Bryan Schwegler wrote:They both should be. Only busting the parent doesn't teach the kid accountability for their actions.
True. But the parent should teach it at home too... it being right from wrong.
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Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Joe Ott
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David Lay
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Joe Ott wrote:True. But the parent should teach it at home too... it being right from wrong.
Yes, but thanks to latch-key programs, both parents working, etc etc, that's not happening much these days.
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Justine Cooper
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What happens, do the kids get a warning or a ticket the first time? Maybe this will ultimately keep kids safer then from whatever else lurks at night. At least I don't have to fight with my teen now about his curfew! Yes I will take the easy way out and defer to the law now, which is still later than I want him out walking around!
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
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Mark Crnolatas
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..
I've been unavailable for a few days and whole Deck is different.
Count me in on helping out in some way.
Mark C.
Count me in on helping out in some way.
Mark C.
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Justine Cooper
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Mark,
I had the same reaction what I came back after several days. All of a sudden I am reading about more crime and gangs and people who live in the city writing about prejudice and condemnation against a tenth of the population the gay population. What happened?
I had the same reaction what I came back after several days. All of a sudden I am reading about more crime and gangs and people who live in the city writing about prejudice and condemnation against a tenth of the population the gay population. What happened?
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
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Jim O'Bryan
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Mark, Justine
Please go back and reread.
We have found no proof of any gang activity that would be any worse than the Roman Fountain Gang in the 60s.
There is not attack on gays, just a courageous discussion between people that have very different beliefs. In the end it will strengthen the city.
A city that can openly talk about lifestyle, crime, police, elections, ideas is a very strong and healthy city. Now we just have to motivate the change.
.
Please go back and reread.
We have found no proof of any gang activity that would be any worse than the Roman Fountain Gang in the 60s.
There is not attack on gays, just a courageous discussion between people that have very different beliefs. In the end it will strengthen the city.
A city that can openly talk about lifestyle, crime, police, elections, ideas is a very strong and healthy city. Now we just have to motivate the change.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Justine Cooper
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- Location: Lakewood
Jim,
The difference between the gang of the 60's is that they can settle it with football. Ever hear of that happening now? Going into a public library to assault a teen?? Switching cars on my street where my children play?? Ever hear of random gun shots killing innocent children? Wrong thread but it needs to be stopped before it starts. I am becoming more a realist than an idealist today.
As far as the other thread, yes it could only happen in Lakewood, the intelligent dialogue of some, but it gets so old to hear what I hear at hate, no matter who sugar coats it. With so many real causes in the world I am worn out and tired of any attack on the gay community, who actually have less crime and better looking houses for the record. And if I had a choice to sit and socialize with a room full of the gay community or a room full of people quoting their interpretation of the bible to call really good people sinners, well I will bring an appetizer to the first, and would rather go through natural childbirth again than sit in a room full of the latter. To me it is not about "beliefs" because how dare anyone turn hate into a belief. I know, wrong thread. But while some are really trying to keep Lakewood safe and better, some still try to bring it down with their "beliefs". If you don't like the city, help improve it or leave.
The difference between the gang of the 60's is that they can settle it with football. Ever hear of that happening now? Going into a public library to assault a teen?? Switching cars on my street where my children play?? Ever hear of random gun shots killing innocent children? Wrong thread but it needs to be stopped before it starts. I am becoming more a realist than an idealist today.
As far as the other thread, yes it could only happen in Lakewood, the intelligent dialogue of some, but it gets so old to hear what I hear at hate, no matter who sugar coats it. With so many real causes in the world I am worn out and tired of any attack on the gay community, who actually have less crime and better looking houses for the record. And if I had a choice to sit and socialize with a room full of the gay community or a room full of people quoting their interpretation of the bible to call really good people sinners, well I will bring an appetizer to the first, and would rather go through natural childbirth again than sit in a room full of the latter. To me it is not about "beliefs" because how dare anyone turn hate into a belief. I know, wrong thread. But while some are really trying to keep Lakewood safe and better, some still try to bring it down with their "beliefs". If you don't like the city, help improve it or leave.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
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Jim O'Bryan
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Justine
No weapons were found. The police were there in seconds. The community supported all efforts and the reason for this was simple enough. Please note I said "football and accepted violence." Teeth, blood and skin were left on the field that day.
