Historic Preservation? Be afraid, be VERY afraid!

[Charyn Compeau]

I have to wonder why wee feel we need to regulate something now when, for over 100 years, we have been able to maintain such a wonderful city.

I am sure that there were many people 20, 50, 75 or 100 years ago that were horrified by something... the screened porch, the type of house, the color of paint, a line of bushes, etc. etc.

But we have allowed people to own and maintain their properties without expecting the city to impose a collective will on those that see something 'different' as beautiful

I have to say i am with Gary - this is a slippery slope that I don't think Lakewood should, or needs to, go down.

Always,
Charyn

[Kate McCarthy]

Obviously if Gary wasn't able to make the alterations he wanted to on a house in Lakewood, changes to homes are already being regulated. That's why I questioned what appeals process or requests for variances existed. I know that designating a neighborhood as historic can severly limit changes one can make to one's home. It can also possibly bring in alternative funding streams for renovation and preservation so the loss of freedom of choice has to be weighed with the presence of a stream of money that could greatly enhance the value of a property. That's a decision a community/neighborhood must make on their own.

The example I gave earlier, the house where the porch was obliterated and turned into an interior room and multiple dormers leap out from the roof, was a terrible alteration that was probably done a number of years ago. I knew a couple of people looking for a new home and knew the person trying to sell the house next door to this monstrosity (it looks like a ship ready to set sail) and was surprised that everyone said they couldn't live next to that house. Houses on either side are classic Lakewood homes, as is much of the neighborhood. But this eyesore, in a tight housing market, sent people running away from a very nice home.

From what I can see in Lakewood it has not been well served by a anything goes if the homeowner wants it that's fine approach. Though I would hate to see an over reaction in the other direction where the taste police run amock. As I said, I love my neighbor's cow mailbox and the freedom to dry laundry outside and paint my house any color I want. But if I want to add a fourth story to my two story house with an attic, I may be crossing a line. It's the community that has to define that line and I'd like to know who is currently defining it.

[Gary Rice]

Kate,

I always enjoy reading your posts.

Thanks for contributing to this thread, as well.

As far as safety or structural considerations go, Lakewood, like most communities, has building codes, and probably quite a few of them too.

When I was serving my first year with the Community Development Block Grant Committee, I learned about some of the many positive things that the City of Lakewood has been doing to address these concerns. Programs like Project Paintbrush and Project Pride are just two of a number of affirmative activities that the city uses to help keep the housing stock up.

My concern was clearly with the potential for an increased, and arbitrarily enforced "cosmetic oversight" end of things. There are many well-intentioned people who would like to see this greater cosmetic oversight. The home that you describe above, might be one of those that would fall under scrutiny, if "cosmetics" indeed becomes a bigger legal issue than it has been.

Cosmetics were in fact, a big part of my own ill-fated interaction with the Architectural Review Board.

There are those who feel better qualified to judge cosmetics than others. There might be those who would think the cow mailbox to be cute, and others who might look at it as incredibly gauche'.

My point is simply that, if we allow private ownership, that we need to be very careful when we propose to limit it. That does not make for happy campers, at least in my view. In my opinion, it only makes possible the serving of tyranny, by a well-meaning, but autocratic, holier-than-thou mindset.

And by the way, take a look, just look, at some areas that have been already designated as being historic around here. Talk to people who have experienced this utopian neighborhood dream.

I would suspect that you will hear about a nightmare instead. Properties in some of the areas I've seen, have been vacated and left to rot, when people got tired of goose stepping, and restoration became prohibitively expensive.

We're too poor as a region, to be forced to put all these fancy fake-old "side pipes and fender skirts" back on these houses, at least in my view. (Mixing my metaphors, of course)

Let's always encourage, but never force, particular cosmetic restorations. To do otherwise, might cost you a cow!

[David Bargetzi]

I don't like the idea of amazingly rigid guidelines but I do feel that Historic designation would be more positive than negative overall. Lakewood needs to build some energy around its housing stock. More education about the era and what the houses looked like inside and out would really help. An annual house fair where not only were there workshops but perhaps a block closed off with hands on 'porch workshops' or some other kind of repair and improvement that many many Lakewood Houses have in common. Although the extreme version of "Housing Association" that controls our lives is unattractive, the other end where people can do whatever they want is no more pleasing. The only reason we don't have 'yard vehicles' in Lakewood is that our yards are too small.

David

[DougHuntingdon]

Doesn't Birdtown have a historic designation, and it is one of the worst areas of Lakewood? (Just adding to the discussion not necessarily taking sides)

Doug

edit: corrected from Cleveland to Lakewood

[Charyn Compeau]

Doug -

How is it that Birdtown is one of the worst areas in Cleveland? Did I miss something?

Pretty sure - as I spent four months traveling down Union/Woodland - that I can find about a kazillion places in Cleveland that are worse off in any way you can name (finacially, structurally, culturally, etc.). And that doesnt even scratch the surface of some of the less than swell suburbs...

