Race, Courage, and The Future of Lakewood

[Sean Wheeler]

i think that it IS appropriate to question how loud "loud" is.

No it isn't.

Just because a student calls his mother a M...F.. doesn't mean it's ok to use that language in school.

Just because a students vocabulary consists primarily of Mo Fo this and Mo Fo that doesn't mean that actually demanding proper behavior is racist.

Just because a student thinks that learning is white doesn't mean he should be given a pass.

Just because a teacher buys into white guilt nonsense doesn't mean children must waste their time learning to feel guilty.

Just because a student doesn't show up for school physically or mentally doesn't mean society has failed him.

For a dose of reality read:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... _cult.html

bill, does any of this deal with volume?

or are you making the bold argument that profanity is, in fact, profane?

and where do you see anyone in this discussion advocating for lowering standards?

and again, i've never advocated or feel the need for guilt. check my posts.

if you're going to bother responding to my posts, at least bother to respond to what i write.

as for the "reality check", thanks. i think you'd be hard pressed to find any rational person that would disagree with the idea that racism is wrong, no matter who is propogating it. and please spare the reverse-racism stuff. racism is racism, and the reverse of racism is understanding.

i think i'm done for awhile. i prefer the civility of discussion over our tendency to simply bash each other here after awhile. as soon as my schedule frees up next week, i'll make a post about where i'll be and i will be more than glad to engage in conversation at that point. i'd like to thank everyone for participating, it's been an eye opening experience and we got alot of people talking. i'll jump back in if anything gets me jumping, of course.

[lisa shaffer-gill]

This thread is timely. The Lakewood Community Relations Advisory Commission is a newly formed group of citizens appointed by council people and the mayor. The purpose of the group is to work to advance respect for diversity and to ensure equity for all groups and individuals in our city. Currently, the group is working to finalize by laws and decide on more specific projects and direction. Shortly we will be reviewing a model for community dialogs, and plan to hold community conversations. Hopefully, when specific dates and places are set many who have posted here or only followed the conversation will bring a neighbor and come out to share their experiences, fears and hopes face to face with their community.

[Grace O'Malley]

Just to throw something else into the mix, I'd like to point out some interesting facts.

Young black males without a high school diploma face an unemployment rate of about 72%.

Many posts here seem to imply that if certain minorities just stayed in school, improved their performance and graduated, that many of their problems would resolve.

Seems on the surface to be motivation enough to stay on the right track; otherwise, look forward to that 72% unemployment.

However, do any of you know what the unemployment rate is for black males, under age 25, WITH a high school diploma?

Its approximately 50%.

How do you convince young men to do the right thing when even if they do stay in school and get a diploma they face an uncertain future? So what do they get, a job at McDonalds' if they're lucky?[/b]

[ryan costa]

Just to throw something else into the mix, I'd like to point out some interesting facts.

Young black males without a high school diploma face an unemployment rate of about 72%.

Many posts here seem to imply that if certain minorities just stayed in school, improved their performance and graduated, that many of their problems would resolve.

Seems on the surface to be motivation enough to stay on the right track; otherwise, look forward to that 72% unemployment.

However, do any of you know what the unemployment rate is for black males, under age 25, WITH a high school diploma?

Its approximately 50%.

How do you convince young men to do the right thing when even if they do stay in school and get a diploma they face an uncertain future? So what do they get, a job at McDonalds' if they're lucky?[/b]

Edward Luttwak cited an interesting statistic in his book, Turbo-Capitalism: Actuaries can statistically prove young blacks in many areas of the country are better off participating in the illegal drug trade.

Then there is Ellis Cose's argument that African Americans have it better than blacks in any other part of the world.

The Black Power movement will sometimes make members feel better by claiming their ancesters had been Kings back in Africa. Their ancesters could not have all been Kings, because a King is nothing but someone with Slaves under them. The desire to be a "king" manifests in the culture of pimping and defending drug dealing territory. America was s'posed to be the place that left behind the feudal baggage of Europe. Maybe this was only accomplished in New England and Pennsylvania, but carried over and resurgent in the Southern States. That isn't really relevant though.

