Downtown Development Delusions
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Bill Call
- Posts: 3319
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:10 pm
Downtown Development Delusions
It’s no secret that Lakewood Center and the Bailey Building and other Lakewood properties are having a hard time finding tenants. That difficulty is shared by properties all over Northeast Ohio:
Rockside Road
http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/ ... /310259978
Downtown Office
http://www.cleveland.com/pdgraphics/ind ... gh_va.html
While privately owned office buildings sit vacant our very own government is working overtime to offer taxpayer subsidies to create new office buildings:
In Beachwood
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index ... 70_mi.html
On the Lakefront:
http://www.eekarchitects.com/community/ ... front-plan
At Playhouse Square:
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index ... its_o.html
Many of our economic problems are self inflicted.
The government spends $100 million to move Eaton to Beachwood which requires the government to spend $100 million on new offices on the lakefront which causes more vacancies in current downtown space which is gobbled up by tax free foundations like Playhouse Square which
• pay no taxes which
• cannot survive without tax subsidies
• which compete with the few remaining tax payers in the downtown area
• which increase vacancy rates
• which brings on the demand for more tax payer subsidies
It seems a strange development policy.
How can Lakewood downtown properties compete? The short answer is that they can’t.
The long term answer is that they can.
Rockside Road
http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/ ... /310259978
Downtown Office
http://www.cleveland.com/pdgraphics/ind ... gh_va.html
While privately owned office buildings sit vacant our very own government is working overtime to offer taxpayer subsidies to create new office buildings:
In Beachwood
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index ... 70_mi.html
On the Lakefront:
http://www.eekarchitects.com/community/ ... front-plan
At Playhouse Square:
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index ... its_o.html
Many of our economic problems are self inflicted.
The government spends $100 million to move Eaton to Beachwood which requires the government to spend $100 million on new offices on the lakefront which causes more vacancies in current downtown space which is gobbled up by tax free foundations like Playhouse Square which
• pay no taxes which
• cannot survive without tax subsidies
• which compete with the few remaining tax payers in the downtown area
• which increase vacancy rates
• which brings on the demand for more tax payer subsidies
It seems a strange development policy.
How can Lakewood downtown properties compete? The short answer is that they can’t.
The long term answer is that they can.
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Corey Rossen
- Posts: 1663
- Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:09 pm
Re: Downtown Development Delusions
As a downtown Lakewood business owner and landlord - that is the million dollar question. Rates are becoming such competition that no one wins except the tenant. It's a matter of just how close to the bottom line you can offer (rental rates) before offering to point of losing some money just to cut losses.
Corey
Corey
Corey Rossen
"I have neither aligned myself with SLH, nor BL." ~ Jim O'Bryan
"I am not neutral." ~Jim O'Bryan
"I am not here to stir up anything." ~Jim O'Bryan
"I have neither aligned myself with SLH, nor BL." ~ Jim O'Bryan
"I am not neutral." ~Jim O'Bryan
"I am not here to stir up anything." ~Jim O'Bryan
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sharon kinsella
- Posts: 1490
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:54 am
- Contact:
Re: Downtown Development Delusions
Ask the slumlord of the Cliffs.
"When I dare to be powerful -- to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid." - Audre Lorde
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Bill Call
- Posts: 3319
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:10 pm
Re: Downtown Development Delusions
Corey Rossen wrote: Rates are becoming such competition that no one wins except the tenant. It's a matter of just how close to the bottom line you can offer (rental rates) before offering to point of losing some money just to cut losses.
Corey
Which is why I don't understand the millions in subsidies paid by the County and the State to subsidize the construction of new office buildings. Well, I guess I do. Politcally well connnected people can get those subsidies. Large companies that threaten to move out of town can get those subsidies. I think it a fools game.
It's like the Cleveland Clinics construction of new hospitals in Avon and Medina. There are fewer people in this region and yet the Clinic is intent on spending billions of dollars to build new facilities. Those facilties compete with existing medical infrastructure but add nothing to the quality of the regions medical treatments. In some sense it makes it worse.
I think that local governments can do something to stop the insanity. The first step is to speak up.
Jim O' is mostly right about housing being the key to Lakewoods future. What is under appreciated is the affect subsidies for new housng downtown damage housing in Lakewood.
If tens of thousands of people were moving into this region every day and people were living in their cars because of a housing shortage I guess subidising the construciton of new housing would make sense.
In the absence of a housing shortage those subsidies hallow out existing communities.
Do we have a housing shortage? Do we have an office space shortage?
- Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Re: Downtown Development Delusions
Bill Call wrote:Corey Rossen wrote:I think that local governments can do something to stop the insanity. The first step is to speak up.
Jim O' is mostly right about housing being the key to Lakewoods future. What is under appreciated is the affect subsidies for new housng downtown damage housing in Lakewood.
If tens of thousands of people were moving into this region every day and people were living in their cars because of a housing shortage I guess subidising the construciton of new housing would make sense.
In the absence of a housing shortage those subsidies hallow out existing communities.
Do we have a housing shortage? Do we have an office space shortage?
