Walkable City?

[Will Brown]

When I was young, a millennium or so ago, everyone who was able shoveled their own sidewalks; kids went through the neighborhoods to shovel because it was a good way to make money. I had to shovel our walk, and our neighbors, since he was elderly. Merchants also cleared their sidewalks. And it was all done with no help from the government, just because people recognized it was a civic duty, part of home ownership or rental. When we moved back here after I spent some years playing soldier, it was starting to change. I shoveled my own walk, and my neighbor's since he was elderly, but the neighbor on the other side, with two sons, didn't bother, unless he had trouble getting out of his driveway, and then he would only do his driveway, not the sidewalk. I was sort of hoping a younger neighbor would do mine when I got old, but it hasn't happened (the getting old happened, but the shoveling didn't).

Today no kids come around trying to shovel for money, and only two or three sidewalks on our block ever get shoveled, although many people do their driveway. The department of ageing has a program to shovel for the aged or disabled, but they only do the driveway, not the sidewalk, and that only if your income is low enough.

I think we are living in an age of declining civilization. When people once felt a responsibility to their neighbors and their community, they now feel no such obligation. Perhaps its because the government has taught us that they will take care of us, or perhaps it is because we are so wrapped up with our televisions, computers, and games that actual human contact is rarer. But I know the schoolkids still walk those sidewalks, and few if any of us feel any obligation to keep them clear.

The most troubling bit to me is that this appears to be a uniquely American disease. I travel a lot and don't see this in other countries. and I noticed that most of the merchants here who keep their sidewalks clear have rather heavy accents.

[Kristine Pagsuyoin]

Today no kids come around trying to shovel for money, and only two or three sidewalks on our block ever get shoveled,

Most kids I know are living "adult" lives already without having to be asked to shovel neighbors driveways. Kids, as in the past, are great! But, their lives are different then in the past--even when I was growing up in the 80's. They usually already have a job, are bogged down academically with more pressure to get scholarships and make the grades to get into the right college, they are involved with clubs and volunteer groups in the community because colleges demand it, and for many who live in single-family homes they may be helping with dinner, housework, or caring for younger siblings. Many hardly have the time to be a kid. I am very turned-off when I hear or read people clumping our kids together and make it out like they are all bad--or the parents that are raising them. You don't have to go far to see the accomplishments that are made by our kids everyday in our schools and in our community. Our kids are great and deserve some credit. Really, kids not shoveling is not the problem.

The problem is that we pay taxes, and high taxes in Lakewood, for services such as snow removal. Snow removal is the responsibility of the city. Snow removal is the issue on this thread and not the decline of civilization because kids don't shovel snow. By they way, I will let my neighbor kid know, who offers to shovel for free, that he isn't doing enough to remove snow for the city.

[Ryan Salo]

I agree with everyone that the sidewalks need to be cleared. I do not expect, nor would I want the city or the school system to clear my sidewalk. Both the city and the school system are running on extremely tight budgets and this should not take the place of other services. HOWEVER, I do believe that the current Mayor has a RESPONSIBILITY to ENFORCE current laws for the SAFETY of our kids and other walkers. Right now a lot of people could care less because they are not personally affected. They don't care about the postal workers or the kids. If people get cited for not clearing their sidewalk maybe they would be more willing to pay a kid $3 or $4 to shovel it or get off their duff and do it themselves. Based on my neighborhood, and I can only speak for this area, it is not just the elderly that are not clearing the sidewalks. The city needs to cite people that don't clear their sidewalk and look into the liability issues of clearing others sidewalks. If there is a legal way to keep people from being liable I think block leaders could be established and neighborhoods could voluntarily chip in for the cost of gas to have 1 or 2 people do a 20 minute run down the street. I know I would be willing to pay someone with a huge snowblower a buck or two every time it snows a lot to just clear my sidewalk.