I come from a unique perspective on this talk thing. I would rather know the person I am talking to than not. Let the city declare their beliefs, then I can more easily pick the crowd we all move in.
This is a city, and to think we all will ever think the same way. I know Ryan and Ryan, I like them both, even not agreeing on this topic. I see the value in both living in Lakewood, I see the value of this discussion. Last year at the 4th of July parade a mameber of this board wanted desperately to meet Ryan Salo and give them a piece of their mind. I offered to do the introduction, they said no. Later I saw her taking with Ryan over by the Kiwanis tent. I walked up said hello and listened to a great conversation of Lakewood go forward. As I turned to leave with the woman I asked how she liked Ryan Salo, her answer, "That was Ryan Salo!"
Frustrating, sometimes, I am just glad that we are all adult enought to talk and trust this process.
.
No weapons were found. The police were there in seconds. The community supported all efforts and the reason for this was simple enough. Please note I said "football and accepted violence." Teeth, blood and skin were left on the field that day.
I come from a unique perspective on this talk thing. I would rather know the person I am talking to than not. Let the city declare their beliefs, then I can more easily pick the crowd we all move in.
This is a city, and to think we all will ever think the same way. I know Ryan and Ryan, I like them both, even not agreeing on this topic. I see the value in both living in Lakewood, I see the value of this discussion. Last year at the 4th of July parade a mameber of this board wanted desperately to meet Ryan Salo and give them a piece of their mind. I offered to do the introduction, they said no. Later I saw her taking with Ryan over by the Kiwanis tent. I walked up said hello and listened to a great conversation of Lakewood go forward. As I turned to leave with the woman I asked how she liked Ryan Salo, her answer, "That was Ryan Salo!"
Frustrating, sometimes, I am just glad that we are all adult enought to talk and trust this process.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Joe Ott
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:59 am
- Location: Lakewood
Justine Cooper wrote:Jim,
The difference between the gang of the 60's is that they can settle it with football. Ever hear of that happening now? Going into a public library to assault a teen?? Switching cars on my street where my children play?? Ever hear of random gun shots killing innocent children? Wrong thread but it needs to be stopped before it starts. I am becoming more a realist than an idealist today.
Fantastic! Another realist!
This is great news. We can turn things around.
Comparing the hoodlums of the 60's with the thugs of today is not very accurate. Today, that thug is more apt to have a gun and have already decided he has no chance in life and has nothing to lose...
Besides, the library incident, from how I understand it from your reports Jim was well organized and planned out. Not just greasers out to have a fist fight to even the score - not that that is any better. I don't think the punks of the 60's are analogous to the thugs of today.
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Justine Cooper
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Joe,
I still have some idealism in me but do notice I said realist and not Republican!
I agree with you though, although I don't think there is any acceptable violence except self-defense, attacks now come with weapons that kill instead of fists, and socio-path minds that come from attachment disorder and neglect. Schools and police are where to put our money, but if we are asked to be the highest taxed city in the county, we should demand the best for the money, Lakewood cops living in Lakewood and some higher education. And yes a dispatcher that is not rude when you are calling in a community watch incident!
I still have some idealism in me but do notice I said realist and not Republican!
I agree with you though, although I don't think there is any acceptable violence except self-defense, attacks now come with weapons that kill instead of fists, and socio-path minds that come from attachment disorder and neglect. Schools and police are where to put our money, but if we are asked to be the highest taxed city in the county, we should demand the best for the money, Lakewood cops living in Lakewood and some higher education. And yes a dispatcher that is not rude when you are calling in a community watch incident!"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
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Jim O'Bryan
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Joe Ott wrote:Comparing the hoodlums of the 60's with the thugs of today is not very accurate. Today, that thug is more apt to have a gun and have already decided he has no chance in life and has nothing to lose...
