Pit Bull Ban Passes

[Frank Murtaugh]

I commend Council members Antonio, Bullock, Butler, Dever, Powers, and Summers for passing the pit bull ban ordinance. The ordinance "grandfathers" the pit bulls whose owners are in compliance with existing law. It is important to note that none of the current owners are in compliance.

The above referenced Council members recognize simple reality. Pit bulls are a vicious breed as defined by the Ohio Revised Code and present a danger to the most vulnerable of our residents.

The law is fair to current owners of this vicious breed. Based on the existing record, most of these owners will continue to violate the Lakewood dangerous animal laws which exist to protect everyone in our city.

These dogs, more than any other breed, cause horrible injuries which often require thousands of dollars of medical care including reconstructive surgery. Photos of the injuries are easily accessed on the internet. For example see DogsBite.org..

This ordinance should reduce and ultimately eliminate the pit bull population in Lakewood and prevent the projected rapid increase in pit bull numbers.

Pit bulls are used throughout the United states as "guards" of meth labs, crack houses, cocaine and marijuana stashes, and of houses where other illegal activity is conducted. Pit bulls present major problems for law enforcement. Officers in numerous communities in our county regularly find it necessary to shoot these vicious animals in order to protect residents and themselves.

Pit bulls do not belong in Lakewood or any other civilized community. The ban is appropriate and sends a positive message to those looking to purchase homes in Lakewood and is greatly appreciated by the vast majority of current law abiding residents.

[Valerie Molinski]

. It is important to note that none of the current owners are in compliance.

Mr Murtaugh, I haven't read completely through your post, but the above bit of information was proven to be incorrect. After briefly skimming your post, you seem to have a lot of misinformation contained within.

[Brad Hutchison]

Pit bulls are a vicious breed as defined by the Ohio Revised Code and present a danger to the most vulnerable of our residents.

Are you a dog expert, sir? Please refer to some of my earlier posts for links to articles by experts that refute the concept of any breed being more inherently dangerous than any other breed.

The law is fair to current owners of this vicious breed. Based on the existing record, most of these owners will continue to violate the Lakewood dangerous animal laws which exist to protect everyone in our city.

It's not fair to professional breeders or anyone with a loyalty to the breed that would like to have others in the future. As one veterinarian pointed out to me, all breed bans do is prevent responible owners and breeders from continuing to further positive attributes in the breed. Only your "meth labs and crack houses" will continue to breed, selecting those qualities that we all find dangerous and appalling.

These dogs, more than any other breed, cause horrible injuries which often require thousands of dollars of medical care including reconstructive surgery. Photos of the injuries are easily accessed on the internet. For example see DogsBite.org..

This ordinance should reduce and ultimately eliminate the pit bull population in Lakewood and prevent the projected rapid increase in pit bull numbers.

Any dog over about 45 pounds is capable of such bites. This law probably will reduce the number of pit bulls, but it will do nothing to protect the citizens from dog bites.

Pit bulls do not belong in Lakewood or any other civilized community. The ban is appropriate and sends a positive message to those looking to purchase homes in Lakewood and is greatly appreciated by the vast majority of current law abiding residents.

Again, sir, you, like the council, are misinformed. Please do more than they did and speak to veterinarians, and read some of the articles I posted. I admire your desire to protect Lakewood's residents, a desire we all share, but this does nothing more than tread on personal freedoms.

[Ed Dickson]

Mr Murtaugh,

Please do your research before trying to speak on a subject. You have so many inaccuracies in your message about the "breed" it's laughable.

I don't know that I expect you to answer this but how many have you had to shoot this year? How many did you have to shoot last year? The year before? Now that you have achieved your mission, can we be assured the rampant meth lab business in Lakewood will disappear?

Just a few of the numerous questions I would have for you. Are you willing to answer the questions that council wouldn't? I'll hold my breath waiting for a response. Someone please prepare to call an ambulance.

Ed

[Ed Dickson]

[quote]
Sorry, long night, just finished looking over the paper, and was assured one more time, it is a good town, a good community. You are one reason why, so is Mary Louise, and you know, like it or not so is Brian Powers.



Jim,

I agree Lakewood is still a good community but as for Mr. Powers, he said several things to me on the phone which were later proven to be lies. One of them verified to me in a conversation with another member of council. That's not the sign of a good personto me.

