So who do we believe?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Do we believe the locals that told us time and time again, that Palin had been vetted, she was a perfect choice, and really knew her stuff.

or

McCain's campaign managers that now say she was in way over her head and a terrible choice?

Do we believe the locals that told us GWB was a great president, or the McCain national Republican team, that told him to lie low and stay away?

It is all so confusing.


.

[Jim DeVito]

Click Here Please

A daily show link making fun of the mangers coming out now. Not sure how much is true or not buy funny none the less.

[Stephen Eisel]

Politico: McCain staffers starting to rally to Palin’s defense; Update: Biegun debunks NAFTA, Africa smears

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/08/p ... s-defense/

[Charlie Page]

I love your trick questions Jim

Either way, the McCain campaign managers have made themselves look rather silly. Probably just jockeying for their next job.

I'm not a bumper sticker wisdom guy, but one of my favorites reads “Dare to think for yourselfâ€

[Jim O'Bryan]

Did you believe Biden and the Clintons during the primaries when they said Obama was lacking experience to be president? Or did you believe them when they were in ‘full support’ of the democratic nominee?

That one left me more confused than the recent McCain’s campaign manager’s comments.

Charlie

Well actually I did. In the primaries I voted for Hillary, for one very simple reasons. We know that she is smart, and can reach across the isle. We knew she could get things done, and I believe she had way more experience than any of the others based in part on her failed health care plan. However the reason I voted for her, given my past experience with wives generally wanting to do a much better job than spouses that had similar jobs or the same job. She not only would have had to do a better job as a woman(expected) but to show Bill how it was done.

However when Barack was running against Senator McCain and Governor Palin, the reasoning became completely different. Apples to orange, Oranges to prunes. So to speak. then it shifted to temperament, and what was said. The McCain ads were just terrible, rarely addressing what he would do, as opposed to knocking what President-elect Obama would do. Then we have his critical thought. While the surge might be working, how can we forget the lies and nightmare that got us into this war? Like shooting heroin and saying, "well I am not ODing now." like it is some success story.

I have always liked the FBI mentality with RICO crimes and the mob. Any business started through illegal means, is an illegal business from that point forward. This would be very true with every aspect of the Bush presidency.

Which gets us back to that darn critical thinking problem I have. People that tell me we needed to fight the Iraq War Part Duex(or one for that matter) just have let the facts bypass their critical chops. For those that think we needed to invade Iraq, instead of just getting Usama BinLadin through more covert means, just do not have critical thinking in my thought process. BinLadin, family member of friends never caught, but poppies replanted, Caspian Sea pipeline built(GWB said it is not about a pipeline), then instantly we go to war with a country that had NEVER attacked us, even in Gulf War I! We were told it was about weapons of mass destruction not oil, yet the military seized wells, and left "sensitive areas" unguarded until the 6 month of the war.

So we have a group that explained the need to attack Iraq, throwing out 200 years of policy. A group that said we need to control government thinking, while bankrupting America. A group that said it was not for oil, making it for oil. A group that said we need smaller government growing government, and starting shadow military ops. A group that said we have a full group of allies, having nearly none, and on and on and on and on. Telling us, McCain is change, never mind the voting record. Yes Palin is the right choice, fully vatted and ready for the job, when in fact anyone with a clear mind could see it for the farce it was. Simply put, let's grab the Hillary vote, when that failed she was shelved like a 50-year-old pole dancer at the Lido. It borders on perverse to back that platform.

As I look back it become laughable the stance of hardcore Republicans, they have to bend like pretzels to cover their asses. Free enterprise, vs no bid contracts for Haliburton. Whitewater, vs Cheney's stock with Haliburton and Bush's stock in Caryle. War on drugs with Afghani poppies driving the price down to under $25 a gram(an all time low). I really wish there was a way to get the right to look back and honestly assess what they said 12 years ago, and what they say now. One of the simplest is "2,000 Americans dead in 9/11." OK, how does that compare to 200,000 innocents killed in Afganistan and Iraq?

When I see the conversation on the left it is all about human rights, rules of law, catching some that fall through the cracks, and trying to grow America as stated in the Constitution. When I hear the talk on the right, it is screw everything for security, which has also been a complete failure as well.

So who do I believe? Palin who has been now set up to look like a foold by some on the right, and/or by the Republican's new Messiah in 2012 by others. Was John McCain LYING then or now? Is it true he wanted Joe Liberman and was FORCED to take Governor Palin, or is that hype too? Was the McCain campaign nothing but smoke, mirrors, shadows and lies, or something else. In the end, I think Senator McCain lost the election because he was doing business, just like GWB did. The right could not understand the CHANGE Americans were looking for.

