Who Runs The Schools?

[Gary Rice]

Thealexa,

You are correct in that we have traditionally, infinitely high expectations for every American child, and that has formed the philosophical basis for American Education. Horace Mann (and others going back to the time of McGuffey in the 1830's at Miami University in Ohio) have all been leaders in a proverbial "no limits for American Education" agrument.

That vocational and practical education has had to fight, tooth and nail, for a place in the American system is no secret. That it is needed is no secret either. The BIG questions would be at what point that begins, and who makes that decision. 8th grade traditionally was when those decisions were being made, but again, many traditional educators and business leaders have always argued for more and more academic classes in order to get a "real" high school diploma, even for vo-ed students.

One problem has been that of perception; the stigma that, somehow, vocational education was for those in some way less able to do academics, and that has been a real shame. Ask a calculus major for example, how to tune an engine, and you may get a strange look. The thing is, we all have areas that we excel in, and are weak in. We all need pushed to our personal potentials. On the other hand, there needs to be flexibility as well. That has been one of the GREAT discussions philosophically in American education.

In other parts of the world, it can be very cut and dry...You WILL be a mechanic, welder, or whatever. We don't do things that way in this country.

[Thealexa Becker]

Vocation only holds that stigma in this country because we think you're not as successful if you don't become a doctor, lawyer, or engineer. There is no stigma like that against vocations in other countries and as a result occupations like welders and even teachers get paid better so there is more incentive.

I can't tell you the number of times in this city alone I have gotten somewhat disapproving looks when they ask what I want to go into and I don't respond math, science, or law.

And yet on the flip side I can't say the number of times that I have gotten what I see as somewhat derogatory reactions to my academic ability from people in this city. It's almost as if everyone is expected to become a rocket scientist, but when they do, there is almost a stigma for being too smart. And that is a problem which occurs here in Lakewood and is even part of Jim's original allegations in this thread.

How many people got incensed because this third party called themselves "gifted"? Certainly whoever this is probably is a bit full of themselves, but the relevant information was that they thought of themselves as "gifted" not anything else.

So i would argue that it is just as hard in this city to get support for the gifted classes as it is to get support for vocation. They both have stigmas.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Thealexa, those stigmas are all over the world. You have the "nerdy" "gifted" kids that are book worms, and then you have the kids that are artistic or want to become social workers or psychology majors. Obviously, the job market is more in favor of the chemistry major than the interior design major, but if I can give you any advice it would be to forget those stigmas, or how people respond to what your major is.

If you're pursuing a career for someone else, you won't be happy, and in return you won't be successful.

It's your future, and your future job. You will have to wake up every morning and go to work, not the people that look at you funny. I guarantee if you do what you love and become good at what you love, those nay-sayers will be envious because they're probably stuck doing something they have to do. Don't let something like a stigma deter you from your aspirations, because you're only young once.

[Gary Rice]

I did a series of talks for a number of students at Harding,Garfield and at Lakewood High School recently. Some seemed to be amazed at the fun that I was having with my life. One of the things that I shared with the students was what a great life I've had professionally. I then told them that there were essentially two ways to make a living-

doing something they liked, or something they did not like.

Which way would they prefer to pay their bills?

At that point, I suggested that they start thinking about all that while they were young.

I've enjoyed school teaching, music, photography, etc....

The hard part, is the decision-making as to which job direction(s) to take.

One thing for sure.

You'll find out REAL fast whether you like a job or not.

Back to the banjo....

[Christopher Bindel]

I agree with you that the United States does emphasize testing too much. However I’m not so sure about the tracking system (and yes what you described is tracking). Now I do not know the specific of the general European model, however as someone who really didn’t learn their education stride until sophomore year I’m for one glad we do not have a tracking system. If we did I would be fixing cars or toilets as apposed to teaching. That’s not to say there is anything wrong with those fields; however one should not be forced into a section of employment they are not interested in.

As for not forcing students to learn things that are not necessary for their field of study, I understand where you are coming from and agree, to a point. The only problem though is if you do not give students a basic understanding of certain things (I am not saying pre-calc is basic understanding, but algebra and geometry are) they will may have problems doing some things in the real world. It could also be harder for them to interact with other people. The reason universities as apposed to colleges have be come the popular form of higher education in this country is because, to some peoples chagrin, they require people to become well rounded. Not just to be educated in their field but also educated enough in other fields to hold educated conversations.

[Dee Martinez]

I dont recall the sponsor, John Hancock or some investment company, but there was a truly poignant ad campaign that ran on tv a few years ago.

"I wanted to be a _______________"

"But to pay the bills I became a _________________________"

"Now I can ______________________________"

You can laugh or cry at that (I admit that i cried) but more important, you can teach your kids to "follow their bliss."