New Curfew Law

[Mark Crnolatas]

Gary,
Over the last 20 or 25 yrs I've helped or outright did the setup of several of these groups in various areas around Greater Cleveland. It just can't be thrown together of course, but there is a way to do it successfully.
There are far too many success stories for a group like this to be ignored, by those who actually want to contribute a small amount of time and effort.
We're talking SMALL amounts. Nothing major here. But, we'll see how it all goes. I'm not betting more than a package of popsicles that it can be done here, while it IS being done all over the country.

Mark Allan Crnolatas

[Joe Ott]

I've spoken off the record with several police officers, and those with whom I've spoken, agree; by no means is there a reason for unreasonable fear around here.

I did the same not too long ago. I got a different response.

Unreasonable fear? What's unreasonable. There's section 8 housing with what appears to be maybe thugs always hanging around, convicted rapists and convicted child molesters down the street so I wont' let my 15 year old walk by herself. Is that unreasonable fear? I don't want my 15 y.o. walking around downtown lkwd because an elderly women was beat up behind a bank, and man was robbed on Detroit near Alemeda blah blah blah. The list goes on. That's unreasonable fear? Please.

It would be silly to once again rehash all the crime. This is getting rather boring. Everybody banters back and forth but never a solution. I take that back, once in a while you get drive-by posts by councilmen announcing new laws to curb crime...

You want me to stop worrying? Give me a break.

[Jim O'Bryan]

It would be silly to once again rehash all the crime. This is getting rather boring. Everybody banters back and forth but never a solution. I take that back, once in a while you get drive-by posts by councilmen announcing new laws to curb crime...

Joe

Many solutions, but few jumping in.

.

[Gary Rice]

Joe,

For there to be significant solutions, I would think there would need to be significant problems.

What's missing here. of course, are statistical abstracts supporting or refuting alleged increases or decreases in crime.

Without this data, I'm thinking that we're all believing what we want to, based on our personal bias or perceptions.

I offered a thread awhile back asking for a Lakewood think-tank for positive ideas.

It was tanked.

It only received 6 posts before meandering to the bottom-feeding world of "Observation Deck Past".

It seems that some on this 'Deck would rather stir it, than support it.

In my honest opinion, if the baloney on this 'Deck could be mined as a food source, we could feed the world....

Mark, with all due respect, do we really need cami-wearing pseudo-cops tramping on our rose beds? This is Lakewood. Have we really come to that?

[Joe Ott]

What's missing here. of course, are statistical abstracts supporting or refuting alleged increases or decreases in crime.

Baloney. Statistics can be read anyway any particular politician wants them to be read. I don't put a lot of faith into statistics nor the politician telling me when they have something to gain. I do however believe what I see and what people, who I believe and trust, tell me.

You did not answer my question. What's unreasonable fear?

[Grace O'Malley]

And who am I to believe?

Two politicians tell me "Be Afraid! Crime is UP!"

The Chief of Police reportedly claims crime is down.


I may be a cynic, but I'll believe the Chief before I believe two guys who are perpetually running for office.

I DO want facts and figures on crime yet despite repeated requests, I hear nothing from the two candidates who claim crime is up.

What exactly are they looking at to make those declarations? I'm entitled to see those stats, too. They are PUBLIC records, not some secret report.

Until I see the FACTS, I'm not letting anecdotal information determine my course of action.

[dl meckes]

Gary-

Mary Louise Madigan has been encouraging block watch goups. There was a CERT (Community Emergency Response Team) picnic last night and she was one of the attendees. She and the CERT leaders are supporting the idea that when block party permits are pulled, very local CERT members visit the parties and talk with people about what the CERT program is about and also spread the word about block watches.

This is a wonderful idea for a number of reasons. Our CERT training teaches us how to handle many emergencies, but the first rule is that we need to make sure we're ok, that our families are ok, and that our close neighbors are ok before we widen our circle of care. If I go to local block parties, I'll get to talk with more neighbors. Increasing communication is valuable.

When neighbors agree to keep an eye out for each other, good things happen. We don't have to walk the streets, we don't need to wear little outfits, etc., we just need to keep our eyes open and we need to communicate with each other and with the police.

