What's wrong with church?

[Rich VanArsdalen]

As a new pastor in the Lakewood area, I am curious - what do you think is wrong with church today? The Rock of Lakewood is a non-denominational church that has been around for almost two years. What are Lakewood people looking for in a church? What is the church doing wrong? I would appreciate any and all input on this topic!

[Bryan Schwegler]

As a new pastor in the Lakewood area, I am curious - what do you think is wrong with church today? The Rock of Lakewood is a non-denominational church that has been around for almost two years. What are Lakewood people looking for in a church? What is the church doing wrong? I would appreciate any and all input on this topic!

That's a very interesting question honestly and I'm sure you'll get varying answers as to what that is. In general here's a list of some of what I think you'll hear from people (and some will be contradictory):

• Religion is not relevant to life today
• Church has become too much like society, there's nothing that makes it different/special.
• Church and religion are too hypocritical
• Church is boring
• The feeling that money/offering is always expected is a negative
• Church/religion is too negative and focused on hurting people. They're not inclusive

I'm happy with my church however, but with the growing numbers of churches consolidating or closing, there is obviously a good deal of people who aren't. Hopefully some will post here to answer your question.

[Rich VanArsdalen]

Bryan,
Thanks so much for the input - it is greatly appreciated. I have heard many of these "concerns" about what church is, as opposed to what it should be. How do you think the church can overcome many of these obstacles, particularly: 1) Its lack of relevance, 2) hypocrisy, and 3)perception as boring? At the Rock of Lakewood, we have sought to reach the 30 something crowd. We have contemporary worship, activities and classes for children during the service, and seek to make the Bible relevant and practical to what people are experiencing today. Any suggestions?

[ryan costa]

people would rather watch television or go shopping or eat a Denny's Super platter. Sunday is the day people rest from watching tv, eating denny's platters, and shopping.

[Dee Martinez]

Pastor.
I guess its only fair to ask, what do you think is "right" about church?
What do you hope, in the catchword of the day, is the "takeaway" people should get on Sunday morning?

[Rich VanArsdalen]

Ryan,
Well be it far from me to knock a tasty Denny's Super Platter - I enjoyed many late nights at Denny's during my college years. Just the thought of those greasy platters brings back some fond memories! But what I am taking from your post is that people are simply uninterested in what churches are doing today. They are more pre-occupied with other things in this life rather than the things the church is doing - right?

[Rich VanArsdalen]

Dee,
I really love your question here, because all too often we do focus on the negatives rather than on the positives! I do think that churches do many wonderful things that impact the community in very positive ways. I think it is very important for churches to give back to the community and impact the lives of those in the community in tangible ways. I guess the critical nature of my question was to get some "constructive" criticism from Lakewood residents to see how we can better reach out to our community.

The Rock of Lakewood has been meeting for almost two years and really only has 30 - 40 members to show for it. I know that God is not nearly as concerned about numbers as most pastors!! However, I would love to get the input of Lakewood natives on why so many churches seem to be struggling to stay alive and impact our city. Are we going about things incorrectly?

[David Scott]

Pastor Rich -- I am in no way an expert in religious matters, but I have spent a lifetime in and out of catholic and protestant churches.

With both parents working, families today are busy - that Sunday morning is precious time and you need to compete with leisure activities and household projects. The obvious answer is to offer some leisure activities during the week as a form of outreach. Many couples would love an evening of volleyball, softball or cards - they just don't want to commit to a team because of the time commitment and the perceived skill level needed.

Interest groups focusing on electronics, history, cooking are other options. For a church to grow, don't focus just on the sermon. Activities can be family based and wholesome and still fit in the church's main focus.

Also, if you are reaching out to 30 year olds - you are also reaching out to toddlers. Forming a support group for mothers of toddlers would seem to be a need. Setting up play dates is only one side of the matter. Drawing on other's experiences a mother of an infant/toddler can get advise on feeding, food allergies, sun exposure, ect.