I think the bottom line is that sometimes people don't do things that are inconvenient until there are consequences or rewards. In this case I think the city has a RESPONSIBILITY to give people an incentive in order to prevent someone from getting really hurt. The laws are in the books, just like a lot of others that get ignored (housing), lets hold these officials responsible.

[J Hrlec]

I think this discussion has come up every single winter on this board since it started, but nothing has changed. Actually it's pretty much been the same as long as I can remember since I've grown up in Lakewood.

Yes it's annoying, and yes there should be something done. Although, I'm not so sure what the answer is.

Every year I can't help but think the same thing.

You can't really force people to shovel, you can try to enforce the rule as a city.

MAYBE it is the cities responsibility but this has been on ongoing on for years and not much has changed.



Posting rants on the Internet year after year obviously isn't doing the job, so get out there and meet with your city and school reps if this is a crushing issue for you. Maybe form a group and buy a snowblower. Take turns cleaning these areas until action is taken by the city or citizens. It is easy to talk, less so to do.

If citizens care so much about this issue, it is hard for me to take it seriously when it "seems" they simply complain online and expect something to happen?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Posting rants on the Internet year after year obviously isn't doing the job, so get out there and meet with your city and school reps if this is a crushing issue for you. Maybe form a group and buy a snowblower. Take turns cleaning these areas until action is taken by the city or citizens. It is easy to talk, less so to do.

If citizens care so much about this issue, it is hard for me to take it seriously when it "seems" they simply complain online and expect something to happen?

J Hrlec

While I agree with the concept and our words. I feel Ryan Salo might be closer to the
solution. I am sick and tired of making excuses for bad behavior, and anti social behavior.
I am tired of hearing too busy.

The very real truth to this is. As long as you shovel your walks, you have a modicum of
legal protection, unless someone can prove gross negligence on your part. Like making
a sled run of ice over the sidewalk.

When you buy a house, in this city their are laws for length of grass, paint, yard
maintenance even what can't be in that yard and where. Are sidewalks not the same?

In a city that bills itself as "A walkable community" re not the care of walkable surfaces
important? Or do we grade everyone on a curve because it was 3" - 5"?

This city, this community has some thinking to do.

I love the fact that you come with ideas, and want to get people together. This is certainly
a start in the right direction. But at some point, we also have to be responsible for
ourselves, to build that better community.

FWIW

[Scott Meeson]

Posting rants on the Internet year after year obviously isn't doing the job, so get out there and meet with your city and school reps if this is a crushing issue for you. Maybe form a group and buy a snowblower. Take turns cleaning these areas until action is taken by the city or citizens. It is easy to talk, less so to do.

If citizens care so much about this issue, it is hard for me to take it seriously when it "seems" they simply complain online and expect something to happen?

J Hrlec

While I agree with the concept and our words. I feel Ryan Salo might be closer to the
solution. I am sick and tired of making excuses for bad behavior, and anti social behavior.
I am tired of hearing too busy.

The very real truth to this is. As long as you shovel your walks, you have a modicum of
legal protection, unless someone can prove gross negligence on your part. Like making
a sled run of ice over the sidewalk.

When you buy a house, in this city their are laws for length of grass, paint, yard
maintenance even what can't be in that yard and where. Are sidewalks not the same?

In a city that bills itself as "A walkable community" re not the care of walkable surfaces
important? Or do we grade everyone on a curve because it was 3" - 5"?

This city, this community has some thinking to do.

I love the fact that you come with ideas, and want to get people together. This is certainly
a start in the right direction. But at some point, we also have to be responsible for
ourselves, to build that better community.

FWIW

Thanks for your legal summation.

Understanding:

A few interesting articles on the subject:
http://www.clelaw.lib.oh.us/public/misc/FAQs/Budish_Shovel.html

http://hubpages.com/hub/Can-I-be-sued-if-someone-slips-on-icesnow-that-I-shoveled

http://feyinsuranceblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/shovel-or-not-to-shovel-snow-removal-in.html Special note to focus on the Bexley, Ohio ordinance-Section1(d)

Ohio: Shovel at your own risk.

