ANNOUNCEMENT: New Logo for Downtown Lakewood

[Jim O'Bryan]

As this has become the official LakewoodAlive's Mainstreet DowntowN Area (LAMDA) "way
finding," branding, thread, I thought I would add some more "way finding" for our discussion.

At the CSU Quadangle on the Euclid Coridor.




Cleveland Heights "wayfinding" in one of the hippest most stable areas in
Cleveland for the past 50+ years, Coventry.






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[Jim O'Bryan]

please see thread...

http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8758&p=67049#p67049


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[Jim O'Bryan]

out for bidding.

Later today I will post what these sign will look like on the actual streets.




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[Dustin James]

Still trying to figure out the little L in a diamond shape? It seems to be an ornament that's sole purpose is to remind the viewer that they have not transported into another ring suburb accidentally - but rather they can rest assured they are still in fact, in Lakewood. The grid of streets downtown can get so confusing. One could pop over to Downtown Rocky River before knowing what hit them.

Of course they have little RRs in their signs for the same reasons (or will)

The only problem with ornaments on signs is when the same diamond shape is mixed in with directional arrows on the other signs. So does the viewer see the L as meaning Left? Or is it really an arrow?

Upon thinking about it, that doesn't make sense. However Way finding and good clear signage does not require thinking!

It would be interesting to read the usability studies that were done to check on relative contrast of colors, legibility and find-ability. Particularly the second from the left using black on dark burgundy. These documents are probably available for viewing at city hall. This kind of research helps to determine before costly production of metal signage, whether the design actually works effectively to help people find their way.

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[Charlie Page]

Waiting to see how this is going to be funded considering these difficult economic times. I can't envision cutting services any further to pay for them (I wouldn't want that either, fwiw).

Or is this one of those nice ideas that go along with the Detroit ave streetscape plan and unless someone comes up with 20 million, the whole thing is going to sit on a shelf for us to look at?

Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I'd like to see this happen but I'm struggling with how it' going to be funded.

Maybe we can get lucky with Stimulus Part Duex?

What brings people into Lakewood? It doesn't seem like many retail stores stick around for too long (like clothing stores for example). Is it a case that if you build the infrastructure, they will come? Which comes first, the steak or the sizzle?

Still trying to figure out the little L in a diamond shape?

According to the full plan, it's a logo.

http://www.onelakewood.com/blog/Downtow ... 20Plan.pdf

[David Anderson]

It's still good to know that this project is supporting businesses in Shaker Hts.

[Jim O'Bryan]

It would be interesting to read the usability studies that were done to check on relative contrast of colors, legibility and find-ability. Particularly the second from the left using black on dark burgundy. These documents are probably available for viewing at city hall. This kind of research helps to determine before costly production of metal signage, whether the design actually works effectively to help people find their way.

Dustin

As one of the great logo designers in America, I am sure you realize that would mean "LEFT" and all the
"RIGHT" turns would have R on them. After all they are way finding signs. Everything on them should help not confuse the person needing the wayfinding.

Which brings us to Charlie Page's comments. Many times these are from grants, sent out directly for this
sort of hub bub. If it is, and it is out there then why not have a crack at it. If however this money can be
used for anything other than this, like lets say stimulus money. I would ask, who does this serve? As
Dustin and many others have pointed out numerous times the city is damn easy to get around in.
If it is for those coming in from out of the city, more and more have GPS in their cars, phones, and yes
even in their GPSs!

What I would ask, is will it clutter and already cluttered city? Will it just provide more places for the out
of control taggers to use? What is really the goal, how much and for who?

While I could ask if this is the most important use of time and money, I would instead ask, "What
happened to the original design that we were told was design by a committee of Lakewoodites, and
that we all voted for after the fabulous color tests?"

David Anderson

When lead by regionalists, you best get used to thinking regionally. Hiring firms as far away as Youngstown
will be good for the region. Get with it man.


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[Vince Frantz]

Lakewood is a usability clusterf*ck as is the entire inner-ring of Cleveland. In nearly every civic branding conversation I have been privy to the issue of wayfinding comes up as the biggest issue.

This is not a logo project - this is wayfinding. Logos don't bring people in. Logos don't brand a city. People connecting with Place does. And if you cant find the place the place is screwed.

I dont know why this project gets so much flak. StudioGraphique is awesome at what they do and I fully support them doing it. Does someone have a beef with the way they work or the process they used to come up with these? Did they skip some steps? Seems like the signs don't look good to people on this board.

We need the signs. These are for people that may come here only one time a year but we welcome visitors and we should show it. This is not Bay Village.

[stephen davis]

We need the signs. These are for people that may come here only one time a year but we welcome visitors and we should show it. This is not Bay Village.

Vince,

Will these signs help you find Sweet Designs, Players, The Winchester, Pier W, or Nature's Bin?