I have no facts to back this up - but it seems like the support structure once provided by the church and family is now being provided by self-help books and TV-psychs. Find out what they are providing, and do the same on a local level

[Rich VanArsdalen]

David,
Though you do not claim to be a religious "expert" - it certainly does seem that you have an incredible insight here! With many households being comprised of two-income families, it would make sense that the most precious commodity each family has is time together. Going to church is definitely a time commitment (especially when the pastor gets a little long-winded)!! I do think that families see the importance of quality time together and even the need for leisure/extra-curricular activities - it would make incredible sense for the church to seek to satisfy this need.

As far as the ideas concerning activities and interest groups - phenomenal input!!! One of my fears (especially in my own life) is that we as pastors can focus all of our attention on study, study, study. Not to say that study is not important, however; while we are locked away in our "ivory towers" there is a world carrying on all around us. A world that many church members, pastors included, often feel disconnected with.

This is exactly what I was looking for David - thanks so much for the input.

Does anyone else have any comments on this topic, or other ideas for reaching the community around us?

[Mark Crnolatas]

I have to ask, why do you want to appeal to only the 30 something crowd?
I have a myriad of comments and suggestions, but first I'm rather curious regarding the age "thing".

Mark Allan Crnolatas
LHS Class of '68

[Gary Rice]

Pastor Rich,

Gary Rice here.

For a long time, we've been talking about the possibility of someone being available to the Lakewood Observer folks informally for dialogue on matters spiritual.

Maybe even write a regular interdenominational and inspirational column for the paper?

Now, I'm no editor, so I don't have an official invite for you.

Just know that anyone can submit for the paper...

You may have even fallen into that role here on the 'Deck. God works, after all, in mysterious ways....

I have a good friend who did a unique little magazine for his urban Cleveland church, and the surrounding neighborhood. He included many important community assistance phone numbers, as well as some timely columns, and a description of what his church is doing. It was a GREAT periodical. It did not directly address overt conversion, because people might have been turned off. Instead, it was a great thing to post on the old 'fridge. I'd be glad to run one by your church, if you like.

In an urban world, I feel that many people still feel lonely, and shy about meeting others. Knowing that there is a caring community close by, can work wonders.

[Kenneth Warren]

I very much appreciate Pastor Rich joining the dialog of the LO community and posing lines of inquiry about spiritual life and the appeal of church practice and hope that Gary Rice's invitation to take on a spiritual beat that engage a wide field of inquiry and witness might be possible.

When the LO project was just beginning in 2005 I outlined a number of lines of inquiry for stories, the content of which remained, I believe, in the start-up editorial chambers rather than on the LO Deck for all to consider.

I will resurrect these lines of inquiry here, hoping that Pastor Rich might find some insight and traction for his engagement in a rather heavy load of context supplied to prospective civic journalists at the start-up of the LO project and still not yet realized:

1. "Left Behind: Lakewood Churches in the Era of Sprawl and Born Again Ideology"

This interdisciplinary inquiry will briefly consider economy, geography, ideology and sociology in order to assess the degree to which sprawl, Apocalyptic fever, right wing political revolt against the secularism, and the upward re-distribution of faith-based wealth is, in effect, "Left Behind" in Lakewood's churches.

a. Are shrinking "blue" Lakewood churches reacting less to economic secularism and political pluralism than expanding "red" churches in exurbia?

b. What does this suggest for the faith community left behind in Lakewood?

c. Do Lakewood's red voters travel beyond Lakewood in search of a red church compatible with their ideology and belief systems?

d. How does this transfer of support from the bricks and mortar churches of Lakewood to those in exurbia effect the very survival of these community's institutions?

e. What are the socio-economic profiles of those who travel to churches outside Lakewood?

f. Is this the first step in eventual relocation?

g. How might age, income and class play into this dynamic?

Therefore one question to be posed to Lakewood ministers will focus on aspects of the polarization around cultural values, the gap between the rich and poor, and the rise of life-style mega churches in exurbia.

Another line of inquiry will engage the perceptions of female Lakewood ministers concerning how their service fits or does not into the New Protestant Ethic as outlined by Arthur Kroker in Born Again Ideology.

