MHS To Relocate Homeless From Cleveland To Lakewood

[Gary Rice]

In college economics class they talked about the "guns vs. butter" dilemma, in reference to a society establishing social priorities for their scarce resources.

There is always a need for efficient stewardship of scarce resources. The trouble is always that "efficient stewardship" to some can be "mismanagement" to others.

While yes, I have advocated for senior services and back yard trash pick-up, others have their own priorities as well in this dwindling pie of local finances.

With property tax and population reductions, the local pie will probably dwindle even further.

I don't want to get started on the "getting people to bicker among themselves so that they don't see the sleight-of-hand-going-on-behind-their-backs" discussion.

That's been a conspiracy discussion in politics for as long as I can remember. It remains a logical, but generally unprovable supposition.

The reality is that civic financial priorities continually need to be established and reestablished. True, some civic dreams can seem like pie-in-the-sky ideas, but consider this....Our library, no matter how beautiful, would not produce the revenue, or for that matter, in all likelihood, the traffic, of a revitalized business district.

More revenue streams must be established if the city is to move forward. That will involve creative thinking and we all will certainly not agree on the best way to arrive at our goals.

Back to the banjo....

[Charlie Page]

More like “Lakewood, we want law abiding people who take care of their property, are responsible, respect others and add to the community in a productive way”. I’ll leave you to figure out what productive means but it has to do with other things than just paying taxes.

First off wow. I am glad I am not your neighbor. I can't imagine how you would judge me being that I am mentally ill and all. I get the feeling you'd like to run me out of the city because I am mentally ill and I just might cause some problems.

Not sure how you interpret wanting “law abiding people who take care of their property, are responsible, respect others and add to the community in a productive way” to mean running you out of the city.

Please re-read what I said earlier

I have no problem with mentally ill, people with other disabilities or other life situations living in Lakewood.

Charlie one last question for you. Do you consider the takers just the mental ill or are the disabled or children or elderly also on your list of people you aren't willing to give to just because times are tough?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are okay with taking care of children and the elderly, the others you'd probably rather not even have to look at.

I didn't say I wasn't willing to give. I'm just not willing to support a tax increase to give more right now. Like I said earlier...just not now.

Your “limb” just broke off.

More like “Lakewood, we want law abiding people who take care of their property, are responsible, respect others and add to the community in a productive way”. I’ll leave you to figure out what productive means but it has to do with other things than just paying taxes.

I'm starting to get confused as to who the sane ones in this debate are. The one's who have battled mental illnesses and continue to win battles day after day, or the delusional guy who wants every citizen in Lakewood to be a perfect human, because he thinks his taxes are worth more than human life.

Charlie, do they have to have blonde hair and blue eyes too?

Are you a tad bit out of touch with reality, or are you completely deranged?

With the "blonde hair and blue eyes" comment you just equated me with Hitler, the most evil satanic creature in modern times if not all eternity.

Tell me again who’s out of touch or deranged?

I guess wanting people to be law abiding, have respect for others (including on this Deck) and do some small thing to make the City better is asking too much.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Charlie,

That's what your post sounded like to some people. When it's just words on a page, it looks like you're listing all the qualifications to be a resident of Lakewood, and anyone who doesn't meet your bar doesn't deserve to be in this city. And when we're talking about mentally ill people moving into Lakewood, and you stating that being a "productive" citizen has to do with other things than just paying taxes, it sounds like you're suggesting that everyone has to be a healthy human being, and if you have any kind of flaws, you are no good to this city.

"I’ll leave you to figure out what productive means but it has to do with other things than just paying taxes."

That's a vague statement and it allows more room for interpretations and misunderstanding, which is where we are at now.