What does it really mean to be a high school graduate? It could mean a wide range of things. Much of the time it means doing well on a few standardized tests, which are mostly multiple choice questions. James Howard Kunstler suggests the hiearchy of modern education is mostly to delay entry into the workforce. This seems reasonable to me. In the meantime many schools become little more than holding pens for teens who lower-property-values. Failure is rampant, so new metrics are developed to guage success and show progress. The problem isn't that only 80 percent graduate, it is that they keep the other 20 percent around far longer than they should.

[David Anderson]

You present some interesting points, Grace. I hope to add to them, if I may.

Any Ohio public high school teacher will tell you that the Ohio Graduation Test is basically a 9th-10th grade exam. Thus, the resulting high school diploma standard is based on the bar being set as low as possible. High school graduation has little relevance on determining whether a student has the skills/tools needed to be successful after high school - vocational, trades, two-year college, four-year college, world of work. Additional coursework - honors and Advanced Placement courses, Post-secondary enrollment options - do have relevance. (I posed a question earlier as to whether the percentage of minority students enrolled in Lakewood High School honors and AP courses are similar to their size in the complete student body.)

Lakewood High School may have a 90+% graduation rate but big whoop. Does 100% of the student body have access to curriculum that prepares them for the lowest common denominator, a high school diploma, as well as to higher level learning that prepares them for success after high school?

Your added points are also right on, Ryan. However, I would suggest amending one statement. Our high school's aren't failing. They are doing exactly what they were designed to do - sift. Two-thirds graduate and move on to higher education with 50% of them earning a degree. The high school drop-out goes right into the workforce with the "high school and some college" folks following soon after. We've radically changed the metrics and benchmarks without radically changing the way we educate.

Seventy-five percent of Tri-C's first time applicants who graduate from Cuyahoga County high schools cannot pass the Compass exam. This determines whether the student can bypass remedial classes and enroll immediately into credit toward degree courses.

Furthermore, a high school diploma is irrelevant in today's world. A resident of Cleveland over 25 years of age with only a high school diploma can expect to earn $20,986 if they have a job. The same statistic for Northeast Ohio is $25,775, again, if they can find work.

The percentage of Cleveland residents over 25 with an Assoicate's degree or higher is 17.7. The same statistic for Cuyahoga County is 33.5% (virtually every major city/county rank better than Cleveland/Cuyahoga except for Detroit/Wayne and Milwaukee/Milwaukee).

These comparisons are important in terms of economic development and business retention, growth and attraction. However, returning to the human element, this is about kids and the fact that our nation's old high school model of "sifting" kids out and through is not good enough anymore for the nations economy or people.

Lets call public education in America what it should be: The primary civil rights issue for the 21st century. We're talking about black kids here who's parents and grandparents weren't even allowed in public schools 50 years ago. Now we've provided a system that is not fair, adequate or financed in accords with our state's constitution. Three years ago we remembered the 40th anniversary of Brown v. Board. Was there really anything to celebrate or was this simply a commemoration?

The racial achievement gap presents itself well before high school and extends well after. Unfortunately, this problem seems to manifest even more so in counties with traditionally and inherently low educational attainment. Chicken v. Egg - whichever comes first the two are inextricably linked.

Ideas do exist as to how best to move forward.

(This was originally intended to be a short two paragraph response. Sorry.)

[ryan costa]

Many high school graduates would be better off working their way into retail management or a trade than going to college.

Especially if they're women: they can do that or work their way into administrative support through a staffing agency. If they stay out of too-much-trouble long enough eventually they'll marry someone decent enough.

As a former motel night manager I can assure you it doesn't require much more than you would learn by 8th grade to learn to run a motel. The most skilled people there are the maintenance people who keep the hvac, boilers, and plumbing working.

