New Curfew Law

[Grace O'Malley]

What problem, Suzanne?

Do you have facts, figures, crime statistics?

Has juvenile crime increased? If so, are the offenses occurring after 11PM at night or during the day?

Is there evidence delinquent Cleveland youth are entering Lakewood after 11PM and are they committing crimes at that time?

The incident at the library on Madison did not occur after curfew hours, BTW, so don't count that one.

Youth intent on committing crime don't watch the clock, they can come here anytime. They can come visit friends in Lakewood and sell drugs or steal at 1 PM.

And guess what, we have laws already on the books that cover drugs, theft, robbery regardless of the age or the time.

So what precisely will this new curfew do besides make delinquents out of our own Lakewood kids, many of whom are perfectly normal and legitimate?

It won't lower crime because its already been proven that CURFEWS DO NOT LOWER CRIME.

[Jeff Endress]

Grace

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying because I tend to agree with you (especially with one kid affected).

The new curfew law is like the perverbial broken tail light. Not every car with a violation gets pulled over. BUT, if it's a suspicious car, which is otherwise doing nothing wrong, the police can use a broken tail light as justification to "have a look see". In the same fashion, the curfew gives the Police probable cause to inquire of any young group to see if there is a curfew violation. We can't profile. That is wrong. But we can ask a group of saggin' punks for proof of age.

Jeff

[Suzanne Metelko]

Whoa Grace - slow down a moment and let me be clearer. The problem is that Cleveland has and is going to enforce this curfew. My point was that the east end of Lakewood is already dealing with an influx of teenagers. The problem is if you can't be out in Cleveland, how about going to Lakewood? My question is - how would you solve that problem of Cleveland's policy? I don't pretend that this law is a good law but Cleveland passed it and Lakewood has to deal with the results. I'm not advocating for the Cleveland's policy just trying to anticipate the unintended consequences for Lakewood.

[Kenneth Warren]

Tonight during a LO YO Roll (Lakewood Observer Youth Observation Drive), Dan Slife made a salient comment, “The Lakewood Police are the default daddies.â€Â

[Jim O'Bryan]

My point was that the east end of Lakewood is already dealing with an influx of teenagers.

Suzanne

I have to side with Grace on this one. I have seen no increase in kids on Lakewood's Eastside. I have seen the influx at Burger King, Phoenix, in the parks etc. I have seen no influx on the "eastside." The east side has other problems.

How many of these kids would have been playing basketball? Had council demanded the hoops be reinstalled, instead of house arrest?

If we are to begin reacting to Cleveland's laws and plans then you are no longer talking of managing decline you are talking about a rush to the bottom. I am not convinced Curfew decreases crime, and most studies would point out there is no impact. Common sense would tell us it will increase crime, as you have just added more laws to the books.

Last night as I climbed out of our dark blue Chevy Malibu "Emerald Canyon Crisis Intervention" Patrol car. I listened to the police scanner. MOST if not all calls were domestic, and curfew violation. It would seem that we have once again added to the police department's work load with no increase in patrol numbers.

Another interesting thing which to track. Lakewoodites no longer talk with each other. Loud music, do not ask to turn it down, call the police. Car parked wrong, do not ask for it to be moved, call the police. Loud party, do not join the party or talk with those throwing it, call the police. Kids playing in the street at 4 in the afternoon, call the police. Is it possible that the nuisance law, has turned Lakewood into a city of intolerance and non-talking neighbors?

I must have heard on the radio twenty times last night. "We advised them to not talk to each other tonight." Are we losing the things that made Lakewood a great place to live?


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[Gary Rice]

Talk about police as being used as substitute mommies and daddies....

That reminds me of a few years ago, when a local Scout troop had an inordinate number of musicians and so, invited me to a private home on a nice Lakewood side street, in order to work with them on their music merit badges. There were maybe 10 Scouts in uniform present, myself; also in uniform, and of course, the parent/owner of the home- all present. This transpired in the early afternoon.

As I was hearing each Scout's solo in the living room, the others waited patiently on the porch; either getting in tune, or warming up with their instruments.

Before long, a patrol car came by and the officer knocked on the door, with a chagrined and apologetic look on his face. He said he was responding to a call about a disturbance.

I practically begged him to arrest me. I thought it would make a wonderful news story.

After a gentle "warning", he quickly retreated to his car, and we were left to finish our badges in peace.

On the one hand, there are times that it's probably better to involve the police with a complaint, particularly if there would be a safety concern involved. All too often, in my opinion, people seem to go to one extreme or the other. Either they'll ignore serious crimes by not wanting to get involved, or they call the law only when they feel it to be an issue that won't hurt them later- like perhaps, complaining about a neighbor's too-tall hedge, or spreading tree branches.

