I never bought into the idea that everyone should own a house. The government has been busy converting renters into buyers with various schemes that do a disservice to the new homeowner and the communities in which they buy.
See this from the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la- ... -rightrail
I feel the same way about college educations. A while back one of the leading lights in the Ohio education establishment (I forgot who) was quoted as saying "everyone should have a chance to go to college".
No they shouldn't.
Not everyone is equipment for true college material. To the extent that you make college universally available you turn college into high school in much the same way we have turned high school into junior high school.
Not Everyone Should Own a Home or Go To College
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Bill Call
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ryan costa
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true
This is true.
but don't tell all the realtors. It takes a college degree to be a state licensed realtor.
but don't tell all the realtors. It takes a college degree to be a state licensed realtor.
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Mike Deneen
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I don't know who said the exact quote, but I interpret "everyone should have A CHANCE to go to college" to mean "noone should miss out on a college education due to money". I would hope that we all agree on that point.
I agree with famed educator Robert Montgomery Knight, who has said that "college isn't for everybody".
Or, as Judge Elihu Smails once said, "The world needs ditch diggers, too".
I agree with famed educator Robert Montgomery Knight, who has said that "college isn't for everybody".
Or, as Judge Elihu Smails once said, "The world needs ditch diggers, too".
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David Lay
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Brian Pedaci
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This is more true in LA than in Lakewood, Bill. While not everyone would be well-advised to choose real estate as their investment vehicle of choice, for most it is the best option out there. In a declining real-estate market, though, it might be advisable for those in good-value rentals to stay put and invest their money elsewhere for faster return.
Also, what Mike Deneen said. "Everyone should have a chance to go to college" does not mean "everyone should go to college". Only that no-one should be denied the opportunity - whether or not they can capitalize on that opportunity is up to them.
Also, what Mike Deneen said. "Everyone should have a chance to go to college" does not mean "everyone should go to college". Only that no-one should be denied the opportunity - whether or not they can capitalize on that opportunity is up to them.
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Lynn Farris
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Today a college education is what a high school diploma was for our parents. No, not everyone needs one but it limits your options when you don't have one.
I think the reason Habitat for Humanity was started (which by the way is not a government run organization) is that people realized that when people had their own homes they took better care of them. Habitat for Humanity has homeowners that work hard every day but would have difficulty buying a home through the conventional means. They work hard, pay their bills and put in sweat equity. That is a good thing and I think one of the best charities out there. My son worked for them through HS and loved it.
That is part of the American Dream that we are losing. People should be able to work hard, play by the rules and some day own their own home. It shouldn't be just the rich. We are becoming two nations the rich and the poor. I'd like to see a middle class again.
JMHO
I think the reason Habitat for Humanity was started (which by the way is not a government run organization) is that people realized that when people had their own homes they took better care of them. Habitat for Humanity has homeowners that work hard every day but would have difficulty buying a home through the conventional means. They work hard, pay their bills and put in sweat equity. That is a good thing and I think one of the best charities out there. My son worked for them through HS and loved it.
That is part of the American Dream that we are losing. People should be able to work hard, play by the rules and some day own their own home. It shouldn't be just the rich. We are becoming two nations the rich and the poor. I'd like to see a middle class again.
JMHO
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." ~ George Carlin
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Kevin Galvin
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Ms. Farris,
You wrote:
"That is part of the American Dream that we are losing. People should be able to work hard, play by the rules and some day own their own home. It shouldn't be just the rich. We are becoming two nations the rich and the poor. I'd like to see a middle class again."
This really kind of bothered me. My wife and I are homeowners who live south of Clifton. Most of our neighbors and people we socialize with fall into the "third America". By that I mean cops, firefighters, plumbers, teachers, electricians, secretaries, nurses, ect... Those of us in the 3rd America are largely ignored by the politicians and elitist type comments like you made only help convince them that we can be easily ignored.
Imagine the overworked nurse who puts in a 12 hour shift and comes home exhausted to have dinner with her plumber husband who spent all day sweating in someone's crawl space. After dinner they fly out the door to watch their daughter's softball game. (Of course they have to go to Cleveland because Lakewood's tax supported fields are reserved for adults.) Then it's home again, grab some sleep and do it again tomorrow.
If a member of the non-existent 3rd America complains about the section eight residents living next door because they are angry that their tax dollars are helping someone live at the same lifestyle that they are busting their butts to afford, they are told that they should be more understanding. If it is important that all be given an opportunity to have a middle class life style why stop there? Shouldn't a poor family with eight kids be given the opportunity to have a six bedroom home on the lake.
