Home as Thermos

Mark Timieski · Post by **Mark Timieski** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:58 pm

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m thinking of ways to keep the heat inside the house.

Does anyone have recommendations for home insulation installers?

Rockwool, Fiberglass, Cellulose?

Bryan Schwegler · Post by **Bryan Schwegler** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:13 am

I used USA Insulation and they used foam. Just had it done on 1/17 and I'm already seeing/feeling a huge difference.

TIM CARROLL · Post by **TIM CARROLL** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:14 am

We just did our house last summer, we hired Insulation Systems out of Willowick. They use cellulose and we have already noticed a difference in our house, which is 93 years old and had very little insulation.

c. dawson · Post by **c. dawson** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:19 pm

those of you who got your house insulated ... had you updated your wiring, or did you still have knob-and-tube wiring? I'd love to insulate my drafty old place, but I've got the old wiring, and from what I've read, it's a no-no to insulate around those old wires.

Bryan Schwegler · Post by **Bryan Schwegler** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:32 pm

c. dawson wrote:those of you who got your house insulated ... had you updated your wiring, or did you still have knob-and-tube wiring? I'd love to insulate my drafty old place, but I've got the old wiring, and from what I've read, it's a no-no to insulate around those old wires.

The wiring had all been just redone right before we moved in last April.

Mark Timieski · Post by **Mark Timieski** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:02 pm

I too have primarily knob and tube.

It looks like there was some concern that knob and tube insulation could be adversely effected by insulation, but these concerns turned out to be false.

http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/hem.d ... 60502.html
http://www.iccsafe.org/cgi-bin/ultimate ... 1;t=000832

One of the insulation sales reps. didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think using cellulose with knob and tube was a good idea because the boric acid (used as a bug replant and fire retardant) might be hard on the copper. I have not been able to find any data that would support this claim.

Knob and tube wiring is actually a pretty hardy system of moving energy, and does offer some benefits over the newer Romex style wiring. The power lines going down just about every street in our country are using the principles of knob and tube. The biggest issue with knob and tube is that there are usually too few outlets (by todayÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s standards) and with the system getting mangled by someone attempting to jimmy the fuse box and/or splicing other outlets into a fully loaded circuits.

Joe Ott · Post by **Joe Ott** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:58 pm

Mark Timieski wrote:The biggest issue with knob and tube is that there are usually too few outlets (by todayÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s standards)

Not to mention the lack of proper ground...

For those of you who had the blown in insulation, can you tell us the cost? Which would probably be typical for a Lkwd size house.

Thanks.

Bryan Schwegler · Post by **Bryan Schwegler** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:29 pm

I had foam insulation put into all the exterior walls, and cellulose insulation blown under the attic floor. They also insulated around the basement rafters with fiberglass batting.

It was about $4300.

Joe Ott · Post by **Joe Ott** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:17 pm

Thanks Bryan.

Did they blow the foam into the wall cavity from inside or outside? Have you had any seepage through the wall damaging wallpaper and/or paint?

I take it you are/were probably happy with their work?

Think I'll get a quote from them.

Thank you.
Joe

Bryan Schwegler · Post by **Bryan Schwegler** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:31 pm

Joe Ott wrote:Thanks Bryan.

Did they blow the foam into the wall cavity from inside or outside? Have you had any seepage through the wall damaging wallpaper and/or paint?

I take it you are/were probably happy with their work?

Think I'll get a quote from them.

Thank you.
Joe

Hi Joe,
They blew it in from the outside. Absolutely no seepage or any other damage inside from the foam. My mom also used them and recommended them to me.

Very professional, quick installation.

Mark Timieski · Post by **Mark Timieski** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:54 am

How did they access the wall cavity from the outside?

The contractors IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve spoken with want to drill holes all over the place and then put in plugs or patches. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m worried about the house looking like itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s been through a Mafia hit.

Bryan Schwegler · Post by **Bryan Schwegler** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:35 pm

Mark Timieski wrote:How did they access the wall cavity from the outside?

The contractors IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve spoken with want to drill holes all over the place and then put in plugs or patches. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m worried about the house looking like itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s been through a Mafia hit.

Yes, they drilled holes around the outside. I have vinyl siding on my house so they took that off first and then placed it back on when they were done.

c. dawson · Post by **c. dawson** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:02 pm

I still feel leery about insulating with knob and tube ... I've also read too many things that show it could potentially be a hazard. In and of itself, it's not bad wiring, and was probably wired in better than modern romex wiring is done in home construction today ... but in the 100 years since my house was built, and however long it's been since the electricity was wired in (I'm not sure exactly when, because I also have found gas lighting fixtures in some remodeling I've done), who knows how many times the original wiring was altered, likely by someone who didn't follow code, or even knew such a thing as the code existed?

I'm going to insulate my attic, but avoid the wiring, insulating up to a point, leaving a small gap for the wires, and then continuing on. For the walls, I'm not sure, though my age-old aluminum siding is getting to the point where it will likely need replaced, and I've been tempted by insulated vinyl siding. May not be a perfect solution, but it may work for this house.

Glenn Palmer · Post by **Glenn Palmer** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm

Having some history of dealing with this subject, I can shed a little light from the contractors I have dealt with. First when they insulate from the exterior of the home the original way was to drill and plug through the siding and sheathing which looked very shoddy and would not hold up over the warming and cooling cycles. The new method is to remove the siding across the level of insulation and drill through the sheathing only and then replace the siding. Regarding the electrical aspect, knob and tube design was able to cool due to the air space around the wire allowing 14 guage wire to carry 20 amps of service, when insulation is applied and stops the cooling portion 14 guage wire must now be limited to 15 amps of service to stop the overheating. Insulation contractors at one point were required to limit the current as part of their contract, I do not know if that is required of them anymore but you may limit it yourself very easily. To maintain 15 amps on a breaker panel the breakers that have knob and tube wiring can be replaced with 15amp breakers on a fuse panel the Edison based fuses (same base as a standard light bulb) should be removed and the amp limiting adapters should be screwed in to allow for current limiting type s fuses to be installed. I hope that this will clear up some confusion.

Ben VanLear · Post by **Ben VanLear** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:49 pm

I'm also very interested in improving home efficiency (even though I technically don't own a house in Lakewood yet

). My concern about blowing insulation beyond the Knob & tube wiring is trapping moisture. I found this
http://www.lkwdpl.org/homepres/narratives/insulation.htm
linked on the Lakewood Public Library page and it makes me kind of nervous about blowing in-wall insulation. Can anyone comment on the concern about moisture that this piece raises?