge/history on the placement of this program only really relates to the design of the rebuilt schools. I served as a member of the city's Board of Building Standards / Architectural Board of Review / Sign Review and as a citizen member of a group that made recommendations and reviewed the plans for the rebuilding of the Horace Mann and Emerson. The decision of which programs would be housed at which building was made before the involvement of either of the groups I was a member of. What I do know is that both of the former middle schools where to large to only house an elementary school for the number of students the district was looking to educate there. The State funding that was used has precise requirements, building size, site size, everything. Anything beyond the standards requires a waiver and must be funded locally. I don't know if the placement of these programs in these buildings provided any additional funding or funding sources it was not part of our discussions. Basically the state funding was designed to build generic one story buildings on large greenfield sites. All the historic details and nice stuff was locally funded. So the Horace Mann building was designed to include the CHAMPS program and the Emerson building was designed to include the Adult learning programs. All of the meetings I was part of were open to the public there were a lot of meetings. Additionally there were numerous public hearings on the designs. I did not notice any winking or nodding, smokey back room deals or any of the suspicious behavior that has been alleged. But now that I think about it I do have that weedy vine I have to hack down every summer, it also explains the missing cow too.

Bill