What's wrong with church?

[Jeff Endress]

Pastor Rich

Now you've done it!

perhaps I could drop by for a tune or two on the banjo and musical saw for your group?

Not only will Gary take center stage, but he'll ad lib a song about doing it ....on the spot.

Jeff

[Bryan Schwegler]

Bryan,
Thanks so much for the input - it is greatly appreciated. I have heard many of these "concerns" about what church is, as opposed to what it should be. How do you think the church can overcome many of these obstacles, particularly: 1) Its lack of relevance, 2) hypocrisy, and 3)perception as boring? At the Rock of Lakewood, we have sought to reach the 30 something crowd. We have contemporary worship, activities and classes for children during the service, and seek to make the Bible relevant and practical to what people are experiencing today. Any suggestions?

Now you're asking me for the miracle answers.

I think it's impossible to demonstrate relevance to everyone or to make it "not boring" to everyone. The best thing is to choose the demographic or group you want to target and make it as relevant to their lives as possible. What's important to them? How can church or religion in general enhance their lives? The answers to those questions are likely to be vastly different between a 24 year old young professional and a 45 year old father of 3.

As for hypocrisy, that's easy. The large mega-churches in my opinion are the prime examples, don't be like them. Their disgusting focus on the "material gospel" just doesn't jive with what I read in the Bible. Last I read Christ was telling us to give up everything earthly and follow him not buy a Hummer just because God blessed you with riches. I won't even go into their ultra-conservative religious stance and exclusionary tactics, which again, at least in my opinion, is not in the spirit of Christ.

Also hypocrisy is worrying more about the needs of your church than the needs of the larger world. I'm always amazed at how so many churches will preach on the hungry, the poor, the disadvantaged, etc and never actually do anything about it. Actually go out a feed the hungry, help the homeless, actively try and make the place better. That's what younger people are looking for. Companies have recognized it which is why many popular companies are beginning to heavily focus on allowing their employees to do sponsored service work. Churches need to do the same.

[Gary Rice]

Amen Bryan,

Jeff, now you've gone and done it!

What's that they say about peoples' pasts coming back to haunt them?

I hope by now, Pastor, that you've seen at least a small part of the wonders of Lakewood. I see that you've only made a few postings, but you've already met some great Observers on line.

Now I'll tell you they won't fit into neat little molds (although a few of us may be getting a little moldy ) You'll find singles, married. Gay, Straight, Righties, Lefties, you name it...but we all seem to love Lakewood.

Be patient with us all. We are an...ummmm, eclectic bunch, to say the least.

So far, I've been able to "kumbayah" the crowd once in awhile, but just when I think they're settled down, away they go again!

Welcome to the 'Deck! (The Power of Babel, perhaps?)

Kumbayah.

[Rich VanArsdalen]

Gary,
You are correct - we will be meeting this Friday at 6:30 PM at Lakewood Park for a community picnic, weather permitting. I would love to meet with you Friday, or at another time if the picnic is canceled; and I am sure that everyone would enjoy a few numbers on the saw!

[Gary Rice]

Pastor Rich,

As my Alabama mother's family, and for that matter, my dad's Pennsylvania family probably said:

"Good Lord willin' and the creek don't rise" I'll try to hop on down there. I may even bring Dad and his fiddle along. Don't worry about feeding us though. We have dietary restrictions and will have to eat earlier.

If I, or we, can get down there for a song or two, we'll be glad to do so.

[Mark Crnolatas]

Pastor,

I think you'll find if you welcome the 50+ you'll get the 50+ and 60+ ..and older possibly, along with their contributions of not only their presence, but financial, since many of my peers have already established their financial position while the 30 somethings are currently working on that goal.

Of course that is just a generality, but I'm making a stand for those of us tired of age meaning anything more than a page on a piece of paper called a calendar.

Suggestions are simple. Show that God works. This is where so many other churches fail in my humble opinion.

I've been searching for answers for the last 30 or more years. I've read literally hundreds if not venturing into the thousands of books from every corner of religion and philosophies, looking for answers. I have attended more churches around the country for the same reasons. Answers. I have so many questions and for every answer I have 20 more questions.

I'll talk with you until you want to run away regarding the power of God or the universal truths, or the karmic law, on and on, but show me answers.
Show the 20 somethings answers. Show the frustrated people answers. The people that are totally happy and satisfied, God bless them, but the ones that appear to have the world by it's behind yet are frustrated, or confused, or have pains or feel lack, loneliness, simply show them the comfort of God. Be willing to keep an open mind and be flexible.

