A "Bill Call CBA" Response

[Sean Wheeler]

This thread has hit a new low. I thought I had seen it all when someone was suggesting that we have computers take over the grading load in our classrooms.

Will and Bill,

The myth of a "short" work day for Lakewood teachers is a ridiculous red herring. All teachers need to be at work before 8 and can't leave until after 3. Since I'm among the "less educated" teaching work force, I'll leave it to someone who is more used to numbers to do the math on how long my workday is according to when I show up and when I leave. I DO know that it sure as heck feels like a full workday when I leave.

Here's my schedule based on a 9-period day with 40 minute classes.

1st period - English 12
2nd period - Planning period: This is when I can run copies (btw - can't bring the copier home with me), check email, attend parent meetings, attend small group staff work sessions, meet with students that need extra help, and work with the online component of my class.
3rd period - English 9
4th period - English 9
5th period - Lunch
6th period - English 9
7th period - English 9
1:15-1:30 - Announcements (students in class.)
8th period - English 12
9th period - Departmental Period: Department meetings, grade-level team meetings, tutoring help for students, parent meetings, IEP meetings (special ed.), enter attendance, reset classroom for next day.

Of course, you'll notice that there isn't much room for grading. Especially as I teach writing courses that require me to read approximately 120 3-5 page essays on a regular basis. If I spend a minimum of 10 minutes on each essay.... again, I'll let the more educated do the math.

I teach a hybrid online class, which means that I also frequently interact with my students online to answer instant message questions and provide individualized and private student feedback to each student.

And then there's lesson planning, website development, and more grading. And since I live by the library, I occasionally meet students to provide further one-on-one help.

I am not the exception in my work load, this kind of work load predominates among my peers. I also feel uniquely qualified to discuss the stress of BOTH parenting and teaching.

All of that and I'm STILL not complaining about my pay (knew it when I went in), my workload (knew it when I went in), or the consistent devaluation of my worth to our community. I post here simply to dispel the red herring argument based on the absurd notion that I don't put in a full day of work.

Bill, your "questions" are loaded. I teach rhetoric, let's not forget. Nice job on slipping in the fallacious "double step raises". In case you thought no one appreciated your subtlety, I wanted you to know that I'm a fan.

Will, if you'd like to supervise me, I'd appreciate the extra hand, as mine are full. When and where would you like me to report. I have a laptop (purchased on my own dime) and can be wherever you are whenever I'm doing work outside of my eight hour workday. Should I bring my own time clock or will you be logging the hours? Sometimes I'm working through dinner, so on those days you're invited to join my family and I for a great meal. I'd be interested to see if the extra hours over the course of the nine month school year equal the allegedly free off-time that I get during the summer. Btw - I DON'T get paid in the summer.

For everyone else, please support the continuing hard work and dedication of those committed to teaching your children in a professional and responsible manner that brings the results indicated on our current state report card. As a parent and as a teacher, I strongly urge you to join me in voting yes on the levy.

[Gary Rice]

Will wrote:

"I suspect those who think teaching is a high stress job have led very sheltered lives, and have never been in combat, nor policed a dangerous neighborhood, nor faced a life threatening fire, nor had to get a rig to the coast in two days through a blizzard."

My simple refutation...

High Stress Job? You betcha. Multiply those parental concerns of yours by about 30, let simmer for 42 minutes, and hope that the students will get back on track after one of them notices a fly in the room...

Sheltered lives? Nope, not if you are a classroom teacher, you don't. When you're in the front of the room, nothing will shelter you.

Never been in combat? Sorry, if you are a classroom teacher, odds are, you probably have been in the middle of at least several deeply committed combat situations; in some cases, potentially life-threatening.

Policed a dangerous neighborhood? Don't you remember the school cafeteria?

Faced a life threatening fire? I taught middle school, remember? Gimme a break...We once had one of our special ed rooms burned out! (not a Lakewood situation)

Get a rig to the coast in a blizzard? Potentially. I remember a certain field trip to Canada... Bus Three was nick-named the "Vomit Comet", by the way.

I rest my case.

Now, in a general response to your question, Will, and not responding specifically to Lakewood's situation...

Generally, teachers who do not want to join a teachers' association are not required to do so.

They generally do pay what is termed a "fair share" to the association, to cover contract negotiations & expenses etc...but not certain other union activities.