[Jeff Endress]

An additional thought comes to mind the more I puzzle over this quandry. Why is it, if there is an institutional racial bias, that some of those in that minority are nevertheless able to function within societal norms and achieve of a measure of success? Certainly, social-economic strata plays a part, but it alone does not resolve the question.

Many of you are familiar with the story of the Lost Boys of the Sudan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_boys_of_sudan

These were children, many barely in their teens who were orphaned during the Sudanese civil war and managed to find their way into refugee camps in Ethiopia and Kenya. Under the auspices of the Red Cross about 3800 were resettled in the US. These boys, now young men, had no families, no education to speak of, no training, and had been victims of horrendous events. They are also black. Depsite all of those handicaps, by and large, they have fared quite well.

I understand that many, if not most of the Lost Boys in Cleveland have passed their GED. A number have completed or are working on their associate degrees. Most are gainfully employed and self sufficient. Two live in Lakewood. They have had the assistance of various charities, and the social support networks that are available to those in economic distress. They have come a great distance from being young herders, living in mud huts, fleeing through Africa for their lives. They have become sucesses in the US. And they are black.

So, my question is this: Are we dealing with a racial bias, or a cultural bias? Is the problem primarily a cultural bias against a culture which includes a significant racial component but extends to all races. Or is it a racial bias, impacting only members of the racial minority and not the others in the different social/economic culture? The anectdotal evidence of the Lost Boys would tend to indicate the former.

If it's an issue of culture, the race component is a gratitious inclusion. If it's an issue of race, then the culture should be irrelevant.

FWIW

Jeff

[Justine Cooper]

[quote="ryan costa"]

Especially if they're women: they can do that or work their way into administrative support through a staffing agency. If they stay out of too-much-trouble long enough eventually they'll marry someone decent enough.

Ryan,
I always enjoy your posts but were you kidding when you wrote this??? If they stay out of trouble they can marry someone decent??? Marriage has a fifty percent divorce rate. In addition, most females have to work along with the males now and never ever should we allow a female to think a man will take care of her one day! It just isn't realistic or practical. There are many jobs females and males can get without a college degree and some may even pay more, but a college degree also offers options and advancements and opportunities.

Jeff,
That was a really good insight and I look forward to the thoughts on it!!

[Justine Cooper]

The best part of Singleton's book is that it lays out a set of ground rules for these conversations. Here they are:

1. Commit to staying engaged. Nothing can happen otherwise.
2. Speak the truth as you see it. Keep it localized to your viewpoints and experiences.
3. Expect to experience discomfort.
4. Get used to non-closure. No one conversation is going to fix anything.
[/list]

If we speak our truth, someone gets mad, annoyed, etc. with the post. I apologize if I am missing something, but when you say you don't see it as both sides, I do. That is my truth. Twenty years ago I had two African American roommates. Before college, I went to high school in Parma and had one or two African American students in the whole school. So this was my first introduction to a different culture. My roommates were engaged in sports, school, and their church. We learned a little about each other's culture and a great deal of respect for each other. Since then I have had several African American friends (I know it sounds so cliche), worked with several educated, intelligent, caring African Americans, as well as observed all cultures during my years as a social worker. To my knowledge there were many taking advantage of our country's educational system.

My conclusion is that there a problem on both sides. There will always be racism I am sad to say, but I see Lakewood as being more diverse and open than any other city I have lived in. The answer to change is starting early. But let's be honest, we have services now for birth and up. We offer free pre-schools to all kids, regardless of age or income so that all have a fair start. Lakewood has the best social services I have seen in any city, from the family room that opens its doors to every age, race, culture, to the youth center that offers free counseling to all teens.

I apologize if I am missing your whole point, and maybe I am, but lately I feel much more surrounded by white women choosing not to get their education. And along the lines of Roe vs Wade, the women's movement opened up a lot of doors that we never had! So to see females CHOOSING not to vote, CHOOSING not to have an education, having babies at an early age and continuing to have children (when we live in a country that offers free birth control) and then not really want to take care of them, that is the epidemic I see!

