Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

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Kevin Butler
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Kevin Butler »

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Am I legally within my rights, as a tax payer, a resident and a supporter of LakewoodAlive to ask for correct accounting, and how funds are used from them?

I can't tell you (or Sharon) what your rights are vis-a-vis LakewoodAlive; not my bailiwick. As a councilman, I can help you get answers from the city. What do you mean by "the $71,000 er $31,000 for the DowntowN sign test"?
sharon kinsella
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by sharon kinsella »

Richard, Thanks I did go there and register, but it's still not the breakdown I'm looking for.

I want to know the nitty gritty. How much funding, from where for what.

What monies are paying salaries and peripherals i.e. Social Security payments, insurance etc.

I want the numerical breakdown for their projects.

Every non-profit I've ever worked for kept accounting records like businesses do. The difference being, non-profits don't have privacy protections. That's part of what is necessary for the 501c3 status. Without the 501c3 they wouldn't qualify for HUD monies.

Kevin - I'm pretty sure that when I looked at previous years CDBG monies, Lakewood Alive was a recipient. According to the RFP, organizations that recieved these monies were supposed to account for outcomes from previous years grants. All the other proposals had them, Lakewood Alive did not. Since they did not follow the directive of the RFP, why were they once again funded?

Shawn -

When people attack instead of answering simple questions, there is something wrong. Very, very wrong.
"When I dare to be powerful -- to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid." - Audre Lorde
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Kevin Butler wrote:
Jim O'Bryan wrote:Am I legally within my rights, as a tax payer, a resident and a supporter of LakewoodAlive to ask for correct accounting, and how funds are used from them?

I can't tell you (or Sharon) what your rights are vis-a-vis LakewoodAlive; not my bailiwick. As a councilman, I can help you get answers from the city. What do you mean by "the $71,000 er $31,000 for the DowntowN sign test"?



Kevin

I had heard the original bill submitted was $71,000 when that was refused another was
resubmitted at around $31,000 later. This seems very high for a VOLUNTEER COMMITTEE
of citizens, but then I could be wrong. Maybe that is what volunteers get paid at LA. Not
to mention how I would feel with any of my contractors sending in a bill for twice of the
real cost. This is what makes people ask questions, and wonder. But let's say it is only
$25,000. As a bill submitted to the city that is not CDBG money, right?

This week another non-profit asked me to donate signs that would be used in public parks.
I mentioned that the city has a really good sign shop, and did they ask. The answer
was they are way to busy to even consider this job for city parks. I then drove by the
many banners that I have heard costs the city $60.00 each to produce and wondered, who
is paying for those, and is that why our city services cannot make signs for the parks?

This is what I am getting at, who makes sure any of this is accounted for? When you throw
in the number of fellow council people that are long time members, helped to start LA,
and came from their ranks to committees that approve the funding and the spending, to
me an outsider it seems like a nightmare of conflict of interests.

While I am not even suggesting, that it is true, can you see how it looks to a tax payer?

I work with 7 CDCs, none of them have council people or school board members on their
board and why I asked why, they have all said, "it would just look wrong to tax payers."
But they also mentioned they are highly regulated and held accountable by the council
people in their wards.

It is not Sharon and I, it is a growing group of people wondering who is running what,
and at what price? Yes I am still upset that Jay Foran and Mary Anne Crampton had
enough time to insult Sharon but never enough time to answer 1 simple question.

Thanks again, you have spent enough time on this one.


peace

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Scott Meeson
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Scott Meeson »

sharon kinsella wrote:Richard, Thanks I did go there and register, but it's still not the breakdown I'm looking for.

I want to know the nitty gritty. How much funding, from where for what.

What monies are paying salaries and peripherals i.e. Social Security payments, insurance etc.

I want the numerical breakdown for their projects.

Every non-profit I've ever worked for kept accounting records like businesses do. The difference being, non-profits don't have privacy protections. That's part of what is necessary for the 501c3 status. Without the 501c3 they wouldn't qualify for HUD monies.

Kevin - I'm pretty sure that when I looked at previous years CDBG monies, Lakewood Alive was a recipient. According to the RFP, organizations that recieved these monies were supposed to account for outcomes from previous years grants. All the other proposals had them, Lakewood Alive did not. Since they did not follow the directive of the RFP, why were they once again funded?

Shawn -

When people attack instead of answering simple questions, there is something wrong. Very, very wrong.


Hello Sharon,

I am hoping you can make me understand all this. Has or Hasn't Lakewood Alive provided to you the information they are required to provide under Internal Revenue Service's Exempt Organization Public Disclosure Requirements? If they have, what other government entities are dictating that they provide/supplement information beyond what the Internal Revenue Service requires?

http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=135008,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=96430,00.html


I look forward to the education.

Respectfully,


Scott Meeson
If you would understand anything, observe its beginning and its development.
- Aristotle
sharon kinsella
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by sharon kinsella »

No Scott they have not. They just insulted me and accused me of being shrill.

