MHS To Relocate Homeless From Cleveland To Lakewood

[Charlie Page]

Our new motto "Lakewood, we only want the young healthy tax payers"

More like “Lakewood, we want law abiding people who take care of their property, are responsible, respect others and add to the community in a productive way”. I’ll leave you to figure out what productive means but it has to do with other things than just paying taxes.

In every city there are givers and takers. People who are the “young healthy tax payers” are givers as in they pay more in taxes than benefits received. When the balance shifts to more people taking than giving, then the city has to decide to give less to the takers or ask the givers to give more. If the givers say no then the city must make some tough decisions.

Maybe I should answer my own question of are you ready to step up to the plate? Right now....no I’m not. Next year, maybe but not right now. Things are way to tight financially.

it is b-i-p-a-r-t-i-s-a-n.

It’s easy to be bipartisan....just compromise your values.

[ryan costa]

i'm out of the loop for what range of people today qualify as 'young' or as 'tax payers'.

the bars pay taxes, and there are many bars. and pubs and restaurants. realtors. insurance salesmen. IT consultants. fitness studios. auto shops. hair salons. pizza parlors. they rely on Customers.

today white collar professionals as a demographic are known for having children later, or fewer children. in comparison to some other groups. as a household they consume fewer resources. for a while. after a longer while, not so much.

most welfare recipients under 50 who may receive enough sponsorship to qualify as 'wards of state' (is this obsolete terminology) are content to hang out at Tower City. with adequate public transportation they can spend the day at Tower City, and less time in Lakewood. Great Northern and westgate are also greatful. back when i was a grocery bagger....we would have a rush of customers when the foodstamps arrived once a month. back in Elyria. there were some pretty hot women buying steak and lobster with foodstamps. I don't know if they were handicapped, but their boyfriends usually hung back and wore a lot of hip hop apparel: often they had pencil thin musteaches, but were not otherwise well groomed or poised. I'd help the women load the car trunk with groceries. the car trunks often had strong stereo speakers installed. the speakers are made in taiwan and korea. we have a high standard of living.

[Danielle Masters]

More like “Lakewood, we want law abiding people who take care of their property, are responsible, respect others and add to the community in a productive way”. I’ll leave you to figure out what productive means but it has to do with other things than just paying taxes.

In every city there are givers and takers. People who are the “young healthy tax payers” are givers as in they pay more in taxes than benefits received. When the balance shifts to more people taking than giving, then the city has to decide to give less to the takers or ask the givers to give more. If the givers say no then the city must make some tough decisions.

Maybe I should answer my own question of are you ready to step up to the plate? Right now....no I’m not. Next year, maybe but not right now. Things are way to tight financially.

First off wow. I am glad I am not your neighbor. I can't imagine how you would judge me being that I am mentally ill and all. I get the feeling you'd like to run me out of the city because I am mentally ill and I just might cause some problems.

From Bill's original post:

http://blog.cleveland.com/lakewoodsunpo ... r_hom.html

Oak Tree Manor's landlord has conducted standard background checks on all new tenants and Morse has stated that no tenants are sex offenders or have had a felony on their record in the last three years.

Please read these people are law abiding people. They have had a tough life, you should count your blessings that you are not burdened with a mental illness. Count your blessings that you don't have to take meds day in and day out knowing you will never get better. You should be thankful that you don't have an illness with such a disgusting stigma attatched to it. It is not a wonderful life. I have been in the hospital with people who are homeless, people at the mercy of society because they by no fault of their own are not able to be productive citizens. The way the mental ill are treated and talked about is disgusting. I am not going to be ashamed of myself. I do as much as I can. I try to be a productive citizen, it's not always easy and I am one of the very few lucky ones. I have friends and family and people to love me, while many of the mentally ill are shoved aside like the plague.

As for being tough economic times this is true. Many services are being taken away. It's tough on everyone especially those less able to fend for themselves. I live in Lakewood because I thought it was full of compassionate people, but I guess not everyone is as compassionate as they probably should be.

Once again I just want to say that if you are lucky enough to have never had to personally deal with mental illness you are very lucky in deed. I hope people can try and have a little compassion for people who are sick. There isn't a stigma against cancer or other diseases the way their is against mental illness, it really is disturbing, and honestly I should probably not be so vocal but I am fortunate in my circumstance and someone has to speak out.

[Danielle Masters]

Charlie one last question for you. Do you consider the takers just the mental ill or are the disabled or children or elderly also on your list of people you aren't willing to give to just because times are tough?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are okay with taking care of children and the elderly, the others you'd probably rather not even have to look at.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Wow.