[Ryan Salo]

Scott,

Thanks for those links. I just took the time to call one of the city council members in Bexley. They are a small walking community without busing as well. This city councilman voted against the ordinance because he didn't see it ever getting enforced, but the results of it just being in the news actually had a positive effect. He said when people realized it was a law more started clearing their sidewalks.

Jim, you may want to run a headline story the beginning of next winter showing the law and maybe have some quotes from city council & school board members. We may see some benefit from just educating people that it is a law and explaining the reason it is there and we may not have to actually enforce it.

[Jerry Ritcey]

The only real choices are stringent fines, enforced regularly (the stick), or invest in sidewalk plows (the carrot, paid for with taxes). The town I grew up in had sidewalk plows, and 1/5th the population, and I can assure you, a much lower population density.

Honestly some cities have similar issues. To get to work on foot in Beachwood, I have to walk over several walks that never see a shovel all season (only the bank bothers). I end up walking behind apartments through the parking lots because the owners bother to plow those for cars.

[Corey Rossen]

Jim - This looks like your car (yellow instead of red). Is it possible for you to strap on your cape and attach the plow to your car to save Lakewood?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim - This looks like your car (yellow instead of red). Is it possible for you to strap on your cape and attach the plow to your car to save Lakewood?

Corey

Perhaps my stance in this discussion is unclear. I am thinking along the lines of Mr. Salo, at
some point we all have to be responsible for ourselves. I know the current trend is to wait
for others "to do something" I have even been told when discussing lack of action that "at
least they are trying" but I am very much a help yourself kind of guy. Even the Observer
project is about, "helping yourself" write the story, post the story, the photos, the results.

Now it is grand when we get the help of others, but I always have tp think at what cost,
what are the pluses and minuses. I am sure you see the same thing. Which builds better
awareness of the Wine store, A Jordan Foundation Fudraiser, or Wine About Lakewood, or
pARTy for the DBLA? Just to use examples you are familiar with? Now they are all
fundraisers, and Rozi's because you have both a huge heart and love for Lakewood, but
they also all build awareness of what a great business your family has in Downtown.

No, at some point we have to take a shovel to the problem. Make friends with neighbors
and share a little of the problem and solution. I hate to break it to you, but I wear no cape,
No one will fly in and save the town before the 30 minute show is over. We must all do what
we can, and I think and have always thought the best place to start is with discussion
and teaching good behavior through example. Yes the O'Bryan's walks are clear and I have
to think we has more footage of walks than most in this city.

As for the car, they do not see snow and are not brought out until after the 5th hard rain
after winter. Salt is a real enemy of old cars.

Thanks as always for providing a wonderful break in the conversation.

.

[Corey Rossen]

Jim - I just had a vision of Charlie Brown's phone conversations.

"Wah wah wah wah wah, no cape, wah wah wah"

Jim, you must have a cape. Maybe it is the lack of phone booths in Lakewood holding you back. I will start a petition to the City Planner to build more booths so you can have a place to change. Rally cry for more phone booths (hopefully they will be WiFi).
Corey

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim - I just had a vision of Charlie Brown's phone conversations.

"Wah wah wah wah wah, no cape, wah wah wah"

Jim, you must have a cape. Maybe it is the lack of phone booths in Lakewood holding you back. I will start a petition to the City Planner to build more booths so you can have a place to change. Rally cry for more phone booths (hopefully they will be WiFi).
Corey

Corey

It would seem that you are the only one with a cape fetish. Maybe you could construct a
phone booth of a beer boxes, and have at it.

No wah, wah here, just looking for people to take responsibility for themselves.

.

[Corey Rossen]

I didn't mean "wah wah" tears, I meant "wah wah wah" jarbled talk from phone calls on the old cartoons. You must remember those phone conversations, parent dialogue, or teacher's instructions from Charlie Brown?