Perhaps you can ask your son how many Habitat for Humanity homes were built on acre size lots among $400,000 homes. Yes, everyone should be given the opportunity to own their own home. But, when housing is given to one and placed next to a family who had to bust their butt for their's it should not be hard to understand the resentment. I'll agree with Mayor George's staement from another thread where he commented about section eight being fairly dispersed throughout the county. Since we know that's not going to happen, perhaps Lakewood could work on a program where EVERY block in town must have one before any block can have a second. I'm just guessing here but when Cliff Dr., Wilbert, Lake Point, Arlington, ect... are all in the same boat, the demands for compassion may not be as loud.
You said that you want to see a middle class again. Stand at Belle and Clifton and walk one mile in any direction except north. The vast majority of the poeple you see will be middle class. Unfortunately, instead of being outspoken loud-mouths like me, they are quietly discussing when and where they should move.
You wrote:
"That is part of the American Dream that we are losing. People should be able to work hard, play by the rules and some day own their own home. It shouldn't be just the rich. We are becoming two nations the rich and the poor. I'd like to see a middle class again."
This really kind of bothered me. My wife and I are homeowners who live south of Clifton. Most of our neighbors and people we socialize with fall into the "third America". By that I mean cops, firefighters, plumbers, teachers, electricians, secretaries, nurses, ect... Those of us in the 3rd America are largely ignored by the politicians and elitist type comments like you made only help convince them that we can be easily ignored.
Imagine the overworked nurse who puts in a 12 hour shift and comes home exhausted to have dinner with her plumber husband who spent all day sweating in someone's crawl space. After dinner they fly out the door to watch their daughter's softball game. (Of course they have to go to Cleveland because Lakewood's tax supported fields are reserved for adults.) Then it's home again, grab some sleep and do it again tomorrow.
If a member of the non-existent 3rd America complains about the section eight residents living next door because they are angry that their tax dollars are helping someone live at the same lifestyle that they are busting their butts to afford, they are told that they should be more understanding. If it is important that all be given an opportunity to have a middle class life style why stop there? Shouldn't a poor family with eight kids be given the opportunity to have a six bedroom home on the lake.
Perhaps you can ask your son how many Habitat for Humanity homes were built on acre size lots among $400,000 homes. Yes, everyone should be given the opportunity to own their own home. But, when housing is given to one and placed next to a family who had to bust their butt for their's it should not be hard to understand the resentment. I'll agree with Mayor George's staement from another thread where he commented about section eight being fairly dispersed throughout the county. Since we know that's not going to happen, perhaps Lakewood could work on a program where EVERY block in town must have one before any block can have a second. I'm just guessing here but when Cliff Dr., Wilbert, Lake Point, Arlington, ect... are all in the same boat, the demands for compassion may not be as loud.
You said that you want to see a middle class again. Stand at Belle and Clifton and walk one mile in any direction except north. The vast majority of the poeple you see will be middle class. Unfortunately, instead of being outspoken loud-mouths like me, they are quietly discussing when and where they should move.
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ryan costa
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training
You need a Masters Degree to continue being a teacher these days. RNs practically require a masters degree. I'm not sure if this has improved the effectiveness of those services. But it is required to get into the "guild".
i think it was Dr.Rakowsky who said Europeans on track for a career in the professions practically have a bachelors by the time they are 18 or so. High School essentially ends around 15. The rest go into trade schools or just start working. This has probably changed since then. As average life expectancy increases it seems more necessary to stretch out the education process.
i think it was Dr.Rakowsky who said Europeans on track for a career in the professions practically have a bachelors by the time they are 18 or so. High School essentially ends around 15. The rest go into trade schools or just start working. This has probably changed since then. As average life expectancy increases it seems more necessary to stretch out the education process.
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Lynn Farris
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- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
- Contact:
Mr. Glavin,
I don't think we disagree too much. Yes, Habitat does face a NIMBY attitude. I was just reading about Arcosanti and Pablo Soleri tonight and he contends that Segregation - is one of the things that is destroying civilization. He is defining civilization as not just race - but as income and real estate.
I don't think my comments were elitist and I apologize if you think so. I am seeing this particularily with this administration (Bush - not George) the rich getting incredibly richer and it being so much harder for the middle class and poor to hold on. What is the evidence?
1) We are having a record number of foreclosures - but banks are recording record profits.
2) People are going bankrupt - the number one reason is health care - it isn't the nurses that you are talking about that are getting rich - it is the CEO's of insurance companies.
3) It is becoming more expensive to go to college. When I went to college, Financial Aid met need. Now colleges are gapping students and expecting parents to assume Plus loans. What an incredible loss this is that soon if this keeps up only the rich children will be able to attend college.
4) People have had their jobs outsourced. More and more are being downsized, losing wages, losing benefits.
People in the US as you clearly stated are working harder than ever and not keeping up.