I did ask my teen if he saw racism in the high school and he said yes. So I know I am missing something and he will elaborate for me later. I apologize again if I miss the point, but that is my truth as I see it, and if you have future dialog and answers I would love to be part of it, although I don't share the intellectual perspective that many of you do.

[Shawn Juris]

So is this a lesson in what can be accomplished when excuses and explanations for poor performance are not provided?
I had a saying for a while that I found to be a good motivational tool and it helped to make me and those I worked with more productive. No excuses, No explanations, just solutions. Reasoning is a wonderful skill until we use it to justify shortcomings. When I express concern about open forums and community discussions on topics like this, that is what I fear. Endorsing that it's okay to do poorly and encouraging complacency. Somewhere in this post was a mention that the achievement gap closed during the 80's. Wonder if there was a correlation with Nike running the "Just Do It" campaign. Wonder as well how much the A.D.D. crutch has set back progress in the classroom.

[ryan costa]

Especially if they're women: they can do that or work their way into administrative support through a staffing agency. If they stay out of too-much-trouble long enough eventually they'll marry someone decent enough.

Ryan,
I always enjoy your posts but were you kidding when you wrote this??? If they stay out of trouble they can marry someone decent??? Marriage has a fifty percent divorce rate. In addition, most females have to work along with the males now and never ever should we allow a female to think a man will take care of her one day! It just isn't realistic or practical. There are many jobs females and males can get without a college degree and some may even pay more, but a college degree also offers options and advancements and opportunities.

Jeff,
That was a really good insight and I look forward to the thoughts on it!!

I am obviously speaking of the 50 or 60 percent who end up without college degrees or with college degrees and a job that doesn't require a college degree. Assuming most of them will end up with children eventually, it is better they plan ahead for this and not accumulate college debt or destructive dating habits.

The downward pressures of modern economic life mean the 20 or 30 or 40 grand they would end up earning at work would nearly all end up going to daycare expenses, a more expensive house or apartment, extra TVs and electronics and toys, and an additional automobile and its expenses. In this instance they would be better off staying at home and teaching their kids to not be tv addicted thuggish retards. When the kids are old enough to leave at home alone(5 or 6 or 7) it is ok to go back out to the workplace. It works in Japan, and it worked in America for a while too. Of course it won't work if the mother spends her time at home watching tv, chainsmoking, and having stupid conversations on the cell phone.

Having a great increase in the number of women, or people in general, with college degrees won't generate a fraction of as many new jobs. It may even drag the salaries of such jobs down. But most of the excess graduates will end up doing the same jobs they would have ended up in without degrees and college finance debt.

The divorce rate is high for a number of reasons. Maybe it is coming down because the marriage rate is declining. I believe it is also falling because so many chicks get tattoos: When they near 30 the tattoos don't look cool anymore, so they know they have lower chances of finding someone they want after the divorce.

I was almost mugged or murdered today on Detroit. A black male youth tried to lure me behind a Cleveland Library on Detroit. First he told me someone behind the library needed help. I questioned him further. He said it was a library worker. I suggested we go into the library and confirm this. He told me he was banned from the library. Then he started asking me if one of the bikes behind me was mine. I admitted one of them was. He wasn't sure which. Then he asked me how much I paid for it. He told me he could sell me a better bike for 10 dollars. He said If I gave him my bike he would go and get it. I declined. I stood there until he walked away. Then i walked away.

[Gary Rice]

Sorry Shawn,

I believe you wrote:

"Wonder as well how much the A.D.D. crutch has set back progress in the classroom."

Attention Deficit Disorder is a very real condition. Throughout my teaching career as a Special Education teacher, some of my most difficult moments involved convincing regular classroom teachers that some students' problems were in fact, real.