Example: We would like our little one baptized. We haven't decided where yet, but we would need it when and where we want it, not at a church due to some physical limitations of some who we want to be present.

This should not be too much to ask, in my opinion. Ten minutes of time.

I believe a pastor of a church's job is to guide his/her congregation to the results of God. The world seems to have become so skeptical. God makes infinite "results" but sometimes we can't see the trees because the forest is in the way. A pastor should lead us to the trees, even if it needs a verbal kick in the behind. We take so much for granted but we need to be reminded constantly, that there is a power greater than us alone, doing and providing that which is good. We have only to give that power recognition and thanks.

Something very good happened to me today, and if it wasn't from God then I imagined the entire event. If I imagined it, my family imagined it also.
It wasn't big, or front page news, but it was an answer.

Now I have 20 more questions and 20 more needs to fill, some small, some large. I'm just one of many in the same situation.

I hope you'll welcome with enthusiasm, the 50 and 60 somethings as well as the older and younger somethings, and we'll bring some answers with us too, but I guarantee we'll bring even more questions.

I have a great feeling about your intentions from your posts so far, and that feeling is good.

I play keyboard by the way, and more so, Hammond organ or synthesizer (which weighs 380lbs less ) so with us too, if all is in the right place on our end, we might drop by too and I'll bring a synthesizer and maybe between Gary, and his great dad Bob, and my little clan, we can loosen up the whole crowd.


Mark Allan Crnolatas

[Gary Rice]

Great post Mark,

I'm feeling well blessed this morning myself. I had two fairly horrific health crises this month, with one just being resolved yesterday.

So I'm feeling truly blessed.

But God's work goes on. Today I take a good friend to the doc for his serious illness, and I need to visit a funeral home for another friend's dear late Mom. Prayers need to always continue for those in need. That, and our time and service to them.

It would be great to see you Friday.

Maybe it's no accident that something good just happened to you.

It's been said before, but God does work in mysterious ways!

and now..a saying attributed to George Fox, founder of the Quakers (paraphrased)

Peter said this, Paul said that, but they are dead and gone. This is thy time, what sayest thou? All God has is thee....

[Rich VanArsdalen]

Ken, Gary, Jeff, Bryan, and Mark-
Thanks for the fantastic input! I appreciate you all taking the time to share your concerns and understanding about what is happening so often in so many churches. There does appear to be a common theme in the messages that have been posted: that the church should be called to action, and should significantly impact the lives of the individuals around it; doing what it was created to do - put the power and love of God on display! I whole-heartedly agree with this premise. We at the Rock of Lakewood, though we are a small group, would like the opportunity to help those in need. We currently take a community meal twice a month to a group here in Lakewood, but would love to do more. Do you (or others in the community) know of any groups or individuals who are going through difficult times and could use a meal or other types of assistance? I promise they won't be disappointed - my wife is killer' in the kitchen!!!

[Gary Rice]

Pastor Rich,

As a new faith community in Lakewood, I'm not certain to what extent you might be aware of the coordinated efforts of existing congregations to address some of the needs that you have outlined.

The Lakewood Christian Service Center is a wonderful and dynamic outreach center for a great many community resource activities.

Churches stagger and coordinate their community meals, so that as many can be fed as possible in our city.

Churches also rotate the use of their facilities to house the homeless for brief periods of time.

There also is a west shore ministerial association, where pastors meet and discuss matters of mutual interest.

Although some mainstream churches in our community continue to struggle, we still have a good number of wonderful faith communities in Lakewood.

You can read my perspective in a column that I wrote on the subject (I am a regular columnist for the OBSERVER) Just click HERE for my columns:

http://lakewoodobserver.com/read/opinio ... f-the-city

and scroll down to "Lakewood's Treasure Trove of Churches"

I have found Lakewood church people to be a wonderful, dynamic, cooperative group of do-ers. Welcome to the family!

[Rich VanArsdalen]

Gary,
Thanks again for all of the input. I did read the article you wrote, and found it very informative - thanks for the link! I was aware of some of the joint activities that Lakewood churches are involved in - however, being a church start up has been difficult; primarily because of a lack of facility. Nevertheless, necessity is the mother of invention, so it looks like we just need to operate a little outside of the box and put on our creative thinking caps. I love to brainstorm - especially when it comes to topics such as this. What types of activities do you think the people of Lakewood would want to participate in? I would love to get feedback from everyone interested in this topic!