[Ed Dickson]

Danielle,

I have only met you through the LO forum but will tell you I have a huge amount of respect for you. You should not be ashamed of who you are or what you are dealing with on a daily basis. You're willingness to speak out loud about it has earned you my forever respect and admiration. Hold your head up high and know that you have a new friend you may rely on if ever you have a need.

Ed

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

More like “Lakewood, we want law abiding people who take care of their property, are responsible, respect others and add to the community in a productive way”. I’ll leave you to figure out what productive means but it has to do with other things than just paying taxes.

I'm starting to get confused as to who the sane ones in this debate are. The one's who have battled mental illnesses and continue to win battles day after day, or the delusional guy who wants every citizen in Lakewood to be a perfect human, because he thinks his taxes are worth more than human life. Charlie, do they have to have blonde hair and blue eyes too?

Are you a tad bit out of touch with reality, or are you completely deranged?

This city has turned into one bizarre place.

[Gary Rice]

I can illustrate a parallel here, outlining another need for greater understanding for people having special needs, that might not immediately be apparent.

As a former teacher of children having learning differences and behavior disorders, the hidden nature of these manifestations may make it such that misunderstandings can abound in these areas, as well.

Children who outwardly might appear not to have issues, historically have oftentimes suffered, due to people being unwilling to adjust to their learning styles.

Amid charges that they were not listening, daydreaming, or avoiding their homework, many of these students continue to suffer the misunderstandings of involved adults.

Those having no immediately tangible evidence of difficulty often have to deal with other issues, including unfortunately at times, their own credibility.

At least there are strong anti-discrimination laws, (and good attorneys) making situations like these fewer and fewer.

Still, I do believe that we have a LONG ways to go as a society.

Again this is not simply a Lakewood issue. It's a human rights and understandings issue; and this thread seems indeed to be turning into a front line for that struggle

[Bill Call]

One of the things I discovered was that the Oak Tree Manor was mostly vacant. The building was facing foreclosure due to the failure to pay back taxes. Oak Tree Manor was in financial trouble because its owners chose to loot the business rather than reinvest in the business. They let the building decline as they raked in the revenue. Here is a rating of Oak Tree:

http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/OH ... Manor.html

One problem facing communities like Lakewood is the decline in the value and quality of its rental units. Out of town owner’s rake in the rents and neglect their buildings. Such eye sores drive down property values and encourage middle class flight. The process feeds on itself until a community reaches a point of no return.

The owners of Oak Tree Manor were set to be financially punished for looting their business. They have now been rescued by the taxpayer. I’m sure the looting will resume.

There is an excellent chance that the few taxpaying tenants left at Oak Tree Manor will be moving out. That will put new financial pressure on the owners. That is, unless some public agency comes to their rescue.

One other little point: One of the new residents of Oak Tree was recently seen with his pants around his ankles masturbating in the children’s section of the Lakewood Library. At the risk of sounding unwelcoming I’d like to say that I think that that’s not good.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Bill

Sorry should have jumped in sooner, was working spent the day in Collinwood, and night
in Parma. I saw where this was going, and new it was a massive misunderstanding that maybe I could sort, or maybe not.

The Call family are one of the great givers in the city of Lakewood. When the term was
invented of compassionate conservative, it was the Calls that always came to mind. Like
wise for the Pages who actions will always speak louder than their words. They work for
those that need help, and then ponder if it is the best way to handle these things.
BIG DIFFERENCE.

No one is saying they do not deserve a place to live or even if they should be funded.
I have not read though I could have missed it anyone asking anyone living here to GET OUT.

The very real and simple question is, how many people that MIGHT NOT ever add $$$$
to Lakewood's tax base, and possibly even economy can Lakewood or any city afford to
take in and help? I always look at cities like boats. In this REGION it is like boats on the
Titanic. The secret is to stay afloat, and this city, financially is sinking, thanks to the REGION.

The real issue is how many are coming in, and is anyone counting or even trying to keep
an eye on the many projects that are doing this. That is right, there are more than one,
actually more than 5 of these types of programs I know of. We have the Lutherans bringing
in violent offender teens that are being release because they are now adults and get their
second chance. I am not saying they do not deserve their second chance. But how many
can Lakewood support in a job poor economy, and cash poor city? Then we have Lutheran
and Catholic Charities loading up apartments doubles with refugees. I am not saying these
fine people, and I have spent time with the Somalis, have no right to live here. We are very lucky we got good Somalis. They are wonderful people. Of course Minneapolis was
not as lucky, where 500 of 750 Somalis ended up in prison for violent crimes
which points to another potential problem down the road. The Burmese and
Cambodians are great people, though the Burmese are having a harder time fitting in
society, but they are a peaceful group.

