What Was Said With Cool Cleveland...

[Ryan Patrick Demro]

David/Jim,

It's not my "sense", it's Adam Smith's proven logic. Now, as I previously mentioned, offloading could happen. Offloading does not necessarily mean selling the house either. You could simply abandon it, let it further decay. Depends on the marginal cost. What Jim is proposing is an artificial price increase in the market. Maybe his tenants can afford it and would stay, but would everyone? Not likely if the artificial increase is too much for the market to bear. One of the attractions to Lakewood is "affordable" housing. Affordable is often synonymous for "cheap." Cheap doesn't necessarily mean lousy, but it doesn't mean high-end, decked out, or that it comes with all of the modern appliances etc. So you could give it a try, but if the wisdom of Adam Smith holds true it is unlikely to be a raving success.

[Jim O'Bryan]

So you could give it a try, but if the wisdom of Adam Smith holds true it is unlikely to be a raving success.

Ryan

Don't hang with Smith, but I rent property in Lakewood, and was a renter until I bought here.

Why does as, we have been told, free enterprise and free market work so well until it comes cities, which are nothing more than corporations with products? There we must
conglomerate, join with our competitors and sing Kumbaya for the greater good of East
Cleveland? (East Cleveland I love you, just a name for this example)

With that said...

What are the range of rents in Lakewood right now? Say from a 2 bedroom in Birdtown ,
to a gold coast condo, half of a house say on West Clifton?

What sets the costs of rent? What are the determining factors if you rent or chose to own
rental property? Where does Lakewood fall on that scale? Our prices are low to start with.

Lakewood rents are way to low to start with. If we are to believe or more importantly
capitalize on the hype, they must be worth more now. I am not looking at a new tax that
completely filters into the general fund, I am speaking of program(S) that are there just
to make that MAJOR industry of Lakewood healthy and that other groovy word SUSTAINABLE.

Ryan, while we are asking questions, if you need $4 for a day's adventure, are you better
off taking just $4?, $2 and hope to find $2? or $10? As I mentioned this is one small part
of a "controversial" program, what is always most important is what you do with the
money and more importantly the movement it can help to create.

While you are calling this a tax I want to stress it is not. Cities are going to have to look
at various methods to keep funds out of general fund. Where there are used sometimes
unfairly by those in negotiations against the city. While I know the term "lockbox" is so
old school, but something that needs to be looked at. How can you ask anyone to give
anymore into a slushfund that seems to be set on managing our decline? While the
"management" of a city's decline is very much in vogue, and I prefer slightly higher
goals than decline.


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[Ryan Patrick Demro]

Jim,

First, let me credit you for coming up with an original idea. It's good to test out ideas in a town that is far too reluctant to despite its "coolness." Yet, given that, I must disagree with several notions in your last post.

How do you know the rents are too low? Who decides that and what evidence exists that reveals that? My training in economics tells me that a clear indicator that a price is too low is a lack of the good. If something is too cheap the item becomes hard to find. Is quality rental housing difficult to find in Lakewood? My experience as a renter tells me that it is not. Let's say you wanted to know, you could assess the ads online for the wealth of available units. If one agrees that many units are available, then one could argue the price is already too high, producing a surplus of available housing. So without close scrutiny it can be tough to make a simple determination that rent is too low. The studies that Ken Warren commissioned a couple years ago indicated that the City was becoming younger. A price increase on the future of Lakewood may choke it at a time when it needs that creativity, energy, and slowly rising incomes more than ever.

Lastly, I would argue that housing is only an industry if it produces something. When commonly referred to as the "housing industry," economists and talking heads are referring to new housing construction and gentrification projects. Under all other conditions an "industry" produces a good. Our "housing" industry in Lakewood produces nothing.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,
First, let me credit you for coming up with an original idea. It's good to test out ideas in a town that is far too reluctant to despite its "coolness." Yet, given that, I must disagree with several notions in your last post.

Ryan

Not sure how original it is, just more like common sense. Of course in this town that would
make it ground breaking! As for the cool, have never been a big fan of the word cool. I
believe almost Lakewood resident and now Austin TX resident nailed it when he said, "The
'cool' is a way of controlling/inhabiting the environment with prescribed actions, not
individualistic, but collective. To be 'cool' is to be controlled." Frank Mills' thoughts on "cool."

How do you know the rents are too low? Who decides that and what evidence exists that reveals that? My training in economics tells me that a clear indicator that a price is too low is a lack of the good. If something is too cheap the item becomes hard to find. Is quality rental housing difficult to find in Lakewood? My experience as a renter tells me that it is not. Let's say you wanted to know, you could assess the ads online for the wealth of available units. If one agrees that many units are available, then one could argue the price is already too high, producing a surplus of available housing. So without close scrutiny it can be tough to make a simple determination that rent is too low. The studies that Ken Warren commissioned a couple years ago indicated that the City was becoming younger. A price increase on the future of Lakewood may choke it at a time when it needs that creativity, energy, and slowly rising incomes more than ever.