Simply put, Americans wanted honesty and hard work, with intelligence and compassion back in the White House.

John lost me, when he hired the same people that derailed him in South Carolina. The Republican party lost all of my respect when they told me how good GWB was right up until, they dropped him and ran from him like he was Hannibal Lechter.

What bothers me, is why no one on the right sees that?

Is it really all about winning at all costs?

Do we really have to leave critical thought, and common sense at the door?

One of my favorite people on the right will argue for GWB, and the right until asked the tough questions, then the fumbling starts, usually ending with, "let's agree we disagree and move on!

Read Dan Slife's article in today's Observer. If the only change President Obama brings to the office is honesty, clear thought, and a bit of compassion back to the White House. We all have won.

I really do not expect much more than that.

FWIW

[sharon kinsella]

Charlie - Those remarks were made during the primaries when both Biden and Hillary wanted the nomination.

The same stuff happened in the Republican primaries.

That's just politics.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Charlie - Those remarks were made during the primaries when both Biden and Hillary wanted the nomination.

The same stuff happened in the Republican primaries.

That's just politics.

Sharon

I would hope that is not the case.

Why would we elect liars?

Simply put, it should always be America first, not just winning.

McCain made some serious inroads into my mind, then the same
old BS started. The none stop Rev. Wright at the end, were pitiful.
Win at all cost!

Rev. Wright? John Hagee? Do not know much of Wright, but Hagee is
another one waiting for the red heifer! That is crazy talk.

To stand on a stage with John Hagee, is to gleefully help the end
of the world along!


.

[sharon kinsella]

Jim - It's just politics. Just like it's just business.

The old saying "All's fair in love and war" applies.

It's not that they're liars as much as fierce competitors.

[Stephen Eisel]

Jim - It's just politics. Just like it's just business.

The old saying "All's fair in love and war" applies.

It's not that they're liars as much as fierce competitors.

No, they are liars..just sayin

[Charlie Page]

Fierce competitors compete fiercely. Liars lie. Desperate competitors lie fiercely.

[Stephen Eisel]

Fierce competitors compete fiercely. Liars lie. Desperate competitors lie fiercely.

100 pts for Charlie

[Jim O'Bryan]

Fierce competitors compete fiercely. Liars lie. Desperate competitors lie fiercely.

So then Bill Clinton was OK to lie?

Is this what you will teach your kids?

Lie, win at all costs?


.

[Charlie Page]

So then Bill Clinton was OK to lie?

Is this what you will teach your kids?

Lie, win at all costs?

Desperate politicians will do anything to win, including lying, taking credit for something they didn’t do, pointing fingers, etc.

I will teach my kids to play the game hard and fair. If they lose, do it with grace and respect. Not win at all costs through lies and acts of desperation.

[Mike Deneen]

Charlie is using a couple of tired right-wing techniques.

When right wingers get busted, they use the "everybody does it" defense. Plus, he is comparing apples to oranges.

It is normal for candidates to trash each other for the primaries, then kiss and make up for the general election.

However, it is extremely unusual -- perhaps unprecedented -- for a presidential campaign to trash its VP candidate AFTER the election.

I don't remember Kerry's people trashing Edwards.
Or Gore's trashing Lieberman
Or Dole's mocking Kemp
Or Dukakis/Bentsen, Mondale/Ferraro, etc.

It's not unusual for a VP choice to be second guessed after a loss....but I don't recall anything like this string of attacks.

This situation is quite weird....what is even stranger is that McCain's crowd HATES Romney, yet they are so disgusted with Caribou Barbie that they are willing to trash her, even at the expense of helping Romney in 2012.

[Stephen Eisel]

Charlie is using a couple of tired right-wing techniques.

When right wingers get busted, they use the "everybody does it" defense. Plus, he is comparing apples to oranges.

It is normal for candidates to trash each other for the primaries, then kiss and make up for the general election.

However, it is extremely unusual -- perhaps unprecedented -- for a presidential campaign to trash its VP candidate AFTER the election.

I don't remember Kerry's people trashing Edwards.
Or Gore's trashing Lieberman
Or Dole's mocking Kemp
Or Dukakis/Bentsen, Mondale/Ferraro, etc.

It's not unusual for a VP choice to be second guessed after a loss....but I don't recall anything like this string of attacks.

This situation is quite weird....what is even stranger is that McCain's crowd HATES Romney, yet they are so disgusted with Caribou Barbie that they are willing to trash her, even at the expense of helping Romney in 2012.

Mike you are correct...


Charlie and his technique caught on camera (clicky)