Graffiti out of control?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Is it just my imagination but is the entire city in the middle of a graffiti spree? I
have been collecting photos of graffiti for over ten years but this last months I
went from one shot a month, to over 230 photos of tagging in the city. I still
refuse to post any of the images as it only empowers them to do more and more.

Now I realized that Ward 2 Councilperson all but put an ad in the Freetimes for
graffiti artists, with his talk of collecting it and posting it on his Facebook page.
But I think even with that green light for graffiti vandals to come to Lakewood
and tag away for fame could not account for the amount of graffiti in the city
right now.

The judge had juvenile offenders taking graffiti off behind Rozi's and the next morning
it was retagged twice as bad as before.

Any thoughts?

.

[Vince Frantz]

Tagging is rampant. We started getting some tags at the skatepark this spring and saw them coming in over the summer. I see the same ones up on Madison by my office. There is a tag war going on right now it seems.

We have been doing some clean up sessions right in the middle of the day to let the young kids know that the skaters are cleaning it. After about 3 sessions we had made a huge dent in the tags and according to one of the grounds crew the skatepark has been all around more cared for ever since. There are more to be removed but we are shooting to have them all gone before skateboarding lessons start this Saturday.

Here is the thing. No one will remove that graffiti for you. Just buy some remover and keep it in your trunk. Remove what you see - whenever you see it. I cleaned off the Scene box in front of my office cause I was sick of looking at it.

Hit up Glenn at Lakewood Hardware. I tried all kinds of stuff from his store and for concrete and unpainted surfaces - a can of Misty Vandalism and Mark Remover worked the best. One of the grounds guys at Lakewood park let me test a can and it worked the best. Glenn is looking to stock some so go ask him for some.

For unpainted surfaces - spray some on - take to it with a heavy brush, then repeat until it is done. You have to find out what works for the areas that you can address.

Things I have tried from Lakewood Hardware:

Zinser Graffiti remover (works ok on markers if it is fresh - but still leaves a shadow)
Acetone (works great - but evaporates quick and runs QUICKLY on vertical surfaces)
Paint/Varnish Stripper (sticks to vertical surfaces - but doesnt do that great of a job)
Misty Vandalism/Mark Remover (worked on most any type of paint marker - removed underlying paint so only use on unpainted stuff)
Bleach (was very slow to work - but did help break things down)

Bottom line is that you can just do it yourself. There's no amount of counseling kids or writing the city. Just do it and when it comes back - do it again and again and again.

PS. Anyone who thinks getting people together to have a tag wall or graffiti wall please understand that this is not something to be supported.

[john crino]

Has anyone spoken to the local hardware/home depot stores re: locking up their paint.
NYC has all spray paint locked away from the juvies at their local HD and Lowes

[Vince Frantz]

You dont see spray paint much. It is mainly perm marker, bingo markers or bingo markers filled with acrylic or enamel paint. There are about 4 or 5 different types of markings. Some stuff is easier to remove than others.

BUt to your point - John - there is no way to stop people from doing this. There are only consequences and actions. So quickly removing it is best. The taggers are middle school and high school boys AND GIRLS so there are many ways they can get their paint.

[marklingm]

Is it just my imagination but is the entire city in the middle of a graffiti spree?

Jim,

It is not your imagination. There does appear to be spree. The official position seems to be that it is caused by youth with nothing to do.

Matt

[marklingm]

Taking the lead of the decorating garbage cans that is so "in."

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7388&start=240

Jim,

Some tagging seems to be self-inflicted.

Matt

[Jim O'Bryan]

It is not your imagination. There does appear to be spree. The official position seems to be that it is caused by youth with nothing to do.

Matt

There used to be a 24 hour law for removal, but much of it appears to be on city owned
things like signage, garbage cans, etc.

Vince thanks for the update, on what is going on at the skatepark and on the street. If
it is a tagging war then we all need to get involved. You are also correct that NONE of
it can be tolerated, and institutions need to be very wise in what is going on.

I can remember when a top urban planner was brought in for the Lakewood Public Library
Grand Re-Dedication. His idea, that he was paid for I believe was a "tagging wall." A place
for the youth to work out the frustrations and open themselves to expressing themselves.
I freaked out on him as did Ken. This is the kind of thing you might do WHEN you lose the
war on tagging. The New York subway and city had some "tagging" events when they
could no longer win the war, and it only got worse and worse. Mayor Blumberg brought in
a zero tolerance law, with incredibly hefty fines, that could be leveled against the person
and the parents, and in months it had a major effect of stopping the offenders.