People with mental illnesses are not always people who steal, break laws and run rampant around the city they live in. They are not modern day lepers who need to be tucked away underground. They are people who have different challenges and battles in life than those who are healthy, but that shouldn't disqualify them from a chance at a normal life. This program is aiming to provide the mentally ill with housing, which is something stable in their not so stable world. It's a way for them to learn to become the law abiding, productive citizens that we all want as neighbors, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

I'll add that by allowing the mentally ill from this program to find some kind of solidarity and refuge in this city would be more beneficial to the city and it's image than not allowing them in.

Why is that?

Because if we let them in, we will show the rest of the region that here is Lakewood, Ohio, a city where all are welcome, all get a chance, and all can contribute and call this wonderful place home. If we stand in the way and say "No, you're not worthy or welcome", we become the complete opposite of what this city and this country was built on and has stood for.

[Charlie Page]

That's a vague statement and it allows more room for interpretations and misunderstanding, which is where we are at now.

I intended it to be vaugue to open peoples minds of what they can do to make the city better. Instead minds were closed.

Something, anything to add value to Lakewood. Even if you don't add value...don't subtract from it through your everyday actions (i.e. littering, foul language, being disrespectful, putting your trash out 4 days early, etc).

People with mental illnesses are not always people who steal, break laws and run rampant around the city they live in. They are not modern day lepers who need to be tucked away underground. They are people who have different challenges and battles in life than those who are healthy, but that shouldn't disqualify them from a chance at a normal life.

I said I can't support increased taxes right now and that equates to disqualifying them from a normal life?

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Charlie,

No one mentioned anything about raising taxes until your first post. The article didn't mention it either.

This is a non-profit organization that runs this program, they just relocated it's patients. They did not fork over the entire program to the city of Lakewood and say "Here, this program is your child now, pay for it."

[Bill Call]

Bill, would you mind providing us with the list of questions that were asked? It would help me at least to understand your concerns.