Thanks for asking in a respectful manner.
"When I dare to be powerful -- to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid." - Audre Lorde
Shawn Juris
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Shawn Juris »

So help me to understand this, because some request was not fulfilled to Sharon's satisfaction, that justifies a year of insults, misrepresentations, and general bullying of an organization and therby all of its supporters? I'm sorry Jim but you can't play both sides on this. You can't lead the lynching then claim innocence because you bought the casket. Remember the only way that LO can have money to support anything is from advertising dollars (and how many of those are behind Lakewood Alive)?
Missy Limkemann
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Missy Limkemann »

I did not take the survey ...
Time is precious, waste is wisely
Scott Meeson
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Scott Meeson »

Sharon,

Thanks for the reply. Besides what the I.R.S. requires them to do, in regards to public disclosure requirements, I don't believe they have to provide any other documents/information to you or me regarding the "nitty gritty" of their business operations.

I went to the Guidestar site and found the latest tax return. Said tax return was scanned into Guidestar's data base on 9/01/2009. The latest tax return contains 20 pages of information; I just don't see where they are required to provide the public with any more information beyond what the I.R.S. has stated is necessary.

Again, I am hoping you can educate me. What legal authority is dictating the disclosure of the " nitty gritty" - beyond the I.R.S.?

Respectfully,


Scott Meeson
If you would understand anything, observe its beginning and its development.
- Aristotle
sharon kinsella
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by sharon kinsella »

Scott - thanks for asking. To tell you the truth, I don't feel like rehashing everything. You can find out about requirements on the State website or by calling the state tax dept.

Go back through last year's posts to find out everything.

Shawn - It wasn't just because they didn't answer. Don't minimalize something you know nothing about. Go back through last year's post and see how they behaved.

From your tone it seems to me, that they are your peers - welcome to them.
"When I dare to be powerful -- to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid." - Audre Lorde
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Shawn Juris wrote:So help me to understand this, because some request was not fulfilled to Sharon's satisfaction, that justifies a year of insults, misrepresentations, and general bullying of an organization and therby all of its supporters?


Shawn

Where to start on your misrepresentation, bullying and insults.

Jay and Mary Anne attacking and bullying a 60 year old woman with cancer.
Do you really think, that my comments, and my position on the management of Lakewood
Alive and their financial and civic accountability is solely based on this? Really? I only
mention Sharon's heroic fight with cancer as Mary Anne brought that up as a reason to
farm out a job that could have been handled in Lakewood.

I am extremely disappointed that Jay and Mary Anne never felt the need to apologize to
Sharon. That they have felt it easier to tell everyone not to read the deck or ever post,
so that their flight from accountability does not look odd, or that it has some basis in fact.
I have heard all sorts of reasons for my extreme disappointment with LakewoodAlive and
their management, but you are the first to go this low. Though other reasons seem even
stranger! For the record, barely knew Jay in high school, we did not hang around. I mostly
remember him as the guy that always finished last in School council voting behind Mike
Summers and Steve Petras, again not really my crowd. Rarely saw them in the smoking
pit, or van in the parking lot where I spent too much of my time. So take that one off the
list of reasons too.

Let me assure you, their is no more single person in this city who can defend themselves
better from petty thoughts and deep hurting personal attacks than Sharon. She regularly
calls to kick my ass, on the phone, stops by in person, or here on the Deck.

When did accountability or asking if anyone actually judges a group's success be called
some sort of insult or bullying? How is asking for accountability attacking or belittling the
work of the wonderful volunteers? How would that even work? Is this some sort of
"family" or religious movement? Why is the topic always changed when accountability
rears its (I guess) ugly head?

Is that really it Shawn? So when I or Sharon or Rhonda, or Ken or anyone asks
LakewoodAlive to be accountable, or for others to dare to wonder aloud if we need a single
monopoly for everything in Lakewood, we are attacking the good hearted volunteer
members?

While I am sure it is painful sometimes for members to read my "LakewoodAlive..." how
else does one ask if the "group's" real plain is to delivery us to the regional machine of
mediocrity and incompetence? If they have a plan? What happened to the money? The
promises? The accountability to the citizens of Lakewood?

Shawn, you are really losing me on this one. You who demands facts, and questions
answered by me, seem to not ask the same from them?

For some reason you think it is not odd that a 501C3 one never told Sharon how much
a single public event raised, and gave to the charity it was going to, but has also never
bothered to tell the head organizer of that event. I could even talk about possible litigation
from them to that person and other non-profits groups over this, but I am sure you will
not find it odd that they fight so hard to cover it up.

Shawn as proven here, in this post. You demand accountability from all, but the team you
are on and play for. But then I guess you knew that all along. Remember when you would
attack me, Ken Warren, Steve Davis, Dan Slife and others because we dared to try and
help Lakewood define "our brand" so that we could find like minded people to move here
and work here. You accused us of working behind the scenes, and running the city on our
own. Which was never true. But now you rejoice that "your team" has defined "Lakewood
Brand" and now demand we must now walk lock step like mindless sheep to the promised
land of Economic Development over Education. Minimum wage jobs over front porches,
mass numbers of people from other cities, over balanced budgets and a safe, secure and
clean city.