The problem, and one reason I was so disappointed with our Ward 2 Councilperson who
I guess lost his critical thinking, while giving the interview, spoke of how cool the
tagging is, and how sophisticated the tagger was, it presented a huge welcome mat to
all taggers and graffiti artists in the county. Might as well have said, "I am a Lakewood
law maker, PLEASE come to my city and show me your art. I collect and will display it."

A terrible comment to be made.

.

[Jerry Ritcey]

I have doubts that many the teens doing the graffiti were inspired by the Councilperson's comments, or even know who he is.

[Brad Hutchison]

I'm a big believer in having teens who get in trouble clean in around the city... graffiti, litter, etc., regardless of what they got in trouble for. If you spent a Saturday scrubbing graffiti off the wall, you're not going to come back that night and tag it, and you're not going to want your friends to, either. A program like this can be implemented in a way that's less punitive and more about civic pride, which I think would amplify the effect.

Misty Vandalism? Sounds like a bruiser from G.L.O.W.

[Vince Frantz]

Brad

I don't think a program is the answer. Actually something very "unprogrammed" would be better suited. It can take a long time to remove one tag from concrete and so I have thought about..... this...........aaaaaaaaaa....lot....

So here goes

First off - forget thinking about citizens or juvies or punishing the guilty. Think of it more like an ecosystem with a certain species that is able to produce a tag when the stimulus arises. This species is reluctant to leave a tag if there are NONE around their environment because they don't want to be the first. However - once one tag is produced - that alone is a trigger for another organism of this tagging species to produce their own. The new tag still requires a certain environment to be born. It needs a discrete, unobserved opportunity in order that the originator avoid identification and conviction. Observed tags beget more tags!

SO this tagging species within this system responds to observing a new tag by adding their own tag. However - if there were some other species in this system that responded to a tag stimulus by removing it, there would be a pretty quick change in the dynamic as it would blunt one of the major stimuli of the first species.

ALSO - Imagine if this new species didn't need the clandestine opportunity to "leave their own mark" when removing a tag. This new species could leave their un-tag in broad daylight with or without an audience. However, the sheer thought of standing out front of a store or house and removing a tag carries enough social stigma to prevent more of these new species from appearing. This action - after all - is for the criminal. The guilty. The delinquent. Or the tax-payer funded city staff.

WTF???

And so - after removing about 30 or so tags - I can say that venturing into the crowded skatepark at 2pm with yellow gloves, brush and can of acetone brings a strange sense of euphoria! So much so that I contemplated donning a ski mask to complete the thrill.

Then again - maybe I have inhaled too much acetone.

[Brad Hutchison]

Vince,

I love your analogy... you've been playing too much Spore. And I wasn't really able to pull a solution out of it. But, to play along, I guess my suggestion, ideally, flips taggers into un-taggers, hopefully in a viral way. More Othello than Spore, perhaps.

[ryan costa]

the solution to most "youth" type crimes is to beat them on the legs with a truncheon or dowel until they are too sore to run away. then put them to work scrubbing, sanding, or painting. in case of emergency remove cell phone privileges.

[Vince Frantz]

Brad - I have yet to play Spore but I am a fan of evolutionary biology. Othello would be a good analogy if conversion was a possibility. But just like taggers are born out of people who at one time didn't tag - the UnTaggers would likely come from the people who never removed one before. Which is to say that conversion from tagger to untagger is not ever a likely scenario nor is it a goal.

We'd have more hope if people did more than simply shoot photos of tags and make posts on message boards. That's right - if you read this thread and you aren't ready to start untagging then you have willingly and knowingly rejected the Un-Tagger Meme and therefore joined the ranks of those who aren't willing to do anything about this.

You would be in the majority - most people that witness an untagging don't start un-tagging right away.

But I will say this - un-tagging at the skatepark did spur several other un-taggers who would not have been born had they not seen the un-tagging going down in front of them.

Am I still being too subtle?

[Jim O'Bryan]

We'd have more hope if people did more than simply shoot photos of tags and make posts on message boards. That's right - if you read this thread and you aren't ready to start untagging then you have willingly and knowingly rejected the Un-Tagger Meme and therefore joined the ranks of those who aren't willing to do anything about this.

Vince

You raise many valid points especially taking matters into your own hands.

My questions would be...

