The Tasered Dog Story

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Kevin,

I was for the pit bull ban all along. Still am. Now the city wants to enact a law stating owners are allowed to walk dogs in parks, and then kicks a citizen out of the city for owning a boxer. Do you see the contradictions here?

As big of a drug possessing, weapon toting, violent dog owner you and the police paint this man to be, it still doesn't take away the decisions that were made on the city's behalf. I don't care about the dog owner as much as I care about the decision making of elected officials and those in power here in Lakewood. You can tell me this guy is the devil himself, it won't make you or the policeman or anyone at city hall more of a saint in my eyes. It just looks like you're using smear tactics to cover your own rear ends.

FWIW.

[Kevin Butler]

You can tell me this guy is the devil himself, it won't make you or the policeman or anyone at city hall more of a saint in my eyes. It just looks like you're using smear tactics to cover your own rear ends.

I'm the only person who published that statement from the police report as far as I know. (Virtually every police report details a suspect's criminal history to aid in the prosecution of the latest offense.) So you can accuse me of using smear tactics if you want, but no one else.

Of course, I wasn't trying to smear the owner or look saintly. I'm merely providing insight into what may have fueled part of this negotiated resolution (I wasn't there and didn't participate). And I'm also providing my opinion that it's not a bad outcome altogether in my view, if in fact the owner is a convicted gun and drug felon.

[Brad Hutchison]

Lakewood police shocked a dog with a Taser gun last week. Officers said the dog, which they believe is a pit bull, threatened them. The dog's owner, Daniel Kier, said Otis is not a pit bull, but a 1-year-old boxer.

This highlights perhaps the most ridiculous thing of all the ridiculous things about breed bans. What possible qualifications do the officers have for identifying the breed of any dog, especially a breed as non-specific as "pit bull?"

This is one of the many problems with the legislation, but no one would listen. This whole thing bears the stench of ignorance. I believe Ivor's not too far off with one of his points... the breed ban passed, and was always going to pass, because council pandered to the mass hysteria that surrounds this issue, fed by the media; despite the fact that there is no end of research, from qualified experts, about breeds, breed bans, and dog safety that shows that breed bans are unfair, unfounded and ineffective... mayor and councilmembers, check your inboxes from a year ago, I sent it to you.

Go back and read Councilman Powers' article in support of the ban, the one that was published with mine. It's full of nothing but fear mongering rhetoric.

Councilman Butler - Really? We're commending the officer because he didn't act on his initial instinct to shoot the dog? That that was his first reaction should be running up red flags on every level of city hall.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Kevin,

Let me get this straight:
You weren't present at the negotiations,
You had nothing to do with them,
you don't know what was said or what was done?

but for the first line of defense when you jumped in after my post was that this man was a convicted drug and gun felon, which you admit has nothing to do with the dog being shocked. You didn't say that this was a dangerous animal that escaped, or that it was attacking the officer, or any of the other reasons that were listed by the police department in defense to shocking this dog twice. I'm sure that was in the police report too, right? Instead, as your reasoning behind all of this, you went after the owner's reputation and record.

Are you still sure you're not trying to make me doubt the character of the dog owner for the sake of justifying what was done to the dog and how this situation was handled?

[Ed Dickson]

Kevin,

I'm disappointed to say the least. Yes, we will disagree. I've heard several people use the "he was going to shoot the dog" angle. The fact is he didn't and that is not even where my questioning of the situation comes into play. My questioning comes in prior to the use of force to begin with regardless of that being a gun or taser.
What would be so wrong with saying that this situation should be looked at and evaluated from a standpoint of what could/should have been done differently? What I am hearing is "nope, we were right and that's it?" That is what is so disappointing.
If I told you that programs already exist, some of which are free, that could help educate officers to handle this better, would the city listen?
I'm not even going to ask or talk about the animal control angle yet.

This has been settled as far as the case goes but not as far the citizens are concerned. We have a lot of work to do to make this city a better place for animals and the people who choose to have them a part of their lives.

[Valerie Molinski]

Here's something that might make sense.

Instead of educating the entire police force, try staffing the Animal Control office a little better. We have ONE warden for the entire city and he doesn't even work full time, right, due to the budget cuts? At LEAST educate him so he knows how to deal with a roaming dog and be able to identify the breed at the very least. But the breed of whatever dog should have been pointless at this incident.

Regardless, I told a friend of mine this story as her husband is a police officer in Manhattan. She told me that her husband cannot do anything on calls like this until the animal control officer shows up. The AC person has to handle this and the police really cannot intervene.

This was another complaint on the passing of the breed ban... how do we enforce more laws with such limited funds and resources? I guess we do by tasing first and asking questions later.

[Kevin Butler]

If I told you that programs already exist, some of which are free, that could help educate officers to handle this better, would the city listen?

I don't think the idea of having officers who routinely deal with animals go through periodic training on animal behavior is a bad one. It's not exactly my purview because I'm in a legislative, not administrative, function, but it's worth chewing on.