Here Kroker posits that there has been a renewal of "the fateful relationship between Protestantism and capitalism," marked by Max Weber's classic The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, in contemporary American political discourse.

According to Kroker, "On the centennial of The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, the political universe is suddenly dominated by the spirit of what might be called the New Protestant Ethic as the ideological reflex of the age of networked capitalism and empire politics.

See:

http://www.ctheory.net/text_file.asp?pick=451

A final line of inquiry might be the actual place of residency of the ministers.

2. "Lakewood's Next Generation: Identity, Faith and Technology."

I would like to propose an inquiry into "Lakewood's Next Generation: Identity, Faith and Technology."

Anybody interested?

How are Lakewood's religious institutions adjusting to the changing life conditions of Generation X and Generation Y?

Scan current literature on The 30 million in U.S. who claim no religion - 'Nones'.

The following are very useful tools for obtaining a conceptual orientation to the phenomena.

American Religious Identification Survey:

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/introduction.htm

Brookings Briefing:

Faith and Youth in the iPod Era

http://www.brookings.edu/dybdocroot/com ... 050411.pdf

According to Patricia O’Connell Killen, a professor of American religious history at Pacific Lutheran University in Tacoma, Wash., and Mark Shibley, an associate professor of sociology at Southern Oregon University, there are three factors to consider: 1. Secularization, or the progressive loss of belief; 2. Demographic shifts away from religious tradition; and 3. Political reasons, such as liberals leaving the church in response to the Christian Right ascendance.

How are Lakewood's faith communities adapting to these trends - from the perspective of ministers, young, old?


As Lakewood is a Gen X & Y mecca, I would suspect that nones are a force in the city. But is this really so?

Nones have more than doubled in a decade. In terms of the spiritual marketplace only Catholics and Baptists have more members than nones.

Nones often consider themselves spiritual. Nones do not appear to participate in any organized spiritual community.

What are the rituals of nones?

Describe any personal or communal spiritual practices.

What are the effects on Lakewood's churches and faith communities?

Get some interviews with nones, believers and pastors.

How about an podcast show with "Nones" called "Stan's Nonery?" Mixing nones and believers?

Are any faith communities making any special efforts to engage nones through opening the book of nature and shifting activities to the outside?

If so go on the nature trail with the group and describe the activities.

Interview pastors about adaptation strategies.

I would be happy to serve as embedded public library researcher to assist any interpid civic reporter interested in taking on this very important story, as a feature or as a series of pieces.

I suggest a series that features Lakewood Gen X-Y - paths - personal, communal.

Include in series those with faith and nones.

Organize/map the whole spectrum of spiritual practice from Traditionalists to DIY yogics, from pagans to Muslims etc, and those who are still humming "losing my religion."

Frame the broad context in the links provided.

Do some profiles in series.

Perhaps as part of the Threshold mix.



3. Traditional Ritual and DIY Technics

The question of the conservation powers of ritual versus DIY technics is an interesting one to consider in the case of nones and access to ancestral morphic resonance.

Another question: how is one spiritual (in a communal, relational sense, with whom, with what, in what, through what) if the technics and the rituals are not connecting to ancestral morphic resonance.

Does the person imagine ancestors as inhabiting the spiritual universe of their practice?

The Brookings piece seems to focus from questions of identity. So I think identity and means to engage ancestral company on spiritual tracks is an interesting areas for inquiry.

What's the take on the spiritual background, i.e. - the company imagined in such a context?

Traditional religious practice would jack into this vibe. DIY variations would offer another story.

Here is Rupert Sheldrake:

"In general, rituals are highly conservative in nature and must be performed in the right way, which is the same way they have been performed in their past. If rituals involve language, the most important of them use sacred languages. For example, Brahmanic rituals in India use Sanskrit, a language which is no longer spoken except by Brahmins, and the Sanskrit phrases must be pronounced the correct way in order for the rituals to be effective. We find a similar practice in a Christian context. The Coptic church in Egypt dates back to ancient times when Coptic was the spoken language; so in modern Cairo, you can attend a Coptic service and the language you hear is the otherwise dead language of ancient Egypt. The survival of ancient Egyptian in the Coptic liturgy was one of the important clues that enabled the unraveling of the language of ancient Egypt with the help of the Rosette Stone. Similarly, the Russian Orthodox church uses Old Slavic, and, until recently, the Roman Catholic church used Latin. There are hundreds of such examples.

