Not that we know what an Art's District is...

Bill Davis · Post by **Bill Davis** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:40 am

"What is art?"

Quote:

" 'Art' is just a HOAX perpetrated on the public by so-called 'Artists' who set themselves up on a pedestal, and by decadent, ivory-tower 'critics' who think the world owes them a living!

It's just lines on paper, folks!"

-R. Crumb, artist

Jeff Endress · Post by **Jeff Endress** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:45 am

Bill

From he who gave us "Keep on Truckin' "......

but of course, the fabulous furry freak brothers WERE art.

Jeff

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:06 pm

Bill Davis wrote:"What is art?"

Quote:

" 'Art' is just a HOAX perpetrated on the public by so-called 'Artists' who set themselves up on a pedestal, and by decadent, ivory-tower 'critics' who think the world owes them a living!

It's just lines on paper, folks!"

-R. Crumb, artist

R. Crumb, from Lakewood a true genius.

Jeff

Furry Freak Brothers were visionaries.

.

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:25 pm

art is,

holding the same title for many years, failing to supply your students the resources they need to continue their education..while maintaining a $8 a year check per teacher for classroom supplies and boasting to your neighbors about the fact that you haven't asked the tax payers for money for 6 years in your monthly newsletter.

*sigh*

art is,
stretching a penny to the length of the golden gate bridge.

*louder sigh*

you guys can complain about the loud music in bars, but you shake the hands of dirty crooks that cheat your kids out of their education, and make office secretaries buy their own printers and ink in order to do their job every day.

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:06 pm

Ivor,

I understand your frustration but I have hope that art is making a comeback in the Lakewood schools. The new building have art rooms which at least to me is a positive sign. The elementary schools have had art class for the last few years which is a lot more than many districts in this area and through out the country. Lakewood has also continued to have music programs which in many places have been gone for years. It does seem that in Lakewood the arts are very important. I know more can be done to support arts within the schools and I hope that is done.

DougHuntingdon · Post by **DougHuntingdon** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:46 pm

Maybe that alleged $2000 was for the "live" chats with the superintendent to help the school's PR? I don't know.

Ivor, how much per student do you think should be spent on education in Lakewood's public schools? Maybe Bill Call or Gary Rice knows the current per student figures off the top of their head. How much of that should go to art? Should more go to art than math? than sports? Is there anything the schools should cut? Are they wasting money on anything (besides the alleged $2000/month on Lakewood Insect)?

I'm not taking sides just trying to get your insight.

Doug

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:13 pm

We're not talking about just art.

I learned this from my math, english and government teachers.

so it's not art... the art wing gets swept under the rug completely.
we're talking senior math class. a college prep class.

The lady that runs the AP (advanced placement) testing for the high school and I were joking around today.. she said:

"yeah, so when you take your AP test and I give you the pencil to take it with you better be thankful twice"

haha

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:27 pm

DougHuntingdon wrote:Ivor, how much per student do you think should be spent on education in Lakewood's public schools? Maybe Bill Call or Gary Rice knows the current per student figures off the top of their head. How much of that should go to art? Should more go to art than math? than sports? Is there anything the schools should cut?
I'm not taking sides just trying to get your insight.

Doug

Doug

All of these are great questions.

We know money is tight with the schools right now, just as they are for the city. While I feel Ivor's pain. As a businessperson I understand the need for a good bottom line in tough times.

A couple years ago, LHS cut on of their commercial art programs and I raised a stink. I knew that that program created more success in one year than the school created in 5. It was explained about cuts and programs, and it made sense.

When I went to school I was taking photography class and we had no darkroom. That year a couple LHS students kicked ass in the Scholastic Awards for photography. The program got by. People learned.

We are seeing massive cutbacks in all programs, that everyone is feeling the pain. We will have a chance to correct this and take a step in the right direction this Spring when we vote for the school levy.

The one thing that cannot be allowed to happen is to let the students suffer, by voting no. There are mistakes have been made. Franklin is a perfect example. But there have been many more successes.

I would encourage local businesses, and civic groups to help pay for extra programs, maybe we can get some of the millions in cigarette dollars going to the Beck for arts classes and supplies. I mean now that they are here to stay.

A good question would be in the city that is ART, would it have made more sense for the city to give LHS $20,000 to teach the arts, or the Beck $20,000 to see if the Beck should be an arts district?

To get back on topic.

.

DougHuntingdon · Post by **DougHuntingdon** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:34 pm

Good points, Jim. I am not taking a side for or against more school funding--just wondering about the thoughts of others as far as the allocation and amount, especially regarding art, in this case. Except for a diehard libertarian, I don't think anyone wants to reduce the funding to zero. On the other hand, some want to increase funding for so many things across the board that it would cost an astronomical amount per student.