OK

How many clients have been moved to Oak Tree Manor (Bonnieview)?
How many clients do you plan on moving to Bonnieview?
How will your clients housed in Tremont be moved to Lakewood?
Who will pay for that transportation?
If your client chooses not to relocate to Lakewood will other housing be available?
How will future tenants be moved to Bonnieview?
How much rent is Mental Health Services paying for each of the apartments?
How much was MHS paying for each unit for the apartments in Tremont?
What is the total security deposit paid by Mental Health Services?
Do you have a lease?
Please provide a copy of the lease.
Did you know that Big Oak LLC is delinquent on their property taxes?
Where did the transferred clients live before they were move to Lakewood?
What is the address?
Did you share that building with any other public agency?
If so what is that name of that agency?
Is that agency moving out of that building?
If not, why not?
What type of building violations led to the decision to move your clients?
What specific violations led to the move to relocate?
Was the landlord given time to cure those violations?
What discussions took place between the management of Kingsway and MHS to correct the violations?
Please provide copies of all correspondence between Mental Health Services and the owners of the Tremont property.
Please provide copies of all correspondence between Mental Health Services and the City of Cleveland.
Where do you live?
Would you be comfortable having your clients as neighbors?
Why?
Will any those moved into Bonnieview have severe and persistent mental illness?
How do you define severe?
Do any of the residents to be moved to Bonnieview have felony records?
If so what are those felonies?
How many of your facilities are located in residential neighborhoods?
How many of your facilities are located in suburban areas?
Will MHS assume any responsibility for the conduct of its clients?
If so, what are the limits of that responsibility?
Does your agency have liability insurance?
What are the limits of that coverage?
Does your policy cover the conduct of the clients of MHS?
Does the MHS require the owner of Oakwood Manor to have liability insurance?
If so, what are those requirements?
If so, is MHS listed as an additional insured?
If so, is the City of Lakewood listed as an additional insured?
What services will the City of Lakewood be obligated to provide to your residents?
Who will pay for those services?
What affect does locating a homeless facility in a middleclass residential area have on the property values of that area?
Was that a consideration or the part of any discussion?
If so, provide the details.
Will MHS house any children in the facility?
If not, are there any plans to move children into Big Oak?
What type of special services will those children require?
Why did you choose Lakewood?
What type of onsite mental health services will be provided?
Do your residents have health insurance?
Who is responsible for their health care?
What type of physical disabilities do your tenants have?
What type of treatment are they receiving?
Who provides that treatment?
Who pays for that treatment?
If one of your clients needs the services of Lakewood’s EMS who pays for that service?
If your clients needs emergency medical care who pays for it?
Where did your clients in Tremont go for medical care?
If your clients are arrested who is responsible for providing them with a lawyer?
Under what conditions do you deny further housing assistance to your clients?
Where do they go when that housing is denied?
What type of conduct would be grounds for an eviction from your facilities?
Can you guarantee the safety of the residents in the surrounding area?
Do any of your clients have a history of violent behavior?
If so, what type of behavior?
Do your residents have any income?
Do your residents pay anything for their housing or other needs provided by Mental Health Services?
Do any of your residents have a history of drug use?
What type of drugs?
Who supplies those drugs?
Do the suppliers deliver those drugs to the client or does the client have to buy in the streets?
Does MHS have a risk management strategy for the clients to be housed at Bonnieview?
How can the people in the Bonnieview neighborhood help your clients?
What positive affect will the MHS move to Bonnieview have on the quality of life in the neighborhood?
What negative affect will the MHS move to Bonnieview have on the quality of life in the neighborhood?
What is your policy regarding aggressive behavior?
Does that policy include conduct outside the building? Does that policy cover behavior in the neighborhood?
Do you have a warnings and exclusions policy?
If so please provide a copy.
Does MHS have a written code of conduct for its housing clients?
If so, please provide a copy.
What type of services will be provided to your clients at Bonnieview?
What type of night time security will be provided?
Will there be a MHS representative on site at all times?
What are your minimum standards for dealing with serious incidents?
How long do you keep written records for serious incidents?
Are those records available for public viewing?
Will the MHS report all serious incidents to police?
Under what conditions will serious incidents not be reported to police?
Does MHS assume any financial responsibility for the actions of its clients?
Is there any history of violence against the staff of MHS?
If so, please provide the details.
If so, please provide copies of the police reports.
What is the expected turnover rate for the Bonnieview building?
Will new residents be screened for criminal records?
Will those with criminal records be denied housing at Bonnieview?
Will sex offenders be denied housing at Bonnieview?
How much money does MHS receive each year from the State of Ohio?
What is the source of those funds?
How much money does MHS receive each year from Cuyahoga County?
What is the source of those funds?
How much money does MHS receive each year from the Federal Government?
How much money does MHS receive each year from donations from foundations?
What are the names of those foundations?

[Bill Call]

I will be giving some thought to the financial aspects of this deal.

Oak Tree is a neglected building that is an absolute disgrace and an affront to the community. The owners looted their own investment and were set to pay the price. Instead a government financed agency is all set to send the owners a steady income stream of $350,000 per year. No questions asked. Nice.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Ivor/All

Most of the time, these people are brought here on grant money that runs for a limited
amount of time. Other programs like Hidden Village are ongoing programs, that as the
adult reaches probation another person comes in and replaces their spot in the program.
With the refugees it is a set number of months, then various Lakewood programs that do
wonderful work like the Family Room, can apply for other grant or government monies.

I would like to also point out that no one is blaming city hall or council for any of this. I
would say that all of us think city hall is doing a damn good job despite the loading up
of our city with people that will not add to the tax base, but need our services more than
your average Lakewoodite. I think we are trying to underline the serious problems facing
city hall from outside the city, and the various regional programs that have chosen Lakewood
for their various release programs. The same could be said for the schools, these people
do have an impact on "No Child Left Behind" scores. The same is true with the library as
I have pointed out, that have gone from an incident a month to many incidents a day. Which
again underlines just how this can tax a system.