Besides, the library incident, from how I understand it from your reports Jim was well organized and planned out. Not just greasers out to have a fist fight to even the score - not that that is any better. I don't think the punks of the 60's are analogous to the thugs of today.
Joe
You are wrong. The gnags in Lakewood right now are ntohing more than groups of kids. 1971, boy caught with automatic weapon at Lakewood High, member of gang on Detroit. In a sperate incident a student takes out contract on another student, student picks up $20 contract and smashes kid's head with baseball bat. One section of Lakewood High in 1968-1972 where a student could buy Heroin all day long. Student rides motorcycle through hallways. Group of kids repeatedly set shop class on fire. Webb Gang, jopins with Roman Fountain and Midnight Market Gang to battle outsiders at Kaufmann Park. So many kids gathering the police were well aware and stopped the fight.
We are not battling the Crips, yet.
To me if we are bailing a sinking boat as some claim. We sturdy the sides, that is easiest, we fix the hole, and we begin to bail ourselves back to dry and safe.
The thing is, if we act now, it will be fun and interesting. If we wait 5 years, I cannot forecast the future as good as others, but I can walk the streets of East Cleveland, W65th to W117th at night and know what I do not wish to see in Lakewood.
Ken's plan is not a panic. First year, money used to upgrade equipment, hire police, second year build residency incentives hire police, third year hire police that are needed for the future. It is anything but throwing money at a problem.
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Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Joe Ott
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:59 am
- Location: Lakewood
Jim O'Bryan wrote:Joe
You are wrong. <cut>
OK.
Jim O'Bryan wrote:We are not battling the Crips, yet.
"yet" I think is key.
Jim O'Bryan wrote:To me if we are bailing a sinking boat as some claim. We sturdy the sides, <cut>
I don't like boating.
Jim O'Bryan wrote:Ken's plan is not a panic.
.
Ken's plan is the only one I've seen.
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Mark Crnolatas
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- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
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Jim,
I don't see that Lakewood has turned into a battlefield of any sort. Yet. Yes I see what everyone sees, that there are more crimes than X or XX years ago.
I have been an advocate of "preventative measures" since I first became interested in law enforcement around 1970. I know the evolution of the problems in Cleveland fairly well. It's doubtful Cleveland can ever reverse it's crime trend any more than any major city in the U.S. Once such a trend becomes established as daily fact, the police can only answer it's results call after call. Time time for prevention overall would have passed by.
My belief is do what is needed to prevent the evolution to that point.
Can it be done here? Yes I believe it can. We are not that far "gone".
Will it be done here? That is the unanswered question that yes, I agree should be discussed and hopefully, some concrete and realistic moves taken to prevent our city from becoming an upward line on the graph of crimes per capita grid, as so many major cities and inner ring suburbs have become.
Mark Allan Crnolatas
I don't see that Lakewood has turned into a battlefield of any sort. Yet. Yes I see what everyone sees, that there are more crimes than X or XX years ago.
I have been an advocate of "preventative measures" since I first became interested in law enforcement around 1970. I know the evolution of the problems in Cleveland fairly well. It's doubtful Cleveland can ever reverse it's crime trend any more than any major city in the U.S. Once such a trend becomes established as daily fact, the police can only answer it's results call after call. Time time for prevention overall would have passed by.
My belief is do what is needed to prevent the evolution to that point.
Can it be done here? Yes I believe it can. We are not that far "gone".
Will it be done here? That is the unanswered question that yes, I agree should be discussed and hopefully, some concrete and realistic moves taken to prevent our city from becoming an upward line on the graph of crimes per capita grid, as so many major cities and inner ring suburbs have become.
Mark Allan Crnolatas