Ed
[/quote]

[Brad Hutchison]

This is scary too:

e ...Any person found guilty of violating this section shall pay all expenses including shelter food boarding and veterinary expenses necessitated by the seliure of the dog and such other expense as may be required forthe destruction or permanent removal from the City of any such dog.

That would seem to mean that if the city impounds your dog, they are not responsible for feeding it, sheltering it, or in any way caring for it. Is that legal? Ethical?

At least they listened to us about the expense of BSL...

[Hope Robbins]

I am tired of people like you sir. Please get some education when you can come back and debate with fact. Nothing you stated is fact.
No one in compliance. You reallly don't want to go there do you?
Were you at the meeting sir? That is NOT what they said.


And what compliance are they talking about? I also tend to believe the non compliance issues are not major issues and one's we asked to create a commitee on to educate people about. Course that was IF the ban was NOT passed, not after. That was the entire point.

The most wide spread one I have seen is non-registered versus licensed. Little confusing ....have to register in Lakewood, license in Cuyahoga? Why do I have to be both registered with the county and the city? I only have to register my car once?

There is a huge difference between being non-compliant about keeping a dog "safely" contained, or on a leash/muzzle, or having insurance, a whole other issue to have someone not understand the difference between licensing them with both city and county. I love how people pick out bits and pieces of the story to suit them or make it sound more serious than it is. NO I AM NOT SAYING IT'S OKAY TO NOT BE IN COMPLIANCE. No I am not saying it's okay to be ignorant. That is why the stupid laws couldn't be enforced or complied with to begin with! Heck I have been at this 4 year before it was on your radar....and I am confused.

I am going to print the entire city ordinance I am going to walk into city hall and start quoting ordiances and if one Council member that voted for this ban doesn't know it, I think they should give up their seat. Seriously.

And you also forgot to mention those same dogs used as only meth lab watchers...are also Therapy dogs, Search & Rescue dogs?

DID ANYONE HERE SIT AND WATCH THE LACY PETERSON STORY????
Do you know what dog helped look for her? Our own...Dakota A Pit Bull.

They are police dogs, they are bomb sniffing dogs that keep your borders safe from terriorist attacks Frank. They are also drug sniffing dogs...the cities and officers that use these dogs, at least have the sense to use the dogs for good to root out the evil that uses them for evil purposes. Which is what I had hoped Lakewood would do, being it is "supposed" to be so progressive. The dogs are not evil those people are. They don't care about your ban. They will still be here in Lakewood sir. Their dogs will still be chained in the basement, they aren't out walking them around.

Man the ignorance appalls me....

This isnt' the same Frank Murtaugh Esq is it?

I agree Lakewood is still a good community but as for Mr. Powers, he said several things to me on the phone which were later proven to be lies. One of them verified to me in a conversation with another member of council. That's not the sign of a good personto me.

Ed same thing here. Not just Powers either. Sorry one of the council members is a personal friend of mine, and while I am not to happy with him right now he has never, not one time lied to me, violated any law, or my rights, or talked to me like a piece of crap. Sorry there a couple members of council that need to hit the road.

Sorry I get to say that. I am IN compliance.....I am a registerd voter, I do pay city taxes, I do own a home and pay property taxes, I am a US Citizen.

I don't care Frank, but you are wrong, and I am tired of people spouting off ignorance when Brad has half the facts in his other post.
Please give it a rest or come back with some proof / facts?

I don't have to agree with everyone, but if you are coming here to "debate" this you better have facts to back it up.

Again I ask is that Esquire?

That would seem to mean that if the city impounds your dog, they are not responsible for feeding it, sheltering it, or in any way caring for it. Is that legal? Ethical?

Brad,
Well considering they can kill it in 10 days why not starve it while waiting to gas it? Might be more humane than the gas chamber if you have ever seen an animal die that way, well you dont' want to it's horrible. Anyway, truthfully it means that they will provide it for them and you get the bill for EVERYTHING. Kind of like when your car gets impounded. You pay the tow, the storage...in this case, dog food and vet care too.

[Gary Rice]

Dear friends and neighbors,

I seem to have a reputation for trying to get people to get along. That's a tall order today...but I'm going to at least try, for the sake of our city.

Discussions like these can get a bit rough on a day of high emotion like today.

Remember though, that we all have to live with each other on the streets and in the stores every day.

Remember too, that issues like these have torn other communities apart when people have let their short fuses burn. As a city, Lakewood is better than that. I've lived here 50 years. I believe in Lakewood's strength.

There are civil remedies in the democratic process to pursue, if one is in disageement with a mayor's actions, or a council's voting, without getting negative with each other, or with them.