Steve

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[Vince Frantz]

Steve

I was hoping they would help you find Lakewood period.

Sounds crazy - but as I have mentioned before - I send newcomers through RR to get to Lakewood because the entrance across Cliftion or Detroit is much more welcoming than any of the I-90 exits. I am sure they will put signs where we dont need them. But at least we have a sign system and someone is working on it.

We need to align the wayfinding from I-90 to the active areas of the city. No clue there is even a Lake nearby. No clue there is even a strip of places (locally owned places) just off I-90.

Try to explain how to get to Melt from Winterhurst for example.

[stephen davis]

Vince,

I only asked because there are lots of destinations in Lakewood. I may be wrong, but I think the proposed signage is aimed toward a specific 8/10's of a mile long section of Detroit Avenue.


Steve

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[Vince Frantz]

Steve - i missed your point then. I know that all the examples shown in the doc are for downtown but does this mean there will be no wayfinding for the rest of the city ever?

It would be worthless not to keep extending this to the other areas. I know that the 'downtown' is arbitrary but something that can be replicated and extended to all areas would be necessary. New signs in Birdtown would refer to 'downtown' or 'madison village' or whatever you call each section.

Does someone know if there would be any focus on any other area at a later date? Or is there some insider knowledge that refutes this?

Is there a document showing where all the signage would located to start?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Lakewood is a usability clusterf*ck as is the entire inner-ring of Cleveland. In nearly every civic branding conversation I have been privy to the issue of wayfinding comes up as the biggest issue.

This is not a logo project - this is wayfinding. Logos don't bring people in. Logos don't brand a city. People connecting with Place does. And if you cant find the place the place is screwed.

I dont know why this project gets so much flak. StudioGraphique is awesome at what they do and I fully support them doing it. Does someone have a beef with the way they work or the process they used to come up with these? Did they skip some steps? Seems like the signs don't look good to people on this board.

We need the signs. These are for people that may come here only one time a year but we welcome visitors and we should show it. This is not Bay Village.

Vince

I find your entire post very confusing.

First, are you saying everyone of this board has a beef, or do some of the very concerned and very real
taxpayers ask, who is this being paid for? What was the process? And what happened to the process
we were told was so very important to this process and the design that group of citizens came up with?

I would imagine that every civic branding project that you have run into talks of wayfinding. It is the
fondue of the 2000s. I remember in party planning in the 60s Jarts, Twister, and Fondue came up in
all of those discussions too. But today only Twister continues on.

Again, I ask, and second Steve's questions. Do we even know what this is for? What areas it combines
or serves. None of these signs are for I-90. Is that more important that getting people from the Hospital
to the Melt? If that is what is important and it is a branding exercise, than why would we use the same
colors as Rocky River? Would that not add to the confusion of your friends coming in from the west?

What I find even more amazing is that the person that sends me a virtual video of getting to your office
with Goggle maps views of the intersection and buildings nearby sees this Million dollar plus exercise
as more important than even finishing many of the other things that have been started, and dropped.

Then in the end, is the reasoning. If Lakewood's future is the same as Crocker Park, Legacy Village,
and Belden Village, nothing more than another mall destination, then maybe this is important. But if
Lakewood's future is to be the best place to live and raise a family, then this is a complete waste. So
once again, I beg civic leaders to tell us what their plans are for Lakewood? Malls or Schools? Retail
or Office? Green space or greenbacks? If the regional dream is true, make the signs for the county
prison, and the county land fills. But if we decide to respect the people that live here, and we do not
believe the often heard line, "We do not want anymore of them here" then let's get on with making this
the safest, cleanest city to live in. Because if you look at the reports, they are never the same place.

NEVER

PS - Why call attention to the lake when there is only one place you can actually access it,
and that area, long overdue for eminent domain for a public park, is now private?


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[stephen davis]

Steve - i missed your point then. I know that all the examples shown in the doc are for downtown but does this mean there will be no wayfinding for the rest of the city ever?

Vince,

It looks like the second sign from the left in the RFP would be used in other than "DowntowN".

It would be worthless not to keep extending this to the other areas. I know that the 'downtown' is arbitrary but something that can be replicated and extended to all areas would be necessary. New signs in Birdtown would refer to 'downtown' or 'madison village' or whatever you call each section.

I think "DowntowN" is on Detroit Avenue from Bunts to Arthur.

Does someone know if there would be any focus on any other area at a later date? Or is there some insider knowledge that refutes this?

Is there a document showing where all the signage would located to start?

I don't know. Please share what you find out.


Steve

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[Jim O'Bryan]

As many have asked and even Dustin tried to stop the panic and show us what impact this might have on
Lakewood, and I do feel a little foolish.

It is amazing the impact these signs could have in the DowntowN area.




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So no matter the cost where can we put these needed way finding signage.



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