[Phil Florian]

I do find it interesting that more traditional churches in the US are seeing a decline in membership. The Catholic and Lutheran churches are shrinking while the more charismatic churches, like the Church on the Rise in Westlake and other examples of mega churches in the south, are growing by leaps and bounds (any wonder why the magical 20 and 30 something groups are being sought? Ever count gray hairs at a typical Catholic church service?). It all has to do with marketing, I think. These new churches are adopting Coke and Pepsi style methods to get people into the pews. Flashy advertising, quick catch phrases, a punchy performance and out the door an into the new week. Religion becomes a consumable product that sells itself.

The deep introspection and reflection of some of the older Catholic faith (and others like it) seems to be going away for the majority of Americans (and moreso for the Europeans). I remember loving the old Catholic churches before or after mass when I was a kid. Dark, smokey interiors with flickering candlelight, my footsteps hushed on the richly carpeted floor and you could almost feel God breathing with you. It was wonderful, magical. As I returned to our newer church, somber and reflective was replaced with loud, garish stained glass, blaring guitars and flutes and an attempt at joviality that to me had nothing to do with faith and searching for deeper meanings in life.

The oldsters (like my dad) complained when Vatican II came in and changed everything and now I kind of see why. The Catholic church, and many older institutions like it, seems to have given up on their reflective heritage and now come across as the cranky old man who yells "get off my lawn!" every time you go near the place or the giggling cheerleader yelling "Go Team!" or in this case, "Go God!" as if the Divine needed such rah-rah. They have become the overprotective parents who don't trust their children to do the right thing or the shallow door-to-door salesperson who is happy enough if they make a sale every week. It became about telling us how to live our life, what THEY thought God was saying, and so on. You know, as a kid I believed with all my heart that I once saw Jesus at church wandering around at the back of the hall. Seriously. It was breathtaking for me, a mere 6 year old at the time, to think they were right...he is among us. But that sense of wonder, whimsy and mystery is beaten out of us after years of CCD and less and less reflective sermons replaced by the same sorts of threats to live the straight and narrow that we got at home. Boring. Which is why at age 16, when I could drive myself to church I found myself more and more going to what we all called St. Elsewhere (the one church with a constantly growing membership, I would think).

Today I read that 95% of America believes in God. Amazing that almost everyone agrees about something. Sort of, since there are well over a thousand separate denominations of Christians alone in this country let alone all the non-Christian faiths. So maybe we don't agree on everything. But religion throughout history has always been combative, attempting to one-up other faiths, other gods, and so on. So all we are doing is repeating what has been done since Odin and Zeus went head to head in the Heavens, trying to grasp onto their shrinking membership when this new "One God Before All Others" person entered the fray.

Maybe it is a hard sell to we 30 somethings because hey, if we already believe in God, why go every week to be reminded. Maybe to us it is like getting a letter in the mail weekly confirming that we did, indeed, buy a car in March of 2006. You know, just to remind us.

Who knows. This is why I tend to find my sprituality in places like the UU churches that are much more open to introspection and real soul searching. Their small numbers, though made up of a ton of lapsed Catholics and other Protestants sick of being "preached TO," indicate that while there are some folks out there looking for introspection, there aren't many.

Who knows. Good luck in your quest for membership! That is the wonderful thing about Lakewood...there is a church for just about anyone.

(oooh...and I went on too long...sorry!!)

Phil

[Gary Rice]

Pastor Rich:

What activities would be good?

I'm tempted to be flip and cite "faith, food, and fun"

...but that would be too simple, I think.

Before embarking upon any endeavor, especially of a spiritual nature, I would suggest first turning to prayer. From this can come insight and wisdom.

As you have been able to discern, there are many around here who have been disenchanted with traditional religious practices. In order to attract people to a faith community, you will need to show that you are sincere and accepting.

Religion can indeed, be a difficult topic- because people indeed bring their past perceptions and experiences into the mix. They also respond to different stimuli. Some are attracted by liturgy, some, by preaching, some by rules, and some, by lack, thereof.

I like the thought attributed to George Fox's Quakers:

"When all else fails, have thee considered love?"

Love's the one thing that's hard to argue with.

I would simply begin with love.

Unconditional love.

[Rich VanArsdalen]

Phil-
Thanks so much for your insight in this, as well as for sharing your personal experience. I believe that there are many who share your sentiments, being raised in a very similar fashion. I agree that the church has become very commercialized - as a pastor I am a bit torn on this fact. On one hand I feel the pressure of competing with a world that is so incredibly commercialized, how in the world could anyone feel that our little congregation has anything to offer them; yet, I hate the way many churches have adopted almost a production mentality - get 'em in, get 'em fixed, get 'em out: nickels and noses baby, nickels and noses. It was definitely not meant to be that way.