Imus as racist

[Jeff Endress]

By now we're all familiar with the unbelievable remarks made by Imus regarding the Rutgers female basketball team. I don't intend to defend the idiot, as his actions are indefensible. But, what this brings to mind is an incomprehensible double standard.

Without question, the words and opinion expressed by Imus are reprehensible. He is properly castigated for them. But, given that, why is it acceptable for various Rap "artists" to use essentially the same expressions without any outcry? Why is it acceptable for a person of color to use the "N word" as a term of endearment between friends? Is a comment made offensive based upon the race of the the person making it?

Where is the public outcry from Jackson or Sharpton about equally (or even greater) offensive remarks being broadcast on rap station daily? Help me out here, I'm confused.

Jeff

[Bill Call]

Where is the public outcry from Jackson or Sharpton about equally (or even greater) offensive remarks being broadcast on rap station daily? Help me out here, I'm confused.

Jeff

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are racist race hustlers. The thing I find most offensive about this is not what Imus said but that these to race baiters are given a platform and a free pass.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Where is the public outcry from Jackson or Sharpton about equally (or even greater) offensive remarks being broadcast on rap station daily? Help me out here, I'm confused.

Jeff

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are racist race hustlers. The thing I find most offensive about this is not what Imus said but that these to race baiters are given a platform and a free pass.

Bill

As a tall blue eyed white male, I find it hard to put myself in the shoes of the women at Rutgers or around the country.

Watching the conference yesterday, the coach had some very good points. The most important was take race out of it and ask. Would any parent be happy with their daughters being called ho's the day after they accomplished highlights in their life. Even without that day.

One of the player spoke of how Easter should have been them laughing and talking about their accomplishments, instead it was relatives asking about them being called "Nappy headed ho's" It is easy to see that Imus took their best day and has turned it into a nightmare.

That said, I am a huge Imus fan and he dishes it out to everyone. White, black, Asian, christian, Jew, agnostic, fat, thin, rich poor. He is an equal opportunity insensitive bastard. But if you can relax, and understand that it is good to laugh at oneself throughout the day it is funny.

At the same time I have never been able to listen to Howard Stern. I have never understood it. But it wold seem millions do.

Maybe Imus should head to satellite and late night TV.

My heart goes out to Rutgers and women athletes everywhere, but I have watched the "New" Imus show, the PC show, and it is pitiful.

At what point do we understand, what free speech is. That true free speech, helps us in day to day life. That it is far better to know the racist, than not know them. I do not believe Imus is a racist.

The Observation Deck would be a perfect example. We are all framed by our words and thoughts. It seems the best way.

Bill, if you are not outraged by what Don said!

Let free market determine Imus' future, and the women of the Rutgers Basketball team.

FWIW

[ryan costa]

The coarser hip hop and culture is so prevalent it can't help but be overheard by people even as old as Imus. He probably just got carried away pantomiming the crap kids listen to and the way they talk to each other. Pantomiming it in some clever ironical way.

In the meantime, suburban parents will continue buying their kids merchandise endorsed by low lifes with recording contracts.

[Grace O'Malley]

The Rutgers coach was the epitome of class; her speech was thoughtful and well-spoken. I wish everyone had a chance to hear it.

It clearly put into perspective why the remark was hateful and offensive. It diminished and belittled the accomplishments of these hard working young women, none of whom are deserving of being called "hos."

I'd like to know how ANYONE can rationalize calling accomplished young college women these names and claim it is "in jest." If that's your idea of a funny, I feel sorry for you. Who is really low class here?

[Brian Pedaci]

To Imus' credit, he acknowledged that the 'joke' was, in fact, patently unfunny. He's been a curmudgeon and, as Jim notes, an 'insensitive bastard' as long as I can remember hearing him.

This is just an illustration of the devastating results when a guy who's almost 70 tries to be hip.

[dl meckes]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/colu ... i-news-col

Finger-pointing and name-calling for all.

[Gary Rice]

Without a doubt, outrageous or controversial stuff sells well, and garners free publicity. We were aware of that in the music business 40 years ago, and the same is true today.

Outrageous or controversial can be constructive or even fun, as with my putting that picture of the family toilet in my column.

It can also foster social change, as the Vietnam war draft protests attempted to do.

Where it can become destructive is when people are hurt. You know the old saying "Your right to swing your fist stops at my nose"

In spite of some (in my opinion) very disturbing remarks disparaging those who are fighting racism, from a few people on this 'Deck, racist feelings and remarks still hurt people.

I fact, I believe that here in Lakewood, it is illegal to spew racist, homophobic, or otherwise damaging and potentially verbally abusive and violent language, isn't it?

As to Jeff's question leading this thread off, I would simply suggest:

No, it is never right to use this language.

Among the same culture or race, the damage may be less, but it still perpetuates low self-esteem and verbal violence, at least in my opinion.

Again, regarding the team mascot and logo issue, some have felt that objections to these were "contrived" rather than real.

Not true. I for one, am deeply offended, and feel that any outside group that uses an image of a race of people, does so unjustly.