The question of fair share was clarified years ago, by a Supreme Court ruling.

Back to passing the school levy...and that banjo...

[Kristine Pagsuyoin]

Here's my schedule based on a 9-period day with 40 minute classes.

1st period - English 12
2nd period - Planning period: This is when I can run copies (btw - can't bring the copier home with me), check email, attend parent meetings, attend small group staff work sessions, meet with students that need extra help, and work with the online component of my class.
3rd period - English 9
4th period - English 9
5th period - Lunch
6th period - English 9
7th period - English 9
1:15-1:30 - Announcements (students in class.)
8th period - English 12
9th period - Departmental Period: Department meetings, grade-level team meetings, tutoring help for students, parent meetings, IEP meetings (special ed.), enter attendance, reset classroom for next day.

Of course, you'll notice that there isn't much room for grading. Especially as I teach writing courses that require me to read approximately 120 3-5 page essays on a regular basis. If I spend a minimum of 10 minutes on each essay.... again, I'll let the more educated do the math.

I teach a hybrid online class, which means that I also frequently interact with my students online to answer instant message questions and provide individualized and private student feedback to each student.

And then there's lesson planning, website development, and more grading. And since I live by the library, I occasionally meet students to provide further one-on-one help.

Sean,

You forgot the thousands of dollars that teachers spend to keep their certificate up-to date and the money teachers spend out-of-pocket to keep up BCI reports, etc.

It was mentioned on this thread that teachers should be spending time keeping up on their field and I thought it was good to mention that teachers do have to do this and often only have time to take classes over the summer.

I wonder how many readers realize that to even get a job teachers have to submit all of their college transcripts, reference letters, test scores, previous job evaluations, answer multiple essay questions on an application, produce a portfolio, and sometimes pay for their own fingerprints. Just sending out a resume and producing a degree is not enough. Not many other professions have to prove their qualifications to the extend teachers do. It is very costly to get an education degree, get a license, and keep up to date. However, our society doesn't fault doctors, lawyers, engineers, and other highly paid professionals the ability to earn a high salary to recoup what they put into becoming an expert in their field.

Just wondering why the people who tend to spend more time with our kids than us during the week aren't given the same level of creditability or respect s our doctors?

Kristine

[Bill Call]

Bill, …
That would be my only complaint with your discussion. You're bending the reality of the situation in that one instance. Can we agree on that at the very least?
Ed

Bending but not breaking.

If a teacher spends 7 hours a day at school but explains that they spend a lot of time on “work” outside of work hours:

Is the system open to financial liability for non paid overtime?
Would we be better off if teachers worked 8 to 5 properly supervised and properly supported?

Bill, your "questions" are loaded. I teach rhetoric, let's not forget. Nice job on slipping in the fallacious "double step raises". In case you thought no one appreciated your subtlety, I wanted you to know that I'm a fan.

My questions are loaded.

On the other hand any discussion about the pay, benefits and hours of school board employees are usually answered with variations of “No one works as hard as teachers and anyway don’t you care about the children?”.

By the way, I have great admiration and respect for teachers and their profession. I am also well aware that for most of the day a teacher has to be "on". There is little down time. I realize that that kind of mental gymnastics is physically draining.

Just wondering why the people who tend to spend more time with our kids than us during the week aren't given the same level of creditability or respect s our doctors
Kristine

My main concern with the school board is that is dominated by people who think their job is to pad the payroll, pensions and benefit package of school board employees.

We need a school board that represents the interests of the students and the community. Sometimes those interests intersect the interest of the union and sometimes they don't.

If someone new runs for the school board I hope they will know the difference.

[Stan Austin]

It's a cold,cold day in Hell----------Iceland is kicking the world's butt, the Cavs might do it for Cleveland, andddddddddd---------- Bill Call maybe, just maybe is talking some sense!!!!!!!!!!

[Rhonda loje]

We need a school board that represents the interests of the students and the community. Sometimes those interests intersect the interest of the union and sometimes they don't.

If someone new runs for the school board I hope they will know the difference.

Bill Call

Now there is an idea I can agree with!!

[Kristine Pagsuyoin]

We need a school board that represents the interests of the students and the community. Sometimes those interests intersect the interest of the union and sometimes they don't.

Bill--now that I agree with.

[Gary Rice]

Yes Bill, I like that quote too.

Now can I bring out the banjo for a sing-a-long?