It takes time, but petitions can be collected for city-wide referendums on issues that concern the populace.

I would not doubt, as well, that there will be court challenges, as there have been in other cities to stuff like this.

Above all, please remember that we have to live together. That does not mean that we must agree. There are constructive ways to address these types of things. Let's try and keep our tempers in check as that process unfolds.

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
This just in.....
All Lakewood "Meth" labs agree to switch to doberman pinchers today.

Oh, and where are these "Meth"labs? Perhaps, we need a law banning them from our great City.

In fact, I'll bet that Lakewood has laws already banning illegal acts. That's what makes them illegal.

[Missy Limkemann]

Gary I agree with you.
But it is so hard for me because of the death threats I recieve when I dont even own a "pit" or the threats I get when walking down the street. My biggest fear is that someone is going to hurt me, my dog, or worse my children. And I feel this is going to tear the community apart.
If anyone would like to walk with me to keep me safe, please let me know.

[Jerry Ritcey]

I look forward to the council banning other things they don't like such as:

- high powered squirt guns
- baggy pants
- long white t-shirts
- earrings numbering more than 3 per ear

I also look forward to an iota of evidence any of these laws will - or are - actually doing good, and not just a waste of our time.

[Ryan Salo]

I am glad that Frank posted his thoughts. I think that most people in the city feel this way. I know I sure did prior to doing some more research.

I had conversations with a couple of city council members about this topic, they both thought the popular thing to do was enact this law.

I have always been one to oppose new laws. I like small less intrusive government, but my first thought when I heard the word pitbull was of drug dealers and dog fights. I was not educated on the matter.

I think that Frank’s comments show that there really needs to be a focus on education.

I also agree with Shawn that people to need to obey the laws. If extra insurance is REQUIRED, then people need it.

I had mentioned earlier in this post that I believe that this is going to be a law that is not used on the common citizen. I think it is going to be used to get the police involved in other issues.

I am not an expert on these dogs, and I don't want this to sound the wrong way, but it sure seems like the majority of these dogs are owned by people that you wouldn't want living in this city anyway. Dare I say it, but maybe this will be a way to keep "undesirables" out of the city.

I doubt anyone has actual statistics to prove that one way or the other considering so few of these dogs are registered correctly anyway.

[Ed Dickson]

Ryan,

Very good comments. Thanks for posting.

The problem is with keeping undesirables out this way you keep out and potentially drive away the desirables. This city doesn't need that. With the restrictive nature of not allowing dogs in the parks and add this on top of it, Lakewood is easily the most user unfriendly dog city in Northeast Ohio. Not to mention I firmly believe the City of Rocky River was just given some wonderful fodder for the lawsuit against the dog park.

Just a few more of my thoughts.

Ed

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Mr. Murtaugh, thanks for posting.

Brad,
I'm sure you can find "dog expert" opinions that support both sides of the argument. Just like you can find "expert" opinion for/against the Iraq war, or abortion, or gay marriage, it goes on.

Bottom line is that those two pitbulls behind my house that wanted to jump over the fence and rip my face off aren't welcome in this city anymore. No longer will I, or my family, be scared to sit peacefully in our back yard because we don't have to fear those monsters.

I bet if we did a survey of every resident of the city, the results would be so lob-sided for the ban that the pitbull owners would cry that it's not true.

That's the feeling I'm getting from residents I have spoken to about this and maybe it's just reality that the majority of Lakewood residents feel unsafe with pitbulls in the city.

Don't hate the council for it, because they represent the people. If the majority is for the ban then they did what was asked because it's a democracy. And no, they didn't forget about the present pitbull owners either because obviously they're not scooping up all the pitbulls in the city and putting them in shelters.

Yeah, dog owners lose their personal freedom of having a pitbull but just like when the nation's safety is a concern we citizens lose some rights and freedoms, when the majority of the city feels unsafe with pitbulls in the city, it's either the pitbulls or the rest of the residents. I don't like my phone being tapped into by the government and being harassed every time I go through an airport because I have my right to my personal space, but if it saves lives and makes us all safer at the end of the day, I guess I just shut up and live with it.

I just hate seeing four threads going on simultaneously with the same rants and complaints. There are other things going on in the city too, and they're being pushed further down the forum because threads are brought back to life and they all contain the same thing. Keep it simple, folks!

[Mike Deneen]

Hey Kiddo....this topic is much more important than your football photos, so deal with it.