First off the "Prisim Report" which I believe you are speaking about and is often quoted by
others in this town, is merely of snapshot of right then and there. To take any more than
that from it is a huge mistake. This is like speaking of "The Grow Lakewood Power Point
Presentation" often confused with a study. It is so far out of sync with the current world
and Lakewood's placing in this region it does not even have relevance except to talk about
missed opportunities. If I an not mistaken, the sleeping giant in the stats that was growing
at a faster rate than youth was "Urban Tribal Elders" this was the term used to describe
grandparents that had been given the kids to raise as parents were divorced, in jail on
drugs, working etc. This was seen as a potential nightmare as Elders go to bed at 8pm
while their youthful charges sneak out and create havoc. There was a Prism Report started
last year but the numbers were so troubling it was shelved to my knowledge.

No Ryan, I know it is too low because I spend a lot of time now working and walking other
cities, going through homes, developments, the handy work of everything from private
individuals, to CDCs, historical groups, EDCs, etc. I would say our rents are off about 20%
and if you look at other "cool" Coventry/Tremont/Ohio City we are off about 40%. This
would be a business that has low self esteem and missing great opportunities to make hay
while the sunshine.

But again this is not simply a raise license fees get rich scheme. This is a complete mind
change here in Lakewood.

Lastly, I would argue that housing is only an industry if it produces something. When commonly referred to as the "housing industry," economists and talking heads are referring to new housing construction and gentrification projects. Under all other conditions an "industry" produces a good. Our "housing" industry in Lakewood produces nothing.

“Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!”
Leonardo da Vinci

Ryan,

The housing is the lynch pin in everything. Why did we build great schools, to invest in
kids and keep property values up. I am willing to bet should a real survey ever be done
1 in 4 homes have some form of business/art in it. They are also the engine that allows
Lakewood business to survive. While some fight for highway signs to direct visitors to
the hundreds of Lakewood cool spots. Others have a more realistic view, and just want
to be able to get around, and shop. Because of our size, we have the luxury of catering
first to residents, then to visitors. Another great reason to be here and start a business
in Lakewood. Lakewood is a historic bedroom community built in the dreams o Jane Jacobs
on the bank of limitless fresh water, next to 150mile park, in a livable climate.

When you got it, flaunt it, and get a far price.

stay safe,


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[Bill Call]

I am not looking at home owner associations. But I would work to a keep a majority of the
funding serving those that pay it out. I mean right now home owners and residents are
paying out to support Lakewood businesses with our tax dollars. Because we have been
told, wrongly, that it is more important than housing.

The eternal question: Who pays and who benefits?

I 'm not opposed to a higher fee on rentals to fund housing improvements. However, in a tight rental market those higher fees would lead to higher rents which would lead to higher vacancies which would lead to the undoing of all you would do with your higher fees.

Unless what you do increases the demand for housing in Lakewood.

Like most people I am sometimes drawn to the idea that government can "plan" a successful city. The planners usually destroy what makes a City special and desireable.

So instead of big changes how about little changes?

If you increase the fee from $75 to $250 why not a non refundable credit on your City of Lakewood income taxes? People who live out of town who have owned a double for 30 years that has never generated one cent in income taxes will have to pay more. Is that a bad thing?

I hear that the Spitzer dealership in Lakewood will be moving. That illustrates why preserving a City is so hard. When the feds closed those dealerships and gave $100 billion to the auto companies and the unions nothing was left for the communities that depended on those dealerships.

A housing fee won't undo federal and state policy that does so much damage to communities acrosss the country.

[Jim O'Bryan]

The eternal question: Who pays and who benefits?

I 'm not opposed to a higher fee on rentals to fund housing improvements. However, in a tight rental market those higher fees would lead to higher rents which would lead to higher vacancies which would lead to the undoing of all you would do with your higher fees.
.

I do not believe it.

If all they were doing is raising rate, then sure, but that is not all.

Like most people I am sometimes drawn to the idea that government can "plan" a successful city. The planners usually destroy what makes a City special and desireable.

Not planning a thing. Saving and preserving what is most valuable here.

So instead of big changes how about little changes?

If you increase the fee from $75 to $250 why not a non refundable credit on your City of Lakewood income taxes? People who live out of town who have owned a double for 30 years that has never generated one cent in income taxes will have to pay more. Is that a bad thing?

Because it is not enough and does not get us there. It manages decline, not futures.

A housing fee won't undo federal and state policy that does so much damage to communities acrosss the country.

Bill

It is at best an appointment for 9 months. I cannot cure America, but I can start to show
a new way for Lakewood to think, spend and save money, while keeping labor negotiations
in check which is what I thought you said was the problem.

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