You have a vested interest in the skatepark. You and Stosh finally got things moving, and
got it built. You are a boarder, and teach and have businesses that revolve around skate
boarding. So you can easily see the skatepark as "your baby." So cleaning it makes sense
and gives a sense of satisfaction.

But how many other things have you removed tagging from?

The use of acetone on most painted surfaces, cause a nasty reaction, that many taggers
that I have spoken with feel just as empowered, as with the original tagging. I remember
being in Sonoma over a decade ago. Someone had painted a huge swastika maybe 100'
in diameter on the large rock in the middle of town. They had cleaned it so instead of
a black swastika it was a lighter pink swastika on red rocks.

Over by me the city merely painted them gray, on a brown/beige wall, and now their paint
is falling off and the graffiti is back. We both know this gives them too much pleasure.

So should the city, along with all of us be doing a better job? Should the city spend more
money on getting rid and catching the taggers, or flowerbaskets? Should the city spend
nearly $10,000 on cornhole promotions, or graffiti? Should the city buy massive amounts
of elephant snot, and make it available to residents to remove graffiti? Is the state of the
city such, that we all need to carry a variety of solvents around?

One thing I have always wondered is what are the benefits of bringing outsiders in
and promoting a city, or area that is filthy and unkept? Does it not make people go
back home, and say "Was in Lakewood today, whew!" The analogy is frosting and
uncooked cake.

I understand the idea. See litter pick it up. Graffiti by its nature is very different and much
harder to pick up.

Jerry

I have interviewed the graffiti "artist" that was responsible for the Bullock piece. Decided
to never let it see the light of day, but working it into the book. He has 10 copies of the
Scene article, one framed on the wall. All his friends know about it. The artist is not a
teen but a 22 year-old that was frustrated that his councilman was doing nothing. Other
taggers have read it. I have a girl that works part time at AGS Printwear, she is probably
a graffiti artist. Very talented, that we got from an work program. She has sketch book
after sketch book, of good art that all has that "graffiti" feel to it. She loved the piece. I
told her, "I see once piece of her art on a wall in Lakewood, job over."

If taggers read one publication in this county, it is probably the Scene, as it is geared to
those out at night, having fun, and young. The piece was insightful as Michael is a very
good writer and Observer. But from the council person's side, ego driven, desperate to
get press and buy cool. It was stupid.

Brad

GLOW comment

.

[Vince Frantz]

Jim

I may have come off a bit obtuse in that last post. But I do remove graffiti outside the skatepark along the routes I normally walk around madison. Most recently, the scene box, and the ATT box (that one is back again) and I am telling you when I see it elsewhere I get that familiar itch to try to get rid of it. I also only weed the flowers around these areas and actually do most of my trash picking around them as well.

Of course I care about the skatepark because I am looking at the graffiti when I am there. Other skaters who didn't work on its design were also interested to learn how to remove tags from the skatepark. Many would sit around while I tried various things and wait to see what worked or not. I met a lot of new friends this way actually.

I guess I would say that it takes being selfish about the places you frequent since it DOES take more effort than bending over and picking up some trash. And yes - many surfaces can't just be brushed down with heavy chemicals. But they can be painted over, bleached, sanded, etc. You just have to learn what works on the surfaces you care about.

Funny story - Sunday morning after 4th of July - I hopped fence at the skatepark to remove tags at about 7:30 am (trying to beat the heat) and a man was walking around the TRASHED Lakewood park with a garbage bag. He was not from the city - he was just a guy with a really nice truck. I thought that was pretty cool since the entire park was trashed from the crowd. He came up to the skatepark fence and said "Mornin! If you find any cans - toss them over the fence for me will you?" (the skatepark was still locked up)

So at that point I realized he was one of those species that only responds to cans as stimuli. He walked right past or even sifted through any non-aluminum trash and sought out only the cans. "What a strange breed" I thought to myself. He covered the same square yardage needed to pick up all the trash - but only bent down and picked up cans. Yet here I am only focused on this 9500 sq ft skatepark when there is trash ALL around it.

It isn't lost on me that people would likely have certain areas that they may care for more than others. And perhaps only certain kinds of trash or tags may only attract a certain breed of citizen. But this IS the unprogrammed aspect of the ecosystem and it somehow got us out there almost a full hour BEFORE the tax-payer funded city program showed up. (not knocking them - they showed up about 8:30 in full force! - Dave Seman and the entire crew swarmed the park to get it cleaned up)