Ritual acts must be performed with the correct movements, gestures, words, and music throughout the world. The same pattern is found from one country to another as participants perform the ritual in the same way it has been performed countless times in the past. When people are asked why they do this, they frequently say that this enables them to participate with their ancestors or predecessors. So rituals have a kind of deliberate and conscious evocation of memory, right back to the first act. If morphic resonance occurs as I think it does, this conservatism of ritual would create exactly the right conditions for morphic resonance to occur between those performing the ritual now and all those who performed it previously. The ritualized commemorations and participatory relinking with the ancestors of all cultures might involve just that; it might, in fact, be literally true that these rituals enable the current participants to reconnect with their ancestors (in some sense) through morphic resonance."

Rupert Sheldrake, 'Society, spirit, and ritual', Psychological Perspectives, Fall 1987

Kenneth Warren

[Rich VanArsdalen]

I have to ask, why do you want to appeal to only the 30 something crowd?
I have a myriad of comments and suggestions, but first I'm rather curious regarding the age "thing".

Mark Allan Crnolatas
LHS Class of '68

Mark,
Thanks so much for the question, after reading it, I realized how completely one dimensional I sounded in a previous post. We at The Rock of Lakewood are certainly trying to reach people of all ages. It does seem, however, with a new church start up - "what you are is what you'll get". I do not have any formal statistics representing this "rule of thumb"; however, it has seemed to play out that way at The Rock. I am in my mid-thirties with three children, and the majority of our members are also in their late twenties to early forties with children. In Lakewood, the 25 to 35 year old residents make up one of the largest segments of the population. However, it is our desire to reach people of all ages. I would love to hear some of your comments and suggestions.

[Rich VanArsdalen]

Pastor Rich,

Gary Rice here.

For a long time, we've been talking about the possibility of someone being available to the Lakewood Observer folks informally for dialogue on matters spiritual.

Maybe even write a regular interdenominational and inspirational column for the paper?

Now, I'm no editor, so I don't have an official invite for you.

Just know that anyone can submit for the paper...

You may have even fallen into that role here on the 'Deck. God works, after all, in mysterious ways....

I have a good friend who did a unique little magazine for his urban Cleveland church, and the surrounding neighborhood. He included many important community assistance phone numbers, as well as some timely columns, and a description of what his church is doing. It was a GREAT periodical. It did not directly address overt conversion, because people might have been turned off. Instead, it was a great thing to post on the old 'fridge. I'd be glad to run one by your church, if you like.

In an urban world, I feel that many people still feel lonely, and shy about meeting others. Knowing that there is a caring community close by, can work wonders.

Gary,
I am very honored by the encouraging invitation - I would love to make myself available to anyone who is intrigued by or enjoys spiritual dialogue! I really think that you are correct in addressing our felt need to connect with each other. I am rather new to Lakewood and it has been intriguing to me to see neighbors living practically on top of each other, yet (at least on my street) never really taking the time to get to know one another. Is it fear? Is it resistance to change? Is it just the hustle and bustle of our busy lives? In any case, I do feel that people desire and need to love and be loved by others around them. I would be very interested in seeing the type of periodical your friend put together. Does he by chance have any kind of web site or way to access this publication on line?

[Gary Rice]

Pastor Rich,

I don't believe the periodical that I mentioned is online. I did, however notice that your church group is planning to picnic on Friday evening at Lakewood Park. If I have the time and the health, (I just had a rough week and a surgical dental procedure today) perhaps I could drop by for a tune or two on the banjo and musical saw for your group?

I could then get the periodical into your hands.

What do you think?

Gary