Perhaps we should commission a $10,000 study on whether or not to give Beck $20,000 to further study the issue? Meanwhile the starving artists still starve.

Doug

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:36 pm

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:We're not talking about just art.

I learned this from my math, english and government teachers.

so it's not art... the art wing gets swept under the rug completely.
we're talking senior math class. a college prep class.

The lady that runs the AP (advanced placement) testing for the high school and I were joking around today.. she said:

"yeah, so when you take your AP test and I give you the pencil to take it with you better be thankful twice"

haha

Ivor

You prove my point.

Tough times for all not just the arts.

I was being selfish there only caring about the Arts programs.

Steve Davis is better at explaining this than I, but these tough times are factored into the way school budgets are designed.

Blame should also be put on The state and the Federal government and it's ugly stepchild No Child Left Behind.

FWIW

.

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:46 pm

DougHuntingdon wrote:Perhaps we should commission a $10,000 study on whether or not to give Beck $20,000 to further study the issue? Meanwhile the starving artists still starve.

Doug

You do know the scam on starving artists don't you? IT is like one-hour cleaners, or FREE TRADE, nothing more than a brand name.

I'll tell you what, you spend the city's silly money either sillier or smarter, and I see about a million to make a positive change with.

As Steve Davis points out, "this is not rocket surgery." Ezra Pound

This is what is so troubling.

.

PS - Do we have any numbers yet on the millions coming to all of the Lakewood Groups that helped pass 18?

stephen davis · Post by **stephen davis** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:20 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote:What is art?

My degree is in Studio Fine Art. I have a minor in Art History and one in business. Most of my adult career has been in the graphic arts business. I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think I can answer your question.

Jeff Endress wrote:From he who gave us "Keep on Truckin' "......

R. Crumb gave us the Ã¢â‚¬Å“Keep on TruckinÃ¢â‚¬â„¢Ã¢â‚¬Â

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:37 pm

i know plenty about it. i spent two weeks interviewing board members and they explained educational funding to me down to the core.

I, as a working citizen of lakewood, wouldn't mind a operating levy for our schools. I can easily say, "I have 39 days of school left, and I'll let others worry about it since it doesn't affect me" but naturally I have to be a pain in the ass. I can't help it.

speaking of the beck center.

There will be artwork hanging up from several students, including my own, because the Beck Center had their annual art competition. I received a honorable mention for two of my photographs, while several other artists from LHS received awards as well. Notably, senior Katie Michalko received a second place with a price of $300.

Artwork that is hanging up is from Rocky River students, St.Edwards, Lakewood, and maybe some other schools. Didn't quite pay attention to the list of schools.

They'll be up starting next week I believe. Great stuff! also there will be a LHS Senior show. It includes the artwork from very talented lakewood 12th graders and that will be happening sometime in May.

Just a heads up!

stephen davis · Post by **stephen davis** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:49 pm

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:I, as a working citizen of lakewood, wouldn't mind a operating levy for our schools. I can easily say, "I have 39 days of school left, and I'll let others worry about it since it doesn't affect me" but naturally I have to be a pain in the ass. I can't help it.

Ivor,

I will agree with you on the need for an operating levy. Unfortunately, there are many in the community that do not understand that need.

As long as you are a citizen of Lakewood, beyond the next 39 days, you will be affected by our schools. Remain active.

Steve

Gary Rice · Post by **Gary Rice** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:24 pm

Well, the evening was getting a little too quiet, so I guess I'd better weigh in here.

I think Bill might have those numbers, so I'll go on another tangent.

In the first place Ivor, I understand your frustration, and I would not dream of patronizing you.

I'll just say that there are conflicting philosophies at work here on the local, state, and national level.

First, how much "academics for all" is enough? In the olden days, you went through the 8th grade, then specialized either for college, or the trades.

Somewhere along the line, the powers-that-be wanted all kids to be freakin' geniuses in everything, so arts, music, and the trades flew out the window in favor of virtual academic sweat-shops where kids are forced to goose-step through a rigid, one-size fits-all curriculum- with testing to match.

As a special education teacher (retired) I've argued my entire career for greater flexibility and diversity in the curriculum. As a former band, orchestra and choral director in the Lakewood Schools, Dad fought for his music programs 25 years ago in the face of this rising tide of academic expectations. Dad and I both know that many students who might not succeed academically might otherwise make fine artists, musicians, and athletes.

For the record, I'm sure that Dad and I would agree that the Lakewood Schools are far better than many, regarding their support for the arts.

We all have different skills.

Don't be frustrated though. In the most constructive sense, fight for greater diversity, understanding, and especially for the arts in our schools.

Back to the basics? The arts ARE basic.

Keep your good humor Ivor, while you fight the good fight. As Woody Gunthrie supposedly said- Take it easy, but take it.