"We The People" Stimulus Package

Tim Liston · Post by **Tim Liston** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:27 pm

Well it looks like a few more people are getting fed up with the arrogance of our â€œpublic servants,â€

ryan costa · Post by **ryan costa** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:31 pm

Thomas Paine was great for rousing up dissidence against the homeland. Most of his professional life involved government jobs, including as a tax collector.

The American Revolution succeeded because we had very little to rebel against. Our colonial revolutionary forebears were better fed, had more affordable land, and more autonomy than any civilized people I can remember.

The Boston Tea party was interesting. Taxed British Tea couldn't compete with Dutch untaxed blackmarket tea. However, This is the reason New Yorkers speak English today and not Dutch. Afterwards, Ben Franklin insisted we reimburse the british merchants for the tea. It was much easier being addicted to tea than being addicted to oil. It is easier to dump tea into the harbor than to dump oil into the harbor with confidence and outrage.

The American Revolution was financed by borrowing money from european states much worse than Britain. The Spirit of the American Revolution was mostly about Land Happiness and the feeling that we might get away with it.

Thomas Paine went on to develop many proto-socialist views. Minimum Wage, free education for all, etc.

Conservatives and Democrats alike have a "wink wink nod nod" attitude toward illegal aliens. They'd rather hire them than not hire them.

private business is the biggest engager in social engineering: automobiles, the commercial media, cosmetics, barbie dolls, hip hop, televangelism.

The businesses demanding and getting big bailouts built up their juice in the Reagan years and the bush years and the clinton years and the Bush years. Too Big To Fail, as the saying goes. Ravi Batra predicted this happening throughout the 1990s. I have no doubt that Republicans would be clamoring for further bailouts: their present refusal is opportunistic posturing.

According to this rolling stone article,

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/st ... as_bailout

Representative Boehner is one Congressman not reading the legislation: He denounces it based on legislation that isn't even in it. According to Ross Perot and Dennis Kucinich, most Congressmen did not read the legislation of NAFTA and WTO before constructing those organizations and our entry into them.

William Fraunfelder III · Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:19 pm

New yorkers speak English today, not Dutch, because of the biggest commodity-speculation error of all time. In 1667, The Dutch/East India Company traded the rights to New Amsterdam to the English/East India Company for the rights to Run Island, in the Indian Ocean, for nutmeg, not tea. For 300 years prior, nutmeg was thought to be a cure for the Plague. By 1820, nutmeg had been successfully transplanted elsewhere in the equitorial world. Oops. Seems someone is always trying to corner the market on the commodity du jour, only too often to find themselves the footnote to market forces.

ryan costa · Post by **ryan costa** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:48 pm

William Fraunfelder III wrote:New yorkers speak English today, not Dutch, because of the biggest commodity-speculation error of all time. In 1667, The Dutch/East India Company traded the rights to New Amsterdam to the English/East India Company for the rights to Run Island, in the Indian Ocean, for nutmeg, not tea. For 300 years prior, nutmeg was thought to be a cure for the Plague. By 1820, nutmeg had been successfully transplanted elsewhere in the equitorial world. Oops. Seems someone is always trying to corner the market on the commodity du jour, only too often to find themselves the footnote to market forces.

the negotiation you mentioned was one of many negotations. most of those negotiations punctuated the most recent war. 1667 was the end of the 2nd Anglo-Dutch War. The Dutch Republic(Republic?) vs the British Kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Dutch_War

There were at least 4 Anglo-Dutch Wars, in addition to whatever odd alliances and oppositions these countries had with each other in the constant warfare between european nations. It is beyond our frame of reference that nations should have wars so frequently, and switch allegiances so frequently.

New Netherlands did not become New York until after the third Anglo-Dutch War, at the Second Peace of WestMinster:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Angl ... estminster

While I cannot safely assume which conglomerate of political and policy ideas Thomas Paine would endorse today, I feel safe in suggesting he would not endorse many or all of the policies presented by the actor on youtube: Our world is a world Thomas Paine could not conceive of.

If a pundit is going to appropriate historical Americans for justifying their policies, I would prefer they do so with actual figures from historical american leadership of that era who performed well in that era: George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, Henry Knox.

in Addendum, 'trade' was very much a function and factor of state policy for most of the last 600 years of european history. We have reached the terminal evolution of that: our best 'traders' maneuvered America into invading Iraq. because we are dumb.

Just as many Scottish Tobacco Barons and colonial scottish tobacco barons supported the british crown during the revolutionary war, so too have our 2 or 3 biggest fruit corporations support the skillful overthrowing of democracies in Latin America.

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:03 pm

That video was too long. It is too much pie in the sky idealism. Would I like this nation to not be ran by zealots and crooks? Sure but in the end that will never happen. People are too lazy to revolt, too stand up to the "man". My self included. I do not have enough vacation time to march on Washington. I think the best we can hope for is to do just a little better than we are now 10 years down the road. A bit pessimistic? Sure but I am not having a very good day.

Dustin James · Post by **Dustin James** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:35 pm

Jim DeVito wrote:That video was too long. It is too much pie in the sky idealism. Would I like this nation to not be ran by zealots and crooks? Sure but in the end that will never happen. People are too lazy to revolt, too stand up to the "man". My self included. I do not have enough vacation time to march on Washington. I think the best we can hope for is to do just a little better than we are now 10 years down the road. A bit pessimistic? Sure but I am not having a very good day.

So sorry you're having a bad day. Take a look at our future through the magic of socialism history. Our former mother country is having a bit of problem with it. They just tried to borrow 500 billion pounds and found out they have no takers. We'll get there in just a few years. What would have been unthinkable before now. Again, sorry you are having a bad day.

Get ready for a bad rest of your - and your family's lives. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs

This is for real and you voted for it.

.

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:21 am

So what change are you all advocating? Are you going to pull a France and start burning tires and flipping police cars? Are you prepared to take up arms against this government? Are you prepared to be branded a terrorist or a freedom fighter? Somehow I think not. Or are you going to do nothing constructive and sit back and wait for the "I told you so" that may or may not come.

And yes I did vote for it. After seeing how the last eight years turned out I thought it was the right choice. So far it still is. Has Obama let me down? Sure he has. But he is one man leading the so called free world. He can please everyone all the time. Weather you voted for him or not he is your president and unless you are willing to raise your guns in revolution you need to get behind him or sit on the sidelines.

ryan costa · Post by **ryan costa** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:38 pm

by ignoring problems as long as possible, the bush administration and their neocon fellows did not get blamed for them as long as possible.(besides, the right people were getting spectacularly rich).

The Obama administration arrived just in time to get hit with the avalanche of a 28 year snow job.

Dustin James · Post by **Dustin James** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:26 pm

Oh please. Someday maybe the left will stop blaming Bush for everything, but evidently we need 4 year blocks to criticize a democrat. Give him a chance, etc. Uh huh.

The problem with internet time is that within 4 years, this young president and his willing accomplices (Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid) are about to spend this country to a place that can't be recovered. The numbers are so staggering we can't even comprehend them. You tell me if that is something worth watching or fighting?

Get over Bush Ryan, it's so boring and gone.

"We The People" Stimulus Package

"We The People" Stimulus Package

social

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