Ah life in the big city.....if we each could only have 10 acres...

[sharon kinsella]

Okay - now my two cents.

1. Our children are not all criminals - just kids.

2. Someone said that there were plenty of other activities for the kids to get involved in that doesn't include shooting hoops and that would be ........?

3. Are we really worried about overflow because of Cleveland enforcing curfew laws? This is Cleveland your talking about - response time in Cleveland is how many hours!

4. Where is our free rec center that would have other things that the kids could be involved in? There is not a Cudell around here that I can find!

Just my two cents!

[Jim O'Bryan]

Okay - now my two cents.

1. Our children are not all criminals - just kids.

2. Someone said that there were plenty of other activities for the kids to get involved in that doesn't include shooting hoops and that would be ........?

3. Are we really worried about overflow because of Cleveland enforcing curfew laws? This is Cleveland your talking about - response time in Cleveland is how many hours!

4. Where is our free rec center that would have other things that the kids could be involved in? There is not a Cudell around here that I can find!

Just my two cents!

Sharon

Agreed!

Maybe we could turn McKinley Elementry School into the City Rec Center. Already has a gym, other rooms could be used for a variety of items, room for a baseball diamond, pool, playground already there.

It would be perfect. With the city talking of $20,000,000 or giving more to the Beck, why not give it to the residents.

McKinley Rec Center.

Good idea Sharon.


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[sharon kinsella]

Jim -

Sounds like a plan! I would be willing to help in the inception and possibly carry through - because of health reasons I cannot do the organizing for this - but I would do everything I could!!!!!

[Mark Crnolatas]

A few comments:

First, I agree with Chef Jeff, the curfew law is a "tool", so the police can, if needed, look into the reason a group or individual might be at some location that leads the police to be curious as to why.

Will it reduce crime? That I can't answer, but apparently the statistics say it won't.

Can we profile? This would also explain a post I made a month or two, but made it with a hour or two of sleep so I neglected to go into details.

If a police officer would see, for example a late model Buick with 3 women all appearing over the age of 60-70ish, well dressed, parked behind Drug Mart, my mother-in-law being an example, they might give a priority of attention, not any less mind you, but a priority of attention to a 10-20 year old car with oversized rims, with 6 guys dressed ala gangstas, with gangsta rap audible.

Can we call the above "profiling"?

BTW, I have nothing against rap in general nor clothing worn, nor the custom car, as long as laws are not being broken.

Last question: Does the LO really have a chevy malibu citizen patrol car?
(If I missed something, maybe I need to get out among adults more often)

Mark Allan Crnolatas

[Jim O'Bryan]

Last question: Does the LO really have a chevy malibu citizen patrol car?
(If I missed something, maybe I need to get out among adults more often)

Mark Allan Crnolatas

Yes, along with a Subaru, Saturn, and Mini. There is some talk of a limo, as the request to Observe and field trip has gone through the roof.


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[Beajay Michaud]

A rec center I like the sound of that. Other cities have them. Lakewood residents pay higher taxes than those in other cities with rec centers.

I would be willing to help get something like this going. We have thought about moving from Lakewood many times. This is our home and our city, moving is not the answer. Doing something is.

[Joe Ott]

I don't understand all the fuss about basketball hoops. Just because there are no hoops, all of lkwd kids are doomed to violence, drugs, and the thug underground?

To a lot of people basketball makes a lot of noise and is a nuisance the same as playing cornhole.

I'm surprised we haven't seen a PD article "LAKEWOOD KIDS DOOMED - NO HOOPS!". Tongue-in-cheek. Don't get in an uproar...

[dl meckes]

Rec centers are big money losers. I would like to look in other directions for play opportunities.

[Stephanie Toole]

[quote="Joe Ott"]I don't understand all the fuss about basketball hoops. Just because there are no hoops, all of lkwd kids are doomed to violence, drugs, and the thug underground?

No, but they'd sure like a court nearby to play on, instead of having to drive(for those old enough) to near by cities at $3.00 a gallon for gas!

(quote= 'Joe Ott')"To a lot of people basketball makes a lot of noise and is a nuisance the same as playing cornhole."

To this comment I'd have to just say...wouldn't it be nice if they ran CROSS COUNTRY instead! Those kids quietly do their runs at 7:30am Mon.-Fri. No cans of spray paint, no drug deals, no fights....but I have to admit, if my son Jay could run with a basketball, he would!

GO RANGERS!!