LEVY EFFORT EARNS CITY LEADERS' ENDORSEMENTS

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Bob Mehosky
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:20 am

Re: LEVY EFFORT EARNS CITY LEADERS' ENDORSEMENTS

Post by Bob Mehosky »

Roy Pitchford wrote:I had this incredibly unusual and possibly radical idea.

Lower taxes.

I know, you're thinking I must be stark raving mad to even suggest such a thing. Well, you'd probably be right, I just know how to fool the doctors.

Go with me on this for a second...

How many houses are for sale in Lakewood? Tons! I see them everywhere I go. If the property tax rate was reduced, it may spur some growth. More people in Lakewood, more people to collect taxes from.


The only problem with that theory is that the owners of the houses that are for sale are still paying taxes (usually).
Roy Pitchford
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Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:38 pm

Re: LEVY EFFORT EARNS CITY LEADERS' ENDORSEMENTS

Post by Roy Pitchford »

Danielle Masters wrote:Roy while the tax rates may be higher our property values are lower therefore many home owners pay lower taxes in Lakewood than they would for a house in other cities. This once again is a the grass is always greener somewhere else and that is often just not the case.

If Lakewood property values are lower then the surrounding suburbs and thus our taxes are lower, why do we have so many places for sale? People are moving out of Lakewood (or not moving in to Lakewood) for some reason.
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stephen davis
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: lakewood, ohio

Re: LEVY EFFORT EARNS CITY LEADERS' ENDORSEMENTS

Post by stephen davis »

Roy Pitchford wrote:
Danielle Masters wrote:Roy while the tax rates may be higher our property values are lower therefore many home owners pay lower taxes in Lakewood than they would for a house in other cities. This once again is a the grass is always greener somewhere else and that is often just not the case.

If Lakewood property values are lower then the surrounding suburbs and thus our taxes are lower, why do we have so many places for sale? People are moving out of Lakewood (or not moving in to Lakewood) for some reason.


Okay, why?

Please be factual.

.
Nothin' shakin' on Shakedown Street.
Used to be the heart of town.
Don't tell me this town ain't got no heart.
You just gotta poke around.

Robert Hunter/Sometimes attributed to Ezra Pound.
Will Brown
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:56 am
Location: Lakewood

Re: LEVY EFFORT EARNS CITY LEADERS' ENDORSEMENTS

Post by Will Brown »

I'm not convinced that a parent whose kids have only been in the Lakewood Schools is in a position where they can honestly say that the Lakewood Schools are better than other schools. That would be like a person who has owned only Chevrolets saying that they are better than Fords, or someone who has eaten only gruel saying that gruel is good.

On the other hand, it is hard to get impartial evidence as to how good the Lakewood Schools are as all the information we get is from the educational cabal, which has a vested interest in saying that they are doing their jobs well. The No Child Left Behind Act was supposed to help provide this information, but it allowed the teachers to make up the tests upon which evaluation of the students was made; it is hardly surprising that this led to many instances of tests being dumbed down, so student performance would appear to have improved.

I graduated from LHS and thought it was pretty much like other high schools until I got to college and realized how much better educated I was than were most of my peers from other schools. Of course it helped when a relative graduated from Bay and went to college, and had to take remedial math. So even though many years have passed, I still consider the Lakewood Schools as a quite good system.

My complaint is not that the Lakewood Schools are not doing a good job; my complaint is that they are so inefficient and reluctant to make changes to do the job better, or to do more with the same resources. That is why I think failure of the levy could be a good thing, as it would force all parties to find efficiencies, unless the union took a damn the children give us our money stand. I am not for permanent salary reductions; only for temporary reductions until we have all pulled through this crisis.

Of course, when teachers compare their wages to accountants, for example, I would ask them to show me an accountant who works only eight months a year, and a very short work-day, and who has the job security that public employees enjoy. So my suggestions would include year round schooling, reduction of much class instruction (replaced with IT work for the students) and concentration on the discussion and counseling aspects of the teaching process. These are radical ideas to many teachers, who lack the incentive and authority to adopt them. But financial pressures that would follow defeat of the levy could very well compel some creative thinking that would improve the performance of the schools.

Incidentally, there is nothing in the US Constitution that requires free education (although some justices might find it right next to the right to an abortion). The Ohio Constitution, however, does require it, so we provide it.
Society in every state is a blessing, but the Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil...
Bob Mehosky
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:20 am

Re: LEVY EFFORT EARNS CITY LEADERS' ENDORSEMENTS

Post by Bob Mehosky »

stephen davis wrote:
Roy Pitchford wrote:
Danielle Masters wrote:Roy while the tax rates may be higher our property values are lower therefore many home owners pay lower taxes in Lakewood than they would for a house in other cities. This once again is a the grass is always greener somewhere else and that is often just not the case.