[Kristine Pagsuyoin]

take responsibility for themselves

Jim,

What about the ones who can't take care of themselves?

I want to speak to removal as it pertains to the schools although I do recognize it as a city-wide issue.

I think when we look at the problem we have to view it as a problem we want to improve, but that it may not be completely solvable. I do think if we our promoting ourselves as a "walkable city" or "walkable school district" that we do need to put our best effort forward. Why wouldn't we want to better then other suburbs?
There is no question that we have less funding currently and that we will have less coming from the state in the future. When things get cut or reduced gaps are left. We still need safe sidewalks for our kids, but there is a gap in services or ownership of the problem. So, let's try to improve the conditions one step at a time (maybe there is a slogan here). For instance, could the school district offer seasonal stipends to parents or community members owning snow blowers who would be willing to clear the block the school sits on? A stipend for gas isn't as costly as hiring a private snow removal company.

Secondly, could parents/willing community members (maybe with the help of our PTA/PTO) walk the typical routes and identify the main problem areas. Again, we want to improve the situation--we may not be able to solve all of the issues. However, walking the main routes finding out who lives/has a business along that route will help us to find out if they are unable to shovel sidewalks. A knock on the door, not to accuse, but to dialogue, I think will help us know how we can make the situation better for the person who lives or works along school routes. Maybe there is an elderly woman in a home with no help. We can let her know about services available. We can leave friendly fliers letting people know that safe walkways for the kids is important and if they need help they can call the numbers on the fliers.

Third, reminders sent out city-wide in October, and again in January when school is back in will remind our community that kids need to walk to school and shoveling really helps keep them safe. Various groups can pay for these mailings or drop-offs. I co-founded the “Brake-4-Kids” initiative. We had to talk to the city and get an ordinance passed to put signs on the tree lawns. I believe these serve as good reminders to motorists that kids are back in school and to slow down.

As a last resort, we should start enforcing fines. I don’t think the manpower and funding is there to enforce this kind of fine fairly. Renters should not be responsible for absentee owners, and as I mentioned before, not everyone is capable of shoveling. However, I can’t think of why a major business can’t shovel—that aspect would be easier to enforce.

Lastly, can we work toward changing Ohio law? I have heard about this law for years (posted in this thread), but everyone I have heard talk about it doesn’t support it. Why do we need this law, or can Lakewood pass its own ordinance that wouldn’t hold people accountable for shoveling? This sounds like an issue better left to local governments and not the state.

Yes, this will take some effort. Yes, people will have to do more than complain. I am happy, as most parents, to help fill in the gaps. Just support our concerns and our efforts. We can come together and getting something done if we really want it to happen.

Again, we can work one step at a time to improve conditions for our kids and the schools. Eventually, ideas and efforts can spread to improve the snow removal issue overall in our city.

I would help with getting a group of interested people together who have other ideas or want to help plan. I think a few meetings between the spring and fall next year would probably get it done. We could send out for help in the Observer and through the schools. This is doable.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I didn't mean "wah wah" tears, I meant "wah wah wah" jarbled talk from phone calls on the old cartoons. You must remember those phone conversations, parent dialogue, or teacher's instructions from Charlie Brown?

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I have some clients that used "blah, blah, blah" instead
of actual words. Thought it was something like that but whining.

I really do not see where what Ryan and I are saying does not make sense. And more to the
point if this city really wants to be a "walkable" city and use that in its brand, then we
should work to making it walkable 365 days a year.

I fear this city has learned that it is far easier to say something and claim you did it, then
actually doing it. It is starting to permeate through every layer of society. We should not be
happy with, "At least they are trying..." and learn to accept results.

Thanks again for the clarification.

Because I have learned long ago, when wine is the topic Rozi's is the place to go.
And when whine is the topic, see Corey while at Rozi's

FWIW


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