That may be only my opinion, but I am not alone.

Remember the 1960's? (Those of you able to do so?) There was a time that we young people thought that we might really bring our world together.

These days? It is so sad.....

[ryan costa]

I was under the impression the 60s were full of Riots in America and millions of southeast asians dying. There were even Riots in Quadrophenia.

Are the players very offended? Do they know they are supposed to be very offended?

I watched the Rutgers' coach give her speech on the local news. It was a very moving speech. I couldn't tell if the coach was white or black, but she seemed to be elliptically criticizing contemporary 'urban' American culture more than she was criticizing Don Imus.

After Word War II a large wave of Appalachians and rural southernors moved North and West for jobs in the factories. And yet the most popular sitcoms in the 60s were The Beverly Hillbillies and The Andy Griffith Show. Both shows frequently drew laughs displaying characters of very poor socio-economic background in a very stereotypical light. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with todays patterns, but it seemed worth mentioning.

[Charyn Compeau]

Jeff:

There are a lot of minority leaders that DO speak out about the use of racial slurs, and degrading speech so I dont think that it is fair to say that it is 'acceptable'.

Does it sell?

Yes. So its not likely to stop anytime soon unless a recoding labels come under enough pressure to force a change in the pipeline.

But.... I dont think that the reason why Imus was held to the fire was because of a specific word or phrase, but because he was speaking in a derogatory fashion using racial stereotypes.

A rap artist talking about his 'niggahs' is not talking about them in a derogatory fashion using racial slurs. This line is drawn all the time in urban centers and it is not only the black youth that toss racially charged words around - white youth, Puerto Rican youth, Asian youth, etc., etc. - they all do.

Namely to push back against the discrimination they feel in their every day life.

I think it is important to note that these are not issues that we can encapsulate in a couple pithy sayings, or a couple overgeneralized observations. The issues of race....

no

Make that: The issues of diversity (race, color, nation origin, sexual preference, disability, age, and gender) are complex and require truly open minds that are willing to really get into the mindset of another class or culture to better understand the true causes and effects of discrimination and racism.

Just my unsolicited two cents for today.

Charyn

[Charyn Compeau]

Gary,

Dont be sad.

Slow progress is not the same as no progress.

Celebrate and reinforce the success and they will inspire more of the same.

Always,
Charyn

[Jim O'Bryan]

A rap artist talking about his 'niggahs' is not talking about them in a derogatory fashion using racial slurs. This line is drawn all the time in urban centers and it is not only the black youth that toss racially charged words around - white youth, Puerto Rican youth, Asian youth, etc., etc. - they all do.

Charyn

Charyn

I beg to differ and so would many of the black cmics today including Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock. Both have said more than one time "I am not talking about black people, not n*******" Which would seem to underline that it is often a derogatory word even for our brothers and sisters of colors.

In the end, children must be taught not to use it and to pay attention to those that do, and move on with their lives.


FWIW

[Charyn Compeau]

Jim,

I didnt say it was acceptable so I dont know what you are disagreeing with.

I am simply citing a case of what happens and why there is not the same outcry against these youth as there is against Imus or any other celeb.

In my first paragraph I pointed out quite specifically that there are many black leaders that believe that it is unacceptable.

There are a lot of minority leaders that DO speak out about the use of racial slurs, and degrading speech so I dont think that it is fair to say that it is 'acceptable'.

I hope this clarifies any confusion you might have had regarding my opinion.

Charyn

[Jim O'Bryan]

Charyn

thanks for the clarification.


.

[Mark Crnolatas]

Jeff,

I often work with many black musicians, and have over the years. I started playing with black musicians when I was 14. There is not so much a double standard, as there is what is acceptable, in the context and by who is using the words at a given time.

Example:

For quite awhile a band I was in had a black drummer. He, the sax player (white) and myself were like brothers. We played well together, we had a ball doing that, and off the job we hung out and still had a ball.

We often played all black clubs, since we were able to play the appropriate material for what was called for in those clubs.

Paul, the drummer often called his buds, and they would ask him "Hey nigger, whats up". I never called him that, and as I said we were like brothers for years. The sax player and I knew it wasn't our place to use that term with Paul or any black guy.

I was called Whitey, or Honkey, Whitehead or Whiteboy, not by the drummer, but by members of the audience, but that was used while I was being applauded, since I played the Hammond in the way they liked, the songs they liked but I was in their words, "the only white dude that knew how to play the songs that way".
On one job, a huge jazz place in Toledo that often had "name jazz acts", the manager yelled at Paul the drummer, "hey nigger, you brough two of the baddest white-boys I ever heard with you."

To all three of us that was a great compliment.

I never took offense at being called those names since it was in context of humor and brotherhood and in a joking manner. While a few of the black guys were patting me on the back. buying drinks, being called Whiteboy meant nothing.

I suppose you could techenically call that a double standard, but on the other hand, if you consider the context, who and when and how it's used, then nigger can be offensive or endearing, depending on the who, what , when , where, and why.

Mark Allan Crnolatas