Now we can move into the Vets, and no one can say the Vets do not deserve everything
we have to offer. They have offered up their lives, and time away to protect this country,
that said the Vets we are getting heavily medicated and generally being stashed along
Clifton and Lake. Again I have had the pleasure to meet and spend time with many of them.
We might remember the story of Ken Warren at Walmart for the first time where he was
purchasing a new inflatable bed for one that had his stolen. We drove him out to Walmart
where Ken found him a suitable replacement.

Then there is the Methodist, and the Episcopalians, and the... and the... All loading, some
who have read and understood "Slaughter of Cities" could even say dumping more and
more into Lakewood. They are not coming here sponsored, as in the old days where "St
Peter's" all combined to bring in one Vietnamese family, mentored them, and found them
jobs, where once they got on their feet moved to Mentor.(true story) These are generally
groups that have a hard time assimilating, finding work, so are drains on the many wonderful
programs Lakewood offers. This is one reason why the Health and Human Service department
in Lakewood had grown so large. Dottie has a huge heart, and it is wonderful.

BUT we should ask a couple questions.
1) Is anyone charting or watching any of this?
2) The toughest question question of all, How many can we afford to help?

Lakewood is not the legendary lifeboat on the Titanic that had only three people in it. No
we are the lifeboat that is taking on water, and riding so low in the water we could sink
any day now. We have cut and cut and cut, we are giving up things that are near and
dear to all of us. What can we realistically afford, and how can we do more, if we can do more.

Now what we have to throw into this mix is the true impact in the city. We have a REGION
that is failing, we have a job market that is failing, we have a housing stock that has fallen
and basically been feral for years. We have a police department that is working so hard
they are getting frustrated enough to taser dogs. We have a city and its society falling apart.
What can we afford? Can we afford a new super prison built in the center of Lakewood where
we can get "The cream of the crop of criminals"? Can we afford another halfway house
for violent offenders that is located right next to the next housing development? Can
we afford another drug halfway house, or more indigents?

So we revisit the housing stock. There are places that are so rough in this city they cannot
even apply for Section 8. That means it attracts people that cannot even apply for section8.
This would be criminals or people that acted poorly while under Section 8. Remember when
Tom Bullock and the Mayor accused the last mayor of not enforcing Section 8 laws that
would run criminals out of Lakewood that broke laws while getting section 8? Well to my
knowledge the only person that has followed through was Councilman Bullock, and this
was only after the home next to Ken was broken into while the woman was taking a
shower. Two or three youths broke in, she screamed called police they were eventually
caught, and when Ken called and said, "What about that campaign promise" actions were
finally taken.

Something we have not even spoken of, was the lawsuit against the city. The halfway house
for teen violent offenders was opened and started almost in the dark of night. An apartment building(s) that had been emptied, was handed over without any proper licensing
to Lutherans for this use. The landlord who lives in Beechwood, I believe, was more than
happy to fill these buildings anyway he could. After all, not in his neighborhood. Now the
problem is once these things are set in motion, they are nearly impossible to change or fix.
So the last mayor, and building inspector said, if they are here let's make sure they are safe
and that the building is up to code. And visited often. No where near as often as the police
were called by neighbors for missing bikes, vulgarity, shop lifting etc. But enough that the
owner decided to file "racism" charges against the mayor and the city that could have cost
the city millions and millions. Now I have known about this place since it was started, and
I will admit the city was more than a little disappointed they were not told. But RACE never
came into any part of the issue. It was not in code or in anyway part of the "problem." But
it was an easy reach for the landlord, and he found a very famous lawyer to handle the
case. A true nightmare for the city. Recently we were found not guilty of this, though rumor
has the landlord wanting to go to civil court.

So add into this, that an actual conversation two weeks ago was making "Clifton Park" a
gated community, or even north of the William Sonoma line breaking away from Lakewood
and forming a new community. Of course this would be possible if we regionalized, and
they would get the regional fire department and police. What is even more odd is that
some of these people also run groups in town that would love to see regionalization come
to Lakewood and are actively trying for it, even selling beer and snake oil to the "poor"
folks to fund the wall down the middle of Lake Road.

This city has a lot of very real decisions to make, one that is a no brainer is that we must
pull together. We need to take a look and see what master these various groups are
catering too.

I think collectively no one is asking anyone to leave. You have arrived on the shores of
Lakewood and let us help you become and love being Lakewoodites. But how many
more can we take in before the boat sinks, and when it sinks it will happen very very
quickly.