As I mentioned earlier the city was very quietly fighting racism charges that could have
crippled the city as it did Parma, not to mention a fine of who knows how many millions.
I had a couple meetings with the Mayor FitzGerald who was properly worried over the
potential outcome, and the city spent a ton of money defending themselves for was the
actions of previous administrations that were showing the strain and frustrations of seeing
wave after wave washing ashore with very little control over where, who or how.

Bill

A very good list of questions. Is this the list you sent them?

I interviewed a resident of Bonnieview yesterday, and it was odd hearing how they became
aware of what was going on. More people going through the garbage they had put out
for collection. As he said, it was like everytime I looked out the window another person
going through my nice neat pile of rubbish, that slowly seemed to get more and more
scattered as the day went on.


.

[Jim O'Bryan]

AS many of my posts seem confusing, let me state.

The George administration and the city were cleared by a very tough panel of any wrong
doing in the issue over Hidden Village, and the the charges of racism.

Also I have found out that both parties were bonded so legal expenses were under
written by the insurance companies not by the city directly.

On other notes of why and what.

Speaking with one of the most knowledgeable people in the city on Urban Transformation
and the hows and whys Chris Johnson, who is also on the Library Board, and other civic
groups, and a damn good guy. The conversation took place a couple years ago if not longer.

Chris was one of the people behind Cleveland's Mid-Town Corridor Project, and while they
were transforming a dying area of the city they would come across an occasional drug
halfway house, homeless shelter, etc. Where the owner of the house had filed for "status"
and was no receiving government and grant dollars to house paroles, drug offenders,
etc.

He stated that one of the very real problems with even relocating such a "business" is that
they are licensed through the address, and to move, means down time, not in services,
but in payment of the services. That sometimes these groups receive as much as $800 or
more a month per individual. This was speaking of a halfway home for violent offenders
located in Lakewood, that has as many as 20 people living in it every month. So that is a
rent of $16,000 a month for a regular house in Lakewood, and Cleveland. So you can see
why they would fight so hard not to be moved or closed. I believe they do not have to file
with the city, which might be worth looking into so you have little pockets popping up here
and there, that COULD be future problems.

FWIW

FWIW

[Danielle Masters]

If this apartment building is in such bad shape is the building department going after the owners?

As for income I would venture to guess that most of the residents probably get SSI and food assistance.

And I fail to see how bringing this group into Lakewood would lead to a tax increase. Perhaps we should have a quota of just how many needy people are allowed into Lakewood.

[Jim O'Bryan]

If this apartment building is in such bad shape is the building department going after the owners?

As for income I would venture to guess that most of the residents probably get SSI and food assistance.

And I fail to see how bringing this group into Lakewood would lead to a tax increase. Perhaps we should have a quota of just how many needy people are allowed into Lakewood.

Danielle

The building department has been going through a reorganization. Some things could slip
through the cracks, also I am sure it is not in such bad shape, but just unrented.

The reason it COULD lead to a tax increase is that as a general rule of thumb. Unemployed
use a larger amount of city services like ambulances, etc.

FWIW


.

[Danielle Masters]

Not always, after all I am both unemployed and mentally ill...but once again I am one of the lucky. I have people who care about me, sadly not everyone in my situation has that.

Also the same could be said about the elderly. They are old and unemployed and they also use ambulances but I know, I know they are off limits.

[Jerry Ritcey]

You can't means-test for residence. Or if you could, we'd end up kicking out all but the high rollers.

We're adding a little something to this month's sales contest. As you all know, first prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Anybody want to see second prize?
[Holds up prize]
Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.

- Blake, from Glengarry, Glen Ross

[Bill Call]

Bill

A very good list of questions. Is this the list you sent them?

Yes.

There are a lot of questions but Mr. Morse assured me he would provide the answers.

He seems to be a straight shooter. Usually, assurances of cooperation and responsiveness are just so much whoha.