"Monkeys" = $75 fine?

[Ryan Salo]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 8283.story

Is this disturbing to anyone else?

I have referred to my own kids as monkeys before.

I guess freedom of speech is gone...

[Jerry Ritcey]

Well, it's a loaded term given the horrific racism that used that type of analogy in the 19th and early 20th centuries. You can't just be unconscious of the past completely. For example, I had never heard the much more racist version of the rhyme "eeine, meenie, minie moe" and had no idea of it's history.

Still, it's true that having fines for saying something dumb is wrong-headed. I just don't want to live in places with "rules" like that.

Back to the original woman - she's honestly expecting kids to not play in trees on their own property? That's just nutty.

[ryan costa]

that's just stupid. the people who passed the ordinance and enforce it don't deserve to exist as professionals who pass ordinances or enforce them. The ordinance obviously doesn't prevent people from playing music too loud, failing to throw out their trash, or tearing up ornamental trees.

[Stephen Eisel]

Have these people ever listened to NWA?

[Valerie Molinski]

Yeah, I call my kids monkeys too, but I'm not black and have never had racial slurs that include references to monkeys/apes/gorillas hurled my way, you know? While the woman's intentions were probably innocent, though insensitive, it could look very differently from another point of view.

I do not support the fine, though. It seems they are fining her with the intent to penalize "hate" speech, but this seems to be more of a case of ignorance and thoughtlessness than anything.

[ryan costa]

there needs to be a concerted effort to educate people to use better words to disparage or criticize people who are behaving badly. Words that aren't gender specific or ethnic specific or race specific.

[Richard Cole]

This reminds me of the Howard Cosell "little monkey" comment as part of his commentary of a play by Alvin Garrett back in 1983. If I recall correctly, many viewed his comment as a racial slur, while others argued that he used the phrase to describe players of a certain stature, of any race/ethnicity.

Intent and context of comments often mean the difference between a percieved slur and an intended compliment or, an intended slur and a percieved compliment.

Use of language is a powerful tool.

[Ryan Salo]

Should offensive/racist language (whether intentional or accidental) be illegal? Should police be able to ticket you?

My opinion is that people have a right to be stupid and offensive with their words without fear of legal action.

[sharon kinsella]

That's right Ryan - we should be able to do and say anything we want to, to anyone.

Hell, no one needs impulse control, right?

[Richard Cole]

"Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), was a United States Supreme Court case based on the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. It held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless it is directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

Speech can be restricted, if the offensive (inflammatory) language is directed and likely to incite imminent lawless action, then there is the availability of legal action.

An individuals right to "stupidity" is a different question.

[Ryan Salo]

Richard,

Do the accidental or intentional racist remarks like the one the lady in IL used fit that definition? Who makes that call? Are only minority or special interest groups protected?

[Richard Cole]

Richard,

Do the accidental or intentional racist remarks like the one the lady in IL used fit that definition? Who makes that call? Are only minority or special interest groups protected?

As I understand it, the Brandemburg Test does not specifically apply to racist speech, rather any speech that is likely to result in lawless action.

I would argue, that the woman in IL was not engaging in speech that was directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action, her actions would not appear to meet the Brandenburg Test.

The call - in the US can't the call be made by us all?

In the initial post you wrote "I guess freedom of speech is gone... "

I agree.