The jumping off discussion area for the rest of the Deck. All things Lakewood.
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Ryan Salo wrote: Someone mentioned before that this is sort of like the broken tail lights law.
Same as kids are required to wear helmets (and should be made to) on bikes. When is the last time you saw a policeman stop a kid not wearing a helmet?
But still, if your kid graduated high school and is 17 and is entering college in the fall, he/she has to be in by 11:00? He's old enough to drive, old enough to join the army blah blah blah, but has to be in by 11:00?
Doesn't seem reasonable somehow. I don't think it's about age. It's about parenting.
Joe Ott wrote:I don't think it's about age. It's about parenting.
Isn't that what the parental permission part is about? If you are responsible parent your kids can stay out past with a note from you. I am not sure how that will be enforced, but it does allow responsible kids to stay out later.
Same as kids are required to wear helmets (and should be made to) on bikes. When is the last time you saw a policeman stop a kid not wearing a helmet?
Mine got "pulled over" last week for wearing theirs. They were so excited.
As for the curfew law. I grew up in a city with one, no big deal. Unfortunately we do have some parents that don't care to parent, maybe this will make them keep a better eye on their kids.
Why is it important to examine the hard data, beyond observation and anecdote when we talk about increasing safety forces, but somehow, when we clamp down on kids and curfew, there was no need for the "data" to justify it?
I HAVE asked for justification for the more restrictive curfew and not one councilperson has responded.
Passing a curfew is easy; kids don't vote.
Does anyone really believe that an irresponsible parent will suddenly become concerned about where their children are just because of the curfew?
Heck, I bet 90% of parents in Lakewood have NO idea there IS a new curfew; its not like they publicized it.
I haven't seen the language of the ordinance in any local newspapers and it hasn't been submitted to any part of the online Lakewood Observer.
However, I just looked at the city's website and found it:
Pursuant to Section 509.12 of the Lakewood Codified Ordinances, children ages 14 and under are not permiteed on streets, sidewaks or any public property between the hours of 9:30 PM and 6:00 AM. Children age 15 are not permitted on streets, sidewalks or any public property between the hours of 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM. Children ages 16 and 17 are not permitted on streets sidewalks or any public property between the hours of 11:00 PM and 6:00 AM.
Children out during these restricted hours will be subject to citiation for curfew violation. Parents are also subject to be cited for allowing their children to be out during restricted times.
It doesn't mention what the citations are, whether or not there's a fine, etc.
I don't see any language regarding kids on their way home from work or from school events. I assume this means that the LPD has some discretion in how it enforces the law and I feel fairly certain that they aren't going to be rounding up every juvenile in sight during the restricted hours, particularly to the exclusion of looking at anything else.
I just spoke with one of the police Captains, he mentioned that they are using common sense about who to cite and who not to. I guess one of the kids that was "tagging" houses with spray paint was picked up on a curfew check and his mom has to go to court and pay a fine. I would assume that if a parent gets a couple of tickets they will "tighten the chain" on their kids. He said that they know about most big events and will not ticket every kid coming out of a football game
From my conversation it seems like he likes the freedom this change gives them and they will use it to help them find real criminals.
Wouldn't a kid spray painting a house or committing another act of vandalism be picked up at any time of day or night?
Seriously, the curfew law means nothing in this case. If you're up to no good, you can be detained at 3PM.
I really don't see how the curfew law affects policing. If you are committing a crime, the police can apprehend you, right? Makes no difference how old you are or what time of day. So how did the curfew law make any difference in the decision to arrest or charge the perpetrator?
When a squad car pulls someone over for not using a turn signal at 4am on Detroit Rd, it gives them the opportunity to run the plates, check for warrants, explore for driving under intoxication, even check the car for illegal items/contraban if this becomes suspected. Many times it never needs to get this far, but it gives the officer the discretionary opportunity only possile because the officer is able to pull someone over for not using a turn signal.
I suspect the curfew law is intended to serve the same purpose--to give our officers one more layer of fighting/preventing crime, by identifying youth who may have outstanding warrants, who may be in possession of drugs or weapons, or at least to identify youth who are unruly and/or lack responsible caregivers and who would then be referred to Lakewood Youth Services or possibly teh county's child welfare system. The police can at least track these kids in a database and identify repeat-offenders, get descriptions, fingerprints, etc, for future investigations as needed.
And in most cases, as in the former example, usually the officer does not cite you for the turn signal.
I have to be honest. I've been on vacation and have not read any of the recent posts...but while on vacation our daughters were making plans for the 4th of July and we realized that all their plans were potentially in violation of Lakewood's new curfew laws.
Will there be a lifting of the curfew for the Fourth of July or do we want to forever step on on the fun of being young and have our 13 year olds on some sort of leash while they try to have fun with their friends also attached to the leash of some hovering adult? Sounds like an incentive to head out of town.
Independence Day in Lakewood is a great safe time for young people to get together with their friends to enjoy the Lakewood Project and fireworks. Our relatives from Westlake come into town now that Crocker Park has co-opted that community's Fourth of July festivities.
We try to stay together as we head down to the park but there is a natural inclination for us all to break into our individual groups. I hate to think that our daughters...while breaking off to meet up with friends while planning to meet up with us later to walk home...could be potentially be hauled off as curfew violators.
Well (or ill) intentioned laws often have unintended consequences and as far as I can see, this law has many. I can't complain in that I didn't sit in on the readings, etc. but now that it's here, I think it will do more to make Lakewood a thug friendly place than not. Who will be around to counter the thugs? They are all at home because of curfew. Then thugs rule. The nice kids are off the street.
As a retired teacher, I believe that I well understand the concerns raised by both sides regarding the curfew issue.
It is a law that would seem to come into parental, cultural, and civil rights domains. Because of this, I would imagine that it will one day be quietly rescinded.
To me, that law just has too many difficulties with its implementation.
In the first place, I would only guess that some defense attorney for some late-night violator would cry "selective enforcement", using events like the 4th of July and the football games as examples.
Or they might argue- profiling.
And, in my opinion, at times, they might just be right.
A law, in order to be just, must be fairly applied to all, and must, at the last, be workable.
On the other hand, while we know that there are many good parents, I'm sure that we've all been in public situations where unsupervised young people have run wild; whether that would at a park, a shopping mall, or in some restaurant.
There are also "disturbing the peace", and "creating a public nuisance" types of laws out there now that, if applied, could address curfew violators, or social disruptors without the onus of "selective enforcement" or "profiling" issues hanging over the law.
More than football games, there are many evening youth meetings and service activities held during the week in Lakewood for Scouts, DeMolays, Church and other youth groups.
I suspect that there will always be a gentle tension between those who have to deal with disruptive young people, and those who advocate for greater freedoms.
As an educator, I can tell you from my own experience that the percentage of young people in a school building who disrupt, is generally a very small one, often measured in single digits, and often having virtually nothing to do with their style of dress, culture, background, or whatever.
It would seem that we need to take a good second look at this law.
[Nothing good can come from kids wandering around after dark, no matter who there parents are quote]
How do you define good - working to help pay your way - save for school -help your parents. How about babysitting so the single parent down the street can take a much needed breather.
How about studying with your friends to improve your grades. Coming home from the "Y" after an activity.
Why don't we just blame the kids for everything and sit smugly in our homes thinking we solved everything.