Shawn go over and look in the mirror, and ask yourself my friend, what would you post
be here if AGS Software Development, Inc. awarded Jim O'Bryan, publisher of the year?

Ask yourself, what would you post, if I stepped in to help Pillars, and a year later you
found yourself on the street and Pillars branded a LO Project?

Ask yourself, what would you post, if we took in millions and handed out a flyer 4 times a
year?

Ask yourself, what would you post if I had the schools print the paper and had the children
carry it home, while making sure Pillars did not have the same opportunity?

Ask your self what would you post if I had promised that the Lakewood Observer would
never act on any of our findings and then the second we saw a paycheck reverse those
comments?

Ask yourself what you would post if had promised an event and it was done half assed, and
two people showed up and reported thousands were there?

Ask yourself, what would you post if you had joined the Lakewood Observer as we had
promised to NEVER act on what were were teaching, and then overnight we became a
PAC, then a year later we seized the opportunity to TAKE OVER another group that now
gave the LO power and public funding to carry out our plans that drastically change OUR CITY?

Ask yourself what would you post if the Lakewood Observer tried to own, take over or
control everything going on in Lakewood?

Ask yourself what would you post if I worked behind the scenes to undermine the hard
work of hundreds of volunteers simple to win some perverse "game."

Seriously, the sad fact is I could go one for days, but the answers we already have. You
would attack the LO, and praise anyone else that you were part of. As you are already
on record for years of doing just that.

With that point made, I want to commend you for bringing it out and asking it aloud.
Thank you for making me accountable for my words and actions. Thank you for weighing
into the public mosh pit of word jazz, and asking, in a forum where I at least have a
chance of setting the record straight, or defending my comments. I appreciate the chance
to examine myself and where this is headed. As I guess you consider yourself a member of
the Lakewood Observer, and I hope you do, I look forward to you asking nearly the same
from the management of LakewoodAlive with their comments towards me, and the LO.
Because I know after this little talk, you will demand openness and accountability from all
especially your team of "players."

Shawn as always, thank you for your time, your comments, and your thought provoking
questions. Though I know we have major disagreements in what Lakewood needs, and
where we need to head, I am sure you will agree with me that I am not always right, and
that maybe sometimes you are not always right, and for a city to really grow and serve
all, it is through public discussion and discourse, and the accountability and ownership of
words, ideas and actions that a true course can be charted to benefit all.

In the end I hope we all want was is best for the entire city, we want all voices heard, and
all groups using our money or trying desperately to change Lakewood to be accountable to
all of the people of Lakewood, not just a small handful of self ordained "gifted people."

FWIW

Scott

Went over all of that stuff, and besides some numbers that do not seem to add up and I
am sure could be called interesting but legal bookkeeping.

Did not see where Sharon or any resident of Lakewood could not ask for more details on
what they do with the money they raise from the public.

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Scott Meeson
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Scott Meeson »

Sharon and Jim thanks for your replies.

I was able to find the following information regarding Ohio:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/149.431

Let me know what you think.

Scott Meeson


***Looks to be another great day for soaking up the sun and getting some fresh air.
If you would understand anything, observe its beginning and its development.
- Aristotle
Shawn Juris
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Shawn Juris »

So the LO mission has been cancelled or postponed?
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Scott Meeson wrote:Sharon and Jim thanks for your replies.

I was able to find the following information regarding Ohio:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/149.431

Let me know what you think.

Scott Meeson


***Looks to be another great day for soaking up the sun and getting some fresh air.



Scott

It does look like a great day again in Lakewood. Just got back from biking for an hour.


Shawn

So we moved the bar yet again and avoid the questions to you.

No the mission statement has not been canceled.

Perhaps some of us fall short in your perception, but as we are witnessing I am more
than willing to explain myself and answer your questions.

I am not really sure where or how this fits, but know you will explain it to me.

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Bill Call
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Bill Call »

sharon kinsella wrote:Shawn - It wasn't just because they didn't answer. Don't minimalize something you know nothing about. Go back through last year's post and see how they behaved.

From your tone it seems to me, that they are your peers - welcome to them.


Just wild speculation but..

I think they might be a little bashfull about salaries and benefits paid.

Sometimes oganizations morph into little sinecures. The organization doesn't accomplish a lot on its own it mostly takes credit for what would have been built even if it didn't exist.

Like the Plain Dealer giving the Euclid Corridor project for each new building at Cleveland State or The Cleveland Clinic. Who gets credit for all the abandoned downtown office buildings and closed business?
Shawn Juris
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Re: Have You Taken the LakewoodAlive Survey?

Post by Shawn Juris »

what was I supposed to answer?
I answered the original thread, and commented on how my experience with the organization was positive, Councilman Butler seemed to answer most of the concerns. Were there others that needed to be addressed? I'm still hesitant to engage too much, given that I know that perception is outweighing reality, and that being the case a real discussion is futile.
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