Casinos, good for the region?

[Jim O'Bryan]

I noticed today that Jeff Jacobs wants to put up a tent in the parking lot of the Nautica Entertainment Complex to bring poker into the area. This "revival" style of casino will feature "Texas Hold-Em" and other games of chance. Jacobs was quoted as saying, "This will be good for tourism."



Now the powers to be have been education us for about two years on the retirement/new job program called "Texas Hold-Em."



Is Cleveland ready for these new player, ers, gambl, er entrepreneurs?



Is Lakewood ready for the spill over?



Can Texas Hold-Em replace Social Security and high tech jobs?

[Jeff Endress]

Gambling should not be viewed as a panacea, in isolation without other economic and business related plans in place. The idea that somehow if a casino is built, an "entertainment district" will magically arise like mushrooms after a rain ignores the reality of the current state of affairs in the flats, and the many failed ventures arounf the Jake and Gund. We do have to realize that we are seeing a huge drain of recreational spending as every day the busses leave for Detroit snd Niagra and some 6 Continental flights depart to Vegas. Gambling is sanctioned by the state (ponies and lottery) and many churches (Bingo) and the idea that somehow keeping it "unavailable" to protect against irresponsibility and addiction tends to ignore the extent to which on-line gaming is available 24-7. Figure out how to do it right, and retain some of those discretionary dollars and maybe capture some more.



Jeff

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jeff



Of course you post makes all the sense in the world. However history has shown us that gambling does little to help the area around it. It also does not keep the dollars in town.



From the studies I have read it takes those discretionary dollars that would have been spread over a larger area of small businesses, and concentrates them in one large business that usually send the "profits" out of town to a very few individuals.



The jobs it brings in once the building is built is almost 95% minimum or below minimum wage.



While the dark side of casinos seem to spread for counties around them, gambling addiction, broken families, drugs/alcohol abuse, prostitution. The pay off is nearly as bad or worse for the city and the schools.



As I have pointed out in numerous discussions I would be on the casino band wagon if it had happened twenty years ago. But today we are fighting for a very small section of those discretionary dollars, I believe Cleveland Market would be West of Erie, PA. and east of Vermillion. To me that seems like a pretty small pile of money to whore out a city for.



I had a study from Buffalo that really underlines just how bad the impact is to surrounding areas. Will dig it up and post it here.



But you are right if it could be done right, it could be a small piece of the puzzle.





Jim O'Bryan

[Jeff Endress]

Jim,



One major portion that you've forgotten that will impact substantially on the draw......the ferry from Port Stanley and the new Convention center! But really, I hear you. Greektown in Motown can be a lot of fun, but beyond the small surrounding island (most of which was already there) there ain't much. If you could somehow couple the Lakefront, excrusion/lake cruise ships, Playhouse square, museums and the sports venues to make us a destination for out of towners, then you get beyond the redistribution of the available local discretionary funds. But, much like the bridge to Canada and the people mover, I just don't see that happening. Instead, what we'll be fed is a Casino that will somehow spark an urban renewal, without any overall direction towards leveraging existing assets so the total is greater then the sum of the parts.



Jeff

[Stan Walsh]

Jim,
We have had legalized gaming in Northern New Mexico since the early 1990's. It does not, in a general sense, help the local economy. Santa Fe where I now live, is already a tourist center. We have not seen an influx of tourists showing up to gamble and spending their spoils in the community. What we have seen are an alarming number of, especially, older folks who live here, are not rich, but find a way to spend every cent they have, and many times more than they can afford, to win the big one. I ran Gray Line of Northern New Mexico Tours for a few years in the late nineties and we had shuttle buses taking locals to the casinos every night. We'd pick them up at their houses until they defaulted on their mortgages and then we'd pick them up at their apartments until they could no longer pay the rent, we even picked up, routinely, one poor soul who was now living in her car (it didn't run).
Don't ever dismiss the real problem of gambling, It's not the increase of traffic, it's not the influx of hookers and con artists, it's the effects of gambling, the addiction, which steals from your neighbors and friends the few pennies they've saved, until they have nothing. Living under the roller coaster isn't all it's cracked up to be, especially when you can't afford the price of admission. Lakewood needs no gambling! Cleveland needs no gambling!

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,
....Don't ever dismiss the real problem of gambling, It's not the increase of traffic, it's not the influx of hookers and con artists, it's the effects of gambling, the addiction, which steals from your neighbors and friends the few pennies they've saved, until they have nothing. Living under the roller coaster isn't all it's cracked up to be, especially when you can't afford the price of admission. Lakewood needs no gambling! Cleveland needs no gambling!

Stan

You are preaching to the choir. I agree. It is so easy for developers and snake oil salesman to tell us the benefits while glossing over or neglecting totally facts that do not make their case, but are every bit as important to the community.

I see gambling, as nothing more than bilking the poor, the needy, the weak.

When I know someone going to Vegas I always tell them to check out my favorite spots in Vegas, the pawn shops. you just can't imagine the amount of lucky jewelry they have.


Jim O'Bryan

PS- As you know live in the vast area we call "Leakwood" what would you think of taking part in a thread called, "A view from afar."? I have gotten many request from ex-Lakewoodites to have a place to post.

[Stephen Calhoun]

Gambling is trickle up economics: take what little money people have and pass it up. It's a transfer of the risk premium too; all the wretched gamblers pay for the very few good ones.

Texas Hold-em, a bluffer's game extraordinaire, is about as perfect a trope for our times as one could imagine.

"Push that pot over here, Mr. Buddy!"

[Jim O'Bryan]

Gambling is trickle up economics: take what little money people have and pass it up. It's a transfer of the risk premium too; all the wretched gamblers pay for the very few good ones.

Texas Hold-em, a bluffer's game extraordinaire, is about as perfect a trope for our times as one could imagine.

"Push that pot over here, Mr. Buddy!"

Steve

I see gambling as a way to get the last pennies out of the poor. Although the pawn shops in Vegas would point out that many of the wealthy have as much bad luck.

Jim O'Bryan