FWIW


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[Gary Rice]

I think that Jim has thoughtfully addressed a great many of the real issues presently before our city.

The thing is, our increasingly cosmopolitan and technological world is connecting people into "regions" local, national, and international, that were formerly never thought possible. People HAVE to start interacting with people unlike themselves, more and more. In a resistance to this, we are seeing more proposed "walls" between people, more laws enacted, and more polemical rhetoric expressed.

Sometimes sadly, there is money to be made and opportunities to be gained in the spreading of rabble-rousing discussion.

We need to look at bigger pictures here, however.

On the one hand, many conservatives espouse "privatization" of social problems as a panacea for societal ills. Yet, as Jim points out above, when a great many private organizations get into the people-helping business, it can be difficult indeed to separate the wheat from the chaff. Oversight does indeed impact federal, state and local governments, and the result can be at once frustrating and overwhelming. Sometimes too, I would think that a few sweet-sounding organizations might become fronts for profit-takers and greedy people, looking for ways to exploit those in need.

Many liberals, on the other hand, would probably like to see more governmental centralization of assistance. This too, can bring it's own issues into the mix; as all too often, one size does not fit all- and again, far too many can start to fall between the cracks.

That this debate presently applies to national health care simply is an extension of the present problems going on already with the care of other aspects of the needy.

Add to all of this, the cry so often heard about "not in our community". The thing is, these issues presently abound in every community. Whether private or public, liberal or conservative, we need to continually call for continual oversight of proposed or ongoing programs, in order to insure compliance of basic human rights and dignity for all of our citizens, whether needful or not. That's why I enjoyed being on our local Community Development Block Grant Committee. If local agencies wanted federal money alocated to our community, I wanted answers to my questions!

We all have a voice in this discussion. I, for one, would not dismiss anyone having concerns about any program that might come to town. People need not be villainized for having honest concerns here.

Many, if not most of these concerns are legitimate. Helping others requires resources, time, money, and attention, whether "others" would be an elderly relative, a special-needs person, or even a companion animal.

All who live here deserve a basic standard quality of life.

For the most part, I think that our city is doing a pretty good job handling all of this already, but we must always look for ways to improve.

[Kate McCarthy]

My concern is the inappropriateness of the Oak Tree Manor for the program. The description of the program at Kingsway Manor on the website seems in contradiction to the program briefly described in the email shared by Kevin. The website describes “intensive treatment and supportive services” and employs the “clubhouse model of psychosocial rehabilitation” where the residents support each other and regularly meet together with staff. How that model will be successfully employed in a rundown apartment building near bars and railroad tracks is beyond me. Seems to me these residents are literally being dumped by MHS into an apartment building not suitable for their needs.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Seems to me these residents are literally being dumped by MHS into an apartment building not suitable for their needs.

Kate

"Dumped" just does not read as well in the brochure as “intensive treatment and supportive services” and employs the “clubhouse model of psychosocial rehabilitation”.


Gary

"For the most part, I think that our city is doing a pretty good job handling all of this already, but we must always look for ways to improve."

I am glad to see that you finally understand why we gave up backyard trash pick up, and
so many other special programs for seniors.


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[Gary Rice]

Yeah, right...

Sooner or later, it all becomes crystal clear as mud, does it not?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Yeah, right...

Sooner or later, it all becomes crystal clear as mud, does it not?

Gary

This is what they want, look at this thread. Confuse,and turn people against each other.
How can a person possibly say they do not like to help, the poor, the down trodden, those
not as advantaged as us. How can you not understand, the need to cut services, the need
to do our part, the need to do more. How can you not appreciate flowers, beer parties, etc.

This goes right back to Spiral Dynamics, the slaughter of cities, and the act of making us
think regional thinking, regional groups, and others are out to help us and our city!



We have seen groups and countries band together to do some pretty bad things, all in the
name of helping themselves.

This city really needs to get some critical chops going, and soon, or it is over.

Do we really need a new mall that runs from Warren to Arthur, south of Detroit? Do
we really need another mall that runs from Manor Park to Andrews north of Detroit? Do
we really need a large prison that runs from Detroit to Franklin between Alameda and
Lakewood? Do we need another mall behind the Beck Center? Do we really need to tear down all those apartments at the end of Detroit, and the homes, just to say finally we won? Do we really need to follow the lead of a couple looking to move on and get out?
Do we really need to let a small handful that lives north of Lake, tell everyone else what
is going on in our neighborhoods but not theirs?

Do we really need to sell our city's identity and success for a handful of magic beans?

Do we?


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