I'm not sure it would've yielded a different result in this instance, but we can speculate on that until we're blue in the face.

Something to discuss, certainly, although not because I believe officers would've "handle[d] this better." I earnestly think officers handled this well. No one got hurt and the dog is perfectly healthy.

[Jerry Ritcey]

On Animal Planets various Animal Cops shows, they've dealt with dogs and other beasts sometimes much more aggressive than the dog in this case. I've never seen them use anything but a control stick. It may be the case we simply don't have enough animal control people to handle complaints about animals. Police can have training but they can't carry around equipment for everything.

[Christopher Bindel]

Ed,

I think when everyone says that they believe that this situation was handled the correct way I think that they mean with the current level of training. I do not believe that they are trying to say nothing should be done to prevent something like this from happening again in the future, just that in this specific instance, with the train the officer had, he made the right choice. I have yet to hear anyone say that the city will refuse training in these matters so lets wait and see. Hopefully you will be able to help them with this. Also I look forward to your response to my previous post.

Ivor,

I understand where your coming from saying that the man’s background should play no role in the dog case, and your right. In our legal system that’s not how things are supposed to work. However I think what Mr. Butler was trying to touch on is the fact often times the few animals that are involved in attacks usually come from homes of people with previous records that either neglect the dog or trains them to be violent. That might not have been true in this case, but that might be the reasoning behind some people’s opinions. And if I am off base I apologies to Mr. Butler

[J Hrlec]

From what I have read and heard the officer(s) acted suitable. I could have missed past stories but I haven't heard about dogs being subdued every week, so I assume this is a rare occurrence in Lakewood. No one was hurt and the dog survived... so I personally can move on. Of course I also have seen animal fanatics (not animal lovers, but fanatics) drag these types of occurrences to no end.

Of course this is just my opinion, you do not have to like it.

"Bark bark bark" .... (translated: "Don't tase me bro!")

[dl meckes]

I'm disappointed to say the least. Yes, we will disagree. I've heard several people use the "he was going to shoot the dog" angle. The fact is he didn't and that is not even where my questioning of the situation comes into play. My questioning comes in prior to the use of force to begin with regardless of that being a gun or taser.
What would be so wrong with saying that this situation should be looked at and evaluated from a standpoint of what could/should have been done differently? What I am hearing is "nope, we were right and that's it?" That is what is so disappointing.
If I told you that programs already exist, some of which are free, that could help educate officers to handle this better, would the city listen?
I'm not even going to ask or talk about the animal control angle yet.

This has been settled as far as the case goes but not as far the citizens are concerned. We have a lot of work to do to make this city a better place for animals and the people who choose to have them a part of their lives.

I am in complete agreement with Ed.

[Charlie Page]

Education is a good thing.

Police are only allotted so many hours of education per year.

If it's a choice of educating police to catch bad guys or learning the finer points of dog catching....I'd rather see them taught the latest techniques for catching bad guys.

[Missy Limkemann]

Education is a good thing.

Police are only allotted so many hours of education per year.

If it's a choice of educating police to catch bad guys or learning the finer points of dog catching....I'd rather see them taught the latest techniques for catching bad guys.

I woudl rather teach the police to take things like a threat more seriously than telling me to "chalk it up to a life experience"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See that is what I got when Batman was threatened. No one took it seriously...well you know what...IT IS SERIOUS TO ME!!!!!!!!!! It is my home, my dog, and myself that were threatened...it is not an experience, it is a threat. Minor to some, huge to me and I think the police should respect how we feel, and I think they should have respected me more. If this is the help I get, or better yet the advice I get, I am even more terrified to live here than before.

[Charlie Page]

Wow...whatever I said to set you off...I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're talking about. What happened?

[Missy Limkemann]

Oh you didnt set me off...so don't apologize. LOL.

I was outside with Batman a few days ago and a guy in a black truck drove down my street as I was in the front yard, made the "gun sign" with his hand and threatened Batman and basically me too. When I contacted a certain captain about this, I was told to not make a report and chalk it up to a life experience. Ummm...I felt threatened, the hand gesture alone scared the he** out of me, and you tell me it is not important. It is important.

Batman has had a lot of problems in this city. He is not a pit in any way shape or form (his picture is in this thread) and he has been verified by the warden to not be a pit, but yet I have been stopped by so many police officers walking him that I think I know most of them now. I have to carry around a folder of stuff with me when I do walk him just to show that he has been checked and frankly it is getting old. I am going to start wearing a sign that says "he is not a pit, warden approved him" ...LOL. But because of this Batman is terrified of men in uniform, and now (oh ed, I figured out Bat's problem...now i need your help) he is very protective of me. If my husband is not around, he will go nuts if some strange man comes near me. He used to love everyone, and now he is terrified. My father is visiting and Batman has never met him, and when he did, my husband was not around and I really thought Batman was going to eat him. (he didnt and I can control Batman easily as he is a momma' boy) but when my husband returned, Batman settled down and now my father is his new best friend. But before all of this, Batman loved everyone. Just everyone.