Special needs students in wheelchairs, or with speech or hearing impediments as I had, are easy to identify. Those having "hidden" difficulties that were not so easy to discern often suffered all the more, due to perceptions sometimes, that they were "using a crutch".

Remember that any special needs identification is a result of a multi-factored assessment, and no one single variable. Individualized Educational Plans are devised for each particular need, as no one size fits all.

These plans are reviewed often to be sure that needs are being met, and academic concerns. addressed. If other problems arise of a behavioral nature, there is always the opportunity to modify the academic setting for that student.

I'm glad you made your post. It speaks to a significant concern among Special Educators. These conditions are all too real.

[David Anderson]

Shawn -

Unfortunately the Annenberg Challenge study which stated that "the achievement gap in reading narrowed substantially between 1971 and 1988, but the gap widened again and has yet to rebound" failed to reference any anecdotal or empirical evidence as to the cause.

The report went on to say, "The success in reducing the gap reflects the improvement in performance by African American 17-year-olds in the 1970's and 1980's; white performance remained virtually stable during that period. African Americans' performance on the NAEP reading tests declined between 1988 and 1992 and has since leveled off, although at scores significantly higher than 1971 levels."

What's at stake regarding the need to arrest and reverse the racial achievement gap? Well, I believe public schools must be the education choice of all - driving learning and the economy. If not, those with the fewest choices (economic, social, other) will be the only ones left in systems that are further depleted/failing rendering these folks with no ability participate in any economy.

Is it race or income or another factor(s)? Yes, it's all of these.

Again, programs/ideas developed by other communities have had impact on these important issues.

[Shawn Juris]

Gary
I am curious of your perspective. As a Special needs teacher have you seen an increase in diagnosis of learning disabilities over the years? In the time since I graduated, I have been amazed at how Doctors admit that it is over diagnosed. I spent time right out of college working with many of these kids that were diagnosed with one disorder or another and honestly I left because I wasn't buying the myth of mental illness. Sure, there are serious problems but they get diluted by the overuse to explain away behavior problems that should simply recieve a natural consequence that would eventually curb it from happening again. Instead we label it so we can understand it and give permission for it to continue. From a historical perspective, what happened to all these kids that were not diagnosed with some learning disability? My guess is the same thing that happened to all of us that grew up without wearing helmets and drank from the hose and ate and slept in contraptions made of wood and metal that could snap a mouse in half. We learned to live with it and watch out for spring loaded things that would hurt us. Admittedly, I am not familiar with special education curriculum. If it's comparable to teaching someone who has dyslexia how to learn differently than their peers, bravo. I'm all for teachers finding ways to reach their students as individuals. Otherwise, aren't they just being set up to fail when their employers don't care that they can't learn as fast as their peers?

But since that's the way it is, from the angle of creating the most "successes" (meaning above average grades), shouldn't we see a grades improve as we lower the expectations of how much a student should be able to absorb? Is that what's happening or are students just "playing to the level of their competition"? Again, if students were scoring an average of say 70% and we then put them into categories that better suit them shouldn't they be scoring higher? If the bright kids aren't bored because they're in an AP course and the average kids have the attention on them rather then the other ends of the spectrum and learning disabled are in their own classrooms moving at their own pace, then we should get nothing but A's and B's.

[Gary Rice]

Hi Shawn,

Good post. As I wrote, special education diagnosis is chaired by a psychologist and subject to a multi-factored assessment. A mistaken diagnosis would be rare because as with any mistaken diagnosis, that can run into big trouble.

We are learning more about the mind all the time, and that's a good thing. The perceptions of special needs are constantly changing. I guess that best case scenarios work with the best of intentions. Do some special needs students fail to take advantage of help? Well, that might be said of any group of students. Do some try and take advantage of situations? Again, the answer is as above.

I would hope that teachers and staff generally try to do the best we can under changing parameters and yes, politics. The thing that really counts is to always work in the best interest of the child.

The trick is not to make things easier for students, but to assure that their education is appropriate to their circumstances.

Hope this helps!