Just Curious,
Charyn

edit = adding::: Ahhhhhh!!!! Even though I may not completely agree - that makes much more sense to me now!! Thanks!

[Michael Fleenor]

Kate:

You make very good points. Through its ARB, Lakewood is already regulating changes. Many local historic district review boards review the same types of changes that our ARB is reviewing. While I haven't been to a meeting of the Lakewood ARB, the design review committees I have been a part of havefairly informal. Typically, this has been a conversation around the table. While I've seen some homeowners unhappy with not being able to do what they had intended to do, others have been really grateful to get some advise about what is appropriate for the style of their house or other ways to approach a project. (I've seen committees actually help homeowners save money by approaching a project a different way, say buying a unique historic door at Habitat's ReStore rather that buying the generic Home Depot door). As I said in my earlier post, local districts typically cover those "Extreme Makeovers" issues you mentioned in your example--huge dormers, inappropriate railings, etc. Very few districts control color because it is such a personal thing and it is reversible. Also I like the fact that with a local historic designation, you develope design guidelines geared to the particular neighborhood so everyone knows what the puprose of the designation is and what you are trying to achieve.

Gary:

You make a good point that context is everything--what is appropriate for rural Appalachia may not be appropriate for a midcentury ranch neighborhood and what is appropriate for a 19th Century rowhouse neighborhood may not be appropriate for a 20th Century streetcar suburb like Lakewood. I hope I didn't offend with my "cars up on blocks" reference. Being from Tennessee, I felt more comfortable making fun of myself that potentially offending someone else. I would disagree with your comment concerning "being forced to put these fancy, fake old side pipes and fender skirts back on these houses." If you live in a local district and you go to get a building permit, that would initiate the design review process for the work you are looking to get the permit for--nothing else. In other words, if you go to get a permit to replace your asphalt shingle roof, no one will be telling you you need to rebuild your altered porch. The review is only for the work to be done. Like I said earlier, no one would tell you you have to preserve a slate roof if you can show that the slate can't be repaired and you can't afford to replace with slate. The process is not as extreme as you think. In most design review committees I've been on, your screened in porch would have been approved as well, as long as you were insetting the screens and not altering the original design of the porch.

Doug:

Birdtown was just listed on the National Register. It is an honor, but it has no impact on what you can and can't do to your house. National Register listing or eligibility does impact how Federal funds can be spent in an area. Since the entire City of Lakewood has been determined to be eligible for listing, they already have to follow those Federal regulations. Gary started this thread, I believe, in response to the article in the Sun Post that Lakewood was working on a preservation ordinance that would make it possible for them to declare local districts--this is overlay zoning that comes with additional design review. As for Birdtown being one of the "worst" areas, I'm not sure what you mean. I have heard that fifty years ago the neighborhood was one of the poorest census tracts in the County, but from an architectural viewpoint, it is clearly one of the most unique and interesting parts of Lakewood.

We talk a lot on the forum about "branding." I think historic designation gives the CIty the opportunity to brand itself and some local neighborhoods as special and unique. A local designation gives us the opportunity to make sure that those special places like Birdtown stay unique by preserving what makes them unique in the first place. This does not come with money, but could help guide homeowner's decisions. Although the entire City of Shaker Heights (for the most part) is listed on the National Register, they don't have local districts. They are currently working on Winslow Road, their one street that is all doubles, to make that a local district and strengthen the appearance and desirability of the street. The City (through The Fund for the Future of Shaker Heights) made grants available to homoewoners on that street to make repairs.

I do hope folks here in Lakewood will let different neighborhoods decide for themselves if this is something they want to pursue and not try to stop the process for everyone. Like I said before, it is another tool the City has at its disposal.

Creating a preservation ordinance is the first step in the City becoming a Certified Local Government. Being a CLG would make the City eligible for State funds to do survey, nominations to the NR, brochures to interpret neighborhood history and architecture, etc.

[Gary Rice]

Michael,

Thanks for your observations, and your time, regarding explanations of the parameters regarding historic districts.

In one respect at least, we're all on the same page. We want attractive, yet affordable housing stock that will help to retain property values and interested buyers.

In the ideal perspective that you suggest, opportunities might exist for homeowners to collaborate with sensible solutions to home restorations. I can see where there might even be buyers' co-ops, helping to get materials, or even favorable loans or greater tax incentives, to improve their housing.

Unfortunately, at the time I was involved with the Architectural Review Board, my experience was highly negative and adversarial. I tried to be a civil-tongued, college-educated man, who wanted a simple and reasonable thing done. Had I to do it over again, I probably would have gone ahead and done what I wanted, and let the courts determine the solution, if need be.

Had not my family asked me to withdraw our claim, and forget about it, that is exactly what I felt like doing.

This was my poor sick mother's wish..a simple screened-in porch. Funny that you should say "insetting the screens". That's kind of what they suggested. They wanted the screens either behind the columns, (thereby putting Mother in her own CAGE on our small porch) or between them, although how the H-E-double hockey sticks you would put a screen in the MIDDLE of porch railings or columns, is beyond me.

