Crazy thought

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:13 pm

sharon kinsella wrote:Mr. Brown - You are arrogant and foolish. Obviously you sneer at those who are not priveleged as you and have no real understanding of compassion or caring.

I suggest, that while you are not on the "dole" you are a dolt.

I don't suffer fools gladly so I am more that happy that you will not debate me and are graciously allowing me to have the last word.

WOW!!!

Imagine a government that cannot run itself.... running healthcare....

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:15 pm

Stephen my children have government ran healthcare. I used to have government ran healthcare. It is very good care. Read my post about the care my son received a few weeks ago. Here in Ohio families that are covered by medicaid get fabulous care.

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:26 pm

Great... I still do not want the government taking over my healthcare.. These asshats end up ruininng everything that they touch including Fannie and Freddie.. (Social Security, public education, this nation and etc)

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:31 pm

Sure they make mistakes, obviously, but I don't exactly trust the private sector either. But something needs to be done. Oh and my kids go to public schools and here in Lakewood I would take our government run schools over any of the private schools, no offense meant to those who choose to put their kids in private schools. I think what matters is who is in charge and who are they are looking after. I truly believe that if Obama gets elected he will be looking after the little guy, I can't say the same about McCain. I know we are going to disagree Stephen so I don't plan on arguing with you. I just wanted to give my experience with government healthcare and government schools, both of which I feel are way above average.

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:34 pm

Sure they make mistakes, obviously, but I don't exactly trust the private sector either.

yep

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:41 pm

Stephen, Before I was able to get health care from my job, my family too received Medicare. We had our first child on Medicare. At a world renowned medical center. Both my wife and I were working. I was a cook she was a waitress. We both paid taxes so I felt no qualms taking assistance from the government. Over all we received excellent care. Dare I say better care form the insurance I have now. Sure I do not trust the government as far as I can throw my roll of tin foil. Sure a lot of government is a bunch of bumbling fools. That however does not mean they can not run a quality health care program.

The fact of the matter is it does not matter who runs it. It is the cost of health care in this country that has gotten out of control on an epic scale.

I have told this story before however I will tell it again as it illustrates my point. A friend of mine recently injured his wrist. He got a splint put on. Do you know what this splint cost? $200 dollars. Not the exam or the x-ray, the itemised bill showed this spice of molded plastic (made in china by the way) cost $200. That is the problem.

Note: I ment medicade not medicare.

sharon kinsella · Post by **sharon kinsella** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:41 pm

Stephen I have government run health care and it's the best I've ever had and I've had many, many health care providers.

By far, the best.

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:41 pm

Oh and my kids go to public schools and here in Lakewood I would take our government run schools over any of the private schools, no offense meant to those who choose to put their kids in private schools

Agree... but some school districts are not as fortunate as Lakewood..

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:48 pm

sharon kinsella wrote:Stephen I have government run health care and it's the best I've ever had and I've had many, many health care providers.

By far, the best.

But what happens when 50,000,000 or 100,000,000 people are added to government run healthcare? I agree that everyone should have healthcare... But for once, lets have a good plan...

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:52 pm

Yes Stephen some schools systems are not the best and the government is partially to blame in those cases. The government cannot be everything it takes people. Without parental involvement even the best school systems will fail. Even with the best healthcare in the world if the patient does not take care of themselves (going to the doctor/taking medications) then the healthcare system could fail. I am not saying that a government healthcare system would be perfect all the time, but what we have now is totally unacceptable. Something needs to change. A lot of people point at the problems with Canada's system and with England's system. Then how about we look at our unique circumstances here, we look at what other countries have done right and wrong and then we create the best damn system in the world. We can do it, we need to do it because our current system is fatally flawed.

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:52 pm

Sorry guys... I am very angry over this bailout... I think that we just pissed away $700 billion dollars...

PS Dennis Kucinich has done a great job appearing Fox.. (Neil Cavuto)

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:55 pm

Stephen Eisel wrote:Sorry guys... I am very angry over this bailout... I think that we just pissed away $700 billion dollars...

PS Dennis Kucinich has done a great job appearing Fox.. (Neil Cavuto)

Could not have said it better!

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:16 pm

agreed also :shock:

does this mean the end of the world is near?

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:22 pm

Danielle Masters wrote:agreed also

does this mean the end of the world is near?

yes...

Will Brown · Post by **Will Brown** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:06 pm

I think there is a basic misunderstanding on the part of a lot of posters. They claim to have received excellent care in a government health care program, when in fact they receive their excellent care from a private health care system, with their own costs borne by the government.

I think few of us have received care from a true government health care system, by which I mean one where staffing and procedures are provided by government employees.

Perhaps some of us remember the last time a government health care system made the news; the inadequate and uncaring treatment of injured service members at Walter Reed; hardly something to emulate.

Perhaps those who served in the military recall the government health care provided them. My experience has been that the workers are caring, but that staffing is often short, with treatment often deferred until they get the right people assigned, or with patients transferred hundreds of miles for critical treatment. The medical professionals I have talked with all praise the other employees, but rarely remain on duty, I would think because the military salaries for physicians are shockingly uncompetitive.

So if we set up a true government health care program, I think its realistic to anticipate that physicians' salaries will be non-competitive (certainly Congress would not countenance employees' salaries that exceeded their own), and the qality of care would reflect that.

So if we want to keep the system that all seem to acknowledge provides excellent care, the question is how will we pay for it?

Ignoring the rich, who can leave the country to get excellent medical care (or to avoid taxes that they view as too high, for that matter), that leaves a lot of us who will have to share the services, and pay for them. My belief is that a worker who is paying, say $750 a month for coverage to receive the same service that a person who is paying nothing receives, will soon realize that he can come out ahead by becoming a non-payer. That will soon lead to a system where the government has to cover all of us. I know the politicians get off on telling us someone else (employers) will be paying, but I think any employer with a decent attorney can find a way around that; those who can't will go out of business, unless they are domestic auto manufacturers, who have apparently convinced us that they are essential to our existence.

So to me we are talking about a program that will be extraordinarily expensive, with no prospects that it will ever end. And as we all suffer from the congressional schemes and lack of oversight that many think have us headed into recession, I'm not convinced that political posturing by people who cannot do serious analysis will give us a viable system.