Bill
Of course the local government would first have to be aware of this. To my knowledge,
here that is a huge IF, as we chase the dreams of 20 years ago, refusing to understand
how much the world and city has change in the last 20, 15, 10 even 5 years.
As I was doing my homework, I went back and dug up the last plan to the city, and
the infamous "West End" Debacle which (was so criminal we should take the term West
End out of the vocabulary of Lakewoodites. Even the owners of the WestEnd Tavern hate
to be associated with the term when used geographically.), and the latest and greatest,
the Grow Lakewood Power Point Presentation which like the Detroit Streetscape should
never be considered a plan. And all of them a dreadfully out of date, lost in time, and
are chasing things that might as well be the TV/Radio Tube Business.
Lakewood is big enough it could be its own city in the middle of Iowa. So with that thought
we are blessed that we have nearly 2 million people we can market to first as a great place
to live, easy commute anywhere from Cleveland to Akron to Vermilion. We have classic
solid 100 year old homes, that can be rebuilt and rebuilt, and reconfigured. This is what
we have and others cannot build that. This is our strength coupled with what we have in
the immediate area, parks, lake, location.
Office building, yawn so 1990s. Home based businesses! Now we are talking. It was just
20 years ago when working out of your house was considered damn near illegal. Now
everyone is doing it. Cameras are built into everything for conferencing. Entire web sites
constructed to handle teleconferencing between people in 50 or more locations at the
same time. Offices used to make sense, share copiers, fax machines, etc. In 2010 even
doctors are operating from remote locations on patients! Offices are a dead issue.
So luckily, back to homes, and the best place to live and raise a family.
Not a bad place to be. Actually quite nice.
FWIW
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Roy Pitchford
- Posts: 686
- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:38 pm
Re: Downtown Development Delusions
There is definitely a parking shortage.
My company looked at office space in downtown Lakewood more than 3 years ago, but we didn't want to put our staff or potential clients in the position of needing to plug quarters into a meter or pay at a parking garage.
We wanted to be here.
We ended up getting our space in Westlake.
My company looked at office space in downtown Lakewood more than 3 years ago, but we didn't want to put our staff or potential clients in the position of needing to plug quarters into a meter or pay at a parking garage.
We wanted to be here.
We ended up getting our space in Westlake.

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ryan costa
- Posts: 2486
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:31 pm
Re: Downtown Development Delusions
I don't place much stock in the aquatic ape hypothesis of evolution.
but it does explain mankinds penchant for waterfront real estate. rimshot
the highway system was the biggest industrial public works project in U.S. history.
it was the socialism everyone loves. it sure did generate a lot of wealth.
All the developers and big box car salesmen made enough money to become Republicans.
not to mention the bankers and realtors and mortgage brokers. and all the wall street smarties that trickled up to.
but it does explain mankinds penchant for waterfront real estate. rimshot
the highway system was the biggest industrial public works project in U.S. history.
it was the socialism everyone loves. it sure did generate a lot of wealth.
All the developers and big box car salesmen made enough money to become Republicans.
not to mention the bankers and realtors and mortgage brokers. and all the wall street smarties that trickled up to.
"Is this flummery” — Archie Goodwin
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sharon kinsella
- Posts: 1490
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:54 am
- Contact:
Re: Downtown Development Delusions
I was out with friends the other night when the subject of Light Up Lakewood came up.
I was asked what it was. I said it was a holiday event with pretty lights, stuff for little kids, Santa pictures and the downtown stores were open late for shoppers.
The next question was "Where is Downtown Lakewood". I told them "It's the blocks from Lakewood Hospital to the Lakewood Library". "Oh, I never knew that was a downtown, kind of boring and not very inviting." Me - "Well yeah".
Seeing as we have always been a bedroom community, which is one of our attractions, along with nice little parks and beautiful trees, why are we so intent at throwing money at a downtown that does not need to be a focus for Lakewood?
The whole effort is not very successful, has gaping holes and just doesn't resonate. Lots of failed plans, lots of money poured down gaping holes, an organization that is trying to force irrelevant retail space down our throats and is eating CDC money to pay ridiculous salaries to smug, self-involved individuals. Yeah, makes my proud.
I was asked what it was. I said it was a holiday event with pretty lights, stuff for little kids, Santa pictures and the downtown stores were open late for shoppers.
The next question was "Where is Downtown Lakewood". I told them "It's the blocks from Lakewood Hospital to the Lakewood Library". "Oh, I never knew that was a downtown, kind of boring and not very inviting." Me - "Well yeah".
Seeing as we have always been a bedroom community, which is one of our attractions, along with nice little parks and beautiful trees, why are we so intent at throwing money at a downtown that does not need to be a focus for Lakewood?
The whole effort is not very successful, has gaping holes and just doesn't resonate. Lots of failed plans, lots of money poured down gaping holes, an organization that is trying to force irrelevant retail space down our throats and is eating CDC money to pay ridiculous salaries to smug, self-involved individuals. Yeah, makes my proud.
"When I dare to be powerful -- to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid." - Audre Lorde