If Lakewood property values are lower then the surrounding suburbs and thus our taxes are lower, why do we have so many places for sale? People are moving out of Lakewood (or not moving in to Lakewood) for some reason.


Okay, why?

Please be factual.

.


We don't.

According to Realtor.com, Lakewood has 364 properties for sale.

Rocky River has 235
Westlake has 315

Westlake and River combined have about the same population as Lakewood. Granted, Lakewood probably has more rental units, but saying there's a flight out of Lakewood is a little myopic.
Danielle Masters
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Lakewood, OH

Re: LEVY EFFORT EARNS CITY LEADERS' ENDORSEMENTS

Post by Danielle Masters »

I can't speak for others but we bought our first home 4 months ago. Obviously we bought here in Lakewood but to be fair we didn't consider buying anywhere else. We've left Lakewood twice for "greener" pastures but came back. Our main reason for choosing Lakewood was the schools. Not sure what else I can add to this.
Gary Rice
Posts: 1651
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:59 pm
Location: Lakewood

Re: LEVY EFFORT EARNS CITY LEADERS' ENDORSEMENTS

Post by Gary Rice »

Well, I can always think of a few things to add here. :)

Firstly, I always enjoy a "schools discussion", particularly so, about Lakewood, because there is so much going on that is not only excellent, but indeed, extraordinary.

Thinking about the "LAKEWOOD PROJECT" concert recently....That high school event ALONE presented a musical diorama of sound, at a talent level simply breathtaking to behold.

When I think about the tremendous effort put forth in the schools every single day to foster high expectations, it continues to inspire me. Our students (as test scores have shown, and performances on the stage and on the field have demonstrated) continue to rise to the challenge, each and every single day. (and I can bear personal witness to this fact)

For those who might not know, I, along with Dad, regularly volunteer in the buildings. Even though we're both retired teachers, we do this because of the great inspiration that we receive from the work of the dedicated staff (administrative, certified, and classified) in our schools.

I do want to answer a couple of Will's points factually, and in a constructive way here, as he certainly seems to be interested in the schools, and active interest is always better than apathy.

Firstly: Teachers are paid a daily rate, and only for days worked. They are not paid for the summers, or for days off. Were you to go to a so-called year-round school model, with, say, a 20% increase in school days, you'd either need to pay teachers 20% more, or try to negotiate an unlikely reduction in their salaries. As teachers nowadays have to take quite a few courses to renew their licenses. (and many of these are offered over the summer) that would also present a problem. In reality, many if not most teachers, must spend many summer days in the classrooms taking those classes.

There actually are districts considering a year-round school model WITHOUT adding school days, as there has been research that less educational regression occurs when this model happens, but there are many problems (a few above just noted) that would need to be addressed before that sort of thing could be implimented here.

Secondly: As to the standardized testing accountability movement: Neither teachers, nor administrators in a given district have any control whatsoever over test questions on standardized tests, and in fact, it would be a felony if a teacher were to interfere in any way with the administration of those tests. The standards are meant to be objective, and to those standards, Lakewood Schools did achieve an "excellent" rating. (Go Rangers!)

Now, having written that, I will agree that I have HEARD that some other states have been trying to get the Feds to ease up on the type of tests given, but to the very best of my knowledge, that's NOT been the case in Ohio's schools.

Yes, as well, I believe that Will is right when he indicated that the right to a free public education is not expressly stated in the US Constitution, but with Ohio, it has been a different story.

In fact, when Ohio was established, a tract of land in each township was to be set aside for a public school. From the outset, Ohio has valued public education highly. William McGuffey developed his reading program at Miami University (Ohio) in the 1830's, and Ohio has long historically produced an outstanding and educated group of leaders for our nation. Ironically, it's only been fairly recently in Ohio history that the school funding crisis became such an issue. Believe it or not, at one time, public education was considered to be so important in this state (and in our nation) as to be considered a matter of our fundamental national security.

Back to the banjo...gotta get that levy passed!
Bill Call
Posts: 3319
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:10 pm

Re: LEVY EFFORT EARNS CITY LEADERS' ENDORSEMENTS

Post by Bill Call »

There was some comment about the affect that a lower property valuation would have on property taxes collected for schools. See this:

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2010 ... till-rise/

State law reads that if the value of a property declines the amount of taxes collected on the property for schools must remain the same. The recent decline in property values will have no affect on the amount collected. I don't know if that applies to a house that is sold for less than the taxable value.

If the owner of a $150,000 property paid $3,000 (2%) per year in property taxes that went to the school that owner would still owe $3,000 if the property's value decline to $100,000 (3% rate).
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