Not to mention that Mom could not then UTILIZE those porch railings, to help her walk.

I disdain profanity, yet to this day, every profane word I can think of would apply to my experience with that Board, and what that experience did to my dear late mom.

In short, in spite of your good intentions, (and I mean this in a general sense, and not to you personally) STAY AWAY from my porch with those holier-than-me restoration ideas. OUR ideas for OUR house, are as good as some committees'- and their money did not buy our house, nor will it pay for our repairs.

I thank you however, for caring about Lakewood. There may yet be some middle ground, where people voluntarily are encouraged to fix up their homes.

If coercion is involved, however, then maybe those hound dogs under the porch are not such a bad idea after all....

[Lynn Farris]

Gary, I understand what you are saying and I appreciate Michael's points as wel and actually everyone that has contributed in this thread.

I'm torn because I do like personal freedom to do what you want with your property and I would like to see people keep the property up.

I found it beyond irritating to see the clamor against the previous owner of the house at Lake and Nicholoson who wanted to sell the stained glass windows in his home and the fence around it. It seemed to me that he had the right to do that - he wanted to be able to just save his home. However, there was such an uproar that he was not allowed to do that - and I cannot understand to this day - the reasoning behind the city not allowing him to do that. In fact the new owner has replaceded the stained glass windows - without a public outcry. Putting a fence that close to the sidewalk requires a variance I believe and we were telling him he couldn't take a fence down.

On the other hand, I do have respect for the ARB, they are normally correct in what works and what doesn't work well in Lakewood and they are volunteers who take their job seriously. However I think they lack good PR sometimes.

Someone that comes and wants to do something with their home certainly cares about it. Maybe if instead of just telling that person no, a representatitve from the building department, planning department could sit down with that individual, understand the problem and work with them to come up with a mutually agreeable solution. My daughter worked with Cudell and they did this very successsfully. Often the homeowner/business owner liked the idea better and saved money - they just hadn't thought of doing something that way.

Again, spin it positively as a help to the homeowner rather than road block to achieving their goal. Michael's group is great at providing stepping stones and assistance and that is why this is a good idea overall - your very real concerns notwithstanding.

[Gary Rice]

Lynn,

Thanks very much for your posting. I appreciate your suggestions that as positive an experience as possible be presented to the person seeking change for their home.

In all likelihood, there are probably few, if any members of the ARB who were there when I was trying to get my work done.

Perhaps it is better these days.

Still, my own experience was so negative for my family that, had you experienced my situation, I would be surprised if you would not feel the same way. As you indicated with that window situation, sometimes things seem neither fair, nor consistent.

In a time when we struggle to retain on-site homeowners in Lakewood, we would be well advised to respect their rights. To do less will no doubt encourage continued flight, and a situation like some parts of other cities, where dollhouses nestle up to dumps.

I say this now. Any politician who openly supports this "historic" dictatorship business will have a hard time convincing me that he or she should not go out the door, come November. The chance of their getting my vote, would lie somewhere between slim, and none.

The next restoration project, after all, could be your own.

Don't say I did not warn you.

[Rick Uldricks]

I am so happy that my neighbor on Athens has the personal freedom to hang his giant underwear on the clothesline next to his above-ground pool.

What rules?

[Gary Rice]

Rick,

Gee thanks,

I thought I had been making persuasive personal freedom arguments, and you had to come along with this example!

That does appear to be some BIG underwear, does it not?

But still:

If a man, or woman's clothesline, be not part of their castle, what then?

Here's a bigger question for all of us:

Does Rick's example validate a need for greater regulation, or are we in danger of seeing regulation run amuck?

I'm glad I use a clothes dryer.

I'm not sure if Ghandi's quote about being the change we would like to see in the world applied to a change of underwear?

[DougHuntingdon]

good fences make good neighbors, but you may not be able to put up a big enough fence to block out that underwear ):

Doug

[Grace O'Malley]

There was a time, not that long ago, that a clothesline was a familiar sight.

Now that almost every home has an automatic clothes dryer, you just don't see too many people out hanging clothes.


And what does this modern convenience get us?

Increased use of fossil fuels, increased expenditures that cost a family a portion of their income, less time outdoors talking to the neighbors, and more chances of a judgmental neighbor ridiculing us for not keeping a common household task out of sight.

[Gary Rice]

OK, I am once again inspired by all of your postings.

Out comes the old banjo, here we go:

Lakewood Underwear

(to the tune of Battle Hymn)

The underwear of Lakewood goes a
'flappin' in the breeze,
like so many flags of freedom,
as they brush against the trees.
As we hang up our fine washing,
we will fear not, birds nor bees,
Our underwear flaps on.

Lakewood underwear forever (3x)
Our underwear flaps on.

On battlefields around the world,
we flew our flag on high;
and back home, here in Lakewood,
we'll not let tradition die.
Raise on high our underwear,
"For freedom!" we will cry!
Our underwear flaps on!

to refrain

What a dilemma; to use up fossil fuels, or risk full disclosure?