That's not going to solve every problem, but it sure goes a long way towards having the type of community we want.

[Gary Rice]

Joe,

I'm not sure of where you are coming from.

Therefore, I'm not sure how to respond.

I would like to think of myself as a solution-oriented person. I would prefer to think in terms of reasonable caution, rather than unreasonable fear, in terms of my dealings whether in Lakewood, or anywhere else.

To me, "unreasonable fear" means exactly as implied. That is, fear not based on rationality or facts.

I return to my thinking regarding statistics. I'm not considering the type of statistics that can be easily skewed. I'm thinking of purely numerical quantitative reports.

I have not seen any numbers indicating that we are having the types of increasing problems that some people seem to think are transpiring.

But as you know of course, unfortunately statistics mean a lot to the one who is the statistic.

As for most of us in Lakewood however? In order to form an opinion, I think that most people would like to know as many facts as possible first.

I admire you're believing and trusting people, Joe, but wasn't it President Ronald Reagan who said "Trust, but verify?"

DL- In the context of a community trained, and recognized group of volunteer helpers, I think that can be a good thing. Mark, have you considered becoming a part of that group?

[Rick Uldricks]

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[Joe Ott]

To me, "unreasonable fear" means exactly as implied. That is, fear not based on rationality or facts.

It's not rational for me to fear the safety of my teenage daughter or her friends? Or my teenage son? There are thugs hanging outside doubles/apartments on her way to Lkwd Park and it's not rational to fear for her safety? There are convicted child molesters around the corner and on her way to the high school, it's not rational to fear for her safety? The recent crime we've read about is not fact? Whatever. I see what I see.

Grace I will be surprised if you ever get an answer. Demro never did answer if he plans to have the entire police department outside the gates of the high school stadium to catch all the curfew breakers after football games...

[Grace O'Malley]

Unfortunately, Rick, you are confusing incivility with crime.

While no one likes foul language, droopy drawers, and your personal favorite, sloppy neighbors, those activities are not criminal activities.

I have some, shall we say, interesting neighbors myself, but I while I personally find their behavior repugnant, I don't think it reaches the level of a crime.

Let's quit confusing a general lack of manners and pride with actual crime.

[Suzanne Metelko]

Unfortunately, Rick, you are confusing incivility with crime.

While no one likes foul language, droopy drawers, and your personal favorite, sloppy neighbors, those activities are not criminal activities.

I have some, shall we say, interesting neighbors myself, but I while I personally find their behavior repugnant, I don't think it reaches the level of a crime.

Let's quit confusing a general lack of manners and pride with actual crime.

I believe that foul language is the only one that Rick mentioned that is a borderline actionable offense, but all of the other items he mentioned are - "Drug raids, attempted car jackings, FBI agents getting shot, vandalism, litter, jay walking, foul language, etc." He didn't say droopy drawers and yes, sloppy neighbors are actionable as well. These problems are way over the civility line. Marginalizing people by telling them they don't see what they see or feel what they feel is an uncivil response.

One of the qualities of Lakewood that I have most admired in my 50 + years here is our willingness to acknowledge a problem and then find a way to fix it. But we can't fix it if we don't face it.

[Grace O'Malley]

Sorry Suzanne, I do not confuse perception with reality nor do I let emotions and feelings cloud my thinking or influence my actions.

Rick and others, including Ryan Demro, continue to claim that crime is on an upswing.

The Chief of Police claims crime actually dropped.

All I'm asking is that someone tell me who is the liar?

[Suzanne Metelko]

Grace - Rick and Lori aren't imagining this; they're living it. They're not the only ones. To make this personal is not productive. I understand what Chief Malley was saying, I also understand what he wasn't saying. He can't provide us with the data you want because we don't have a data tracking system that would deliver that product. However he didn't mind talking about more officers on the road.

I'm pleased your world is sunshine and flowers. Rick and Lori's and other people in Lakewood aren't as fortunate and they would like to talk about that and possibly develop a solution. They're not complaining - they're trying to use this forum as a means of civic dialogue with a goal of developing some ideas to solve their problems. That's one of the reasons this deck exists.

[Rick Uldricks]

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