A very interesting book is What's the Matter with Kansas. by Thomas Frank. He tells us that "The antropologists caution us in their sober way about a recipe for "growth" that blandly accepts a permanent impoverished c lass, ...they know poverty rocks. Poverty is profitable. Poverty makes stocks go up and labor come down. "
Some of the professions that you point out may still be middle class because they are goverment employees e.g, firefighters, cops, teachers - who haven't yet lost benefits and been downsized and outsourced but I would venture to say much of the middle class is disapearing everyday. Perhaps as poverty increases our need for police will increase - so maybe some professions will increase - but it is for a sad reason.
If you stood at the corner of Belle and Clifton and walked one mile in any direction (including north) if you would see people who are making significantly less now than they did 10 years ago in real dollars. Insurance is going up and people are being downsized and outsourced. Taxes are increasing. This isn't just the poor anymore - it is us - the middle class and I think we need to fight for survival.
But the answer to our survival isn't to destory the people that have less.
It is so easy to blame the poor for our problems. I contend that the poor are not the problem but merely a sympton of a society that has significant problems that need to be fixed.
The answer is to force our politicians to take away the incentives that are destroying us. When we pass laws that say that the government cannot negotiate for better prices for medicines that is an example of what I'm talking about. Or when we trade as equal partners without tarifs with countries that don't respect their employees or the environment that is a disincentive.
I pray that we wake up while their still is a middle class. We need more loud-mouths like both of us getting the problems solved.
JMHO
I don't think we disagree too much. Yes, Habitat does face a NIMBY attitude. I was just reading about Arcosanti and Pablo Soleri tonight and he contends that Segregation - is one of the things that is destroying civilization. He is defining civilization as not just race - but as income and real estate.
I don't think my comments were elitist and I apologize if you think so. I am seeing this particularily with this administration (Bush - not George) the rich getting incredibly richer and it being so much harder for the middle class and poor to hold on. What is the evidence?
1) We are having a record number of foreclosures - but banks are recording record profits.
2) People are going bankrupt - the number one reason is health care - it isn't the nurses that you are talking about that are getting rich - it is the CEO's of insurance companies.
3) It is becoming more expensive to go to college. When I went to college, Financial Aid met need. Now colleges are gapping students and expecting parents to assume Plus loans. What an incredible loss this is that soon if this keeps up only the rich children will be able to attend college.
4) People have had their jobs outsourced. More and more are being downsized, losing wages, losing benefits.
People in the US as you clearly stated are working harder than ever and not keeping up.
A very interesting book is What's the Matter with Kansas. by Thomas Frank. He tells us that "The antropologists caution us in their sober way about a recipe for "growth" that blandly accepts a permanent impoverished c lass, ...they know poverty rocks. Poverty is profitable. Poverty makes stocks go up and labor come down. "
Some of the professions that you point out may still be middle class because they are goverment employees e.g, firefighters, cops, teachers - who haven't yet lost benefits and been downsized and outsourced but I would venture to say much of the middle class is disapearing everyday. Perhaps as poverty increases our need for police will increase - so maybe some professions will increase - but it is for a sad reason.
If you stood at the corner of Belle and Clifton and walked one mile in any direction (including north) if you would see people who are making significantly less now than they did 10 years ago in real dollars. Insurance is going up and people are being downsized and outsourced. Taxes are increasing. This isn't just the poor anymore - it is us - the middle class and I think we need to fight for survival.
But the answer to our survival isn't to destory the people that have less.
It is so easy to blame the poor for our problems. I contend that the poor are not the problem but merely a sympton of a society that has significant problems that need to be fixed.
The answer is to force our politicians to take away the incentives that are destroying us. When we pass laws that say that the government cannot negotiate for better prices for medicines that is an example of what I'm talking about. Or when we trade as equal partners without tarifs with countries that don't respect their employees or the environment that is a disincentive.
I pray that we wake up while their still is a middle class. We need more loud-mouths like both of us getting the problems solved.
JMHO
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." ~ George Carlin
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Bill Call
- Posts: 3317
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:10 pm
College
Mike Deneen wrote:.. but I interpret "everyone should have A CHANCE to go to college" to mean "noone should miss out on a college education due to money". I would hope that we all agree on that point. o".
That is a fair interpretation.
The problem I have with how politician's deal with the cost of college because they:
1. Turn a blind eye to double digit increase in tuition. Why should college costs increase by 10% or 12% each year?
2. Offer credits or grants (at tax payer expense) to subsidize tuition costs so: colleges can increase tuition at a faster rate.
3. Offer loans (subsidized by taxpayers) to students so they can "afford" to pay the increase in tuition that leaves new graduates overwhelmed with debt.