Should Lakewood Teachers Give Up Their Bonus?

[Bill Call]

Some years ago the school board agreed to give teachers an annual 10% bonus. The board agreed to pay the 10% employee contribution to the teachers retirement plan in addition to the 15% employer contribution already contributed by the system. At the time the system was flush and a bonus seemed like a good idea. But times have changed.

Many private firms pay bonuses to share in the good fortune of the company. They don't continue those bonuses when the company is losing money and market share.

The school board should consider a halt to those bonus payments.

[Phil Florian]

Many private firms pay bonuses to share in the good fortune of the company. They don't continue those bonuses when the company is losing money and market share.

...unless you mean upper management, who seem to get a great bonus regardless. Usually from the savings they make from laying off thousands of employees.

But I do agree that a bonus in lean times isn't always viable. I think teachers, of all public employees, are worth every penny of it. Or should be, anyway. There are surely some teachers that don't deserve the post but we can't fix everything. I would love to see a bonus be more connected to merit, too, as a freebie doesn't necessarily encourage anything new or more from a teacher.

What are "fortunes" to share, in a school? Teachers don't do their job to make the school district money. They aren't a sales person attempting to meet and beat a quota. They aren't lawyers out to get bigger pay-offs or awards or billable hours. They are their to provide a public service and should be rewarded based on the fortunes of the schools. If acheivement goes up, if behavior incidents go down, or if kids are just overall doing better, wouldn't this be the area of expertise that a teacher can impact? If you are considering 'fortune' only to be economic gain, that seems a bit silly since public schools don't exist to make money; they only are there to provide a service. And to provide the best service they need the best teachers and the best teachers are the ones that we get and retain over time because they get paid enough to allow them to stay in teaching. We start cutting teacher pay as agreed upon in their current contract we risk losing people, possibly good ones. That worth it?

So I do agree that maybe laying out some criteria for awards would be good (in areas that a teacher has some control, that is) but to simply say stop it doesn't make sense.

[Jeff Endress]

Many private firms pay bonuses to share in the good fortune of the company. They don't continue those bonuses when the company is losing money and market share.

Like, say, Home Depot?

In point of fact, corporate America is paying HUGE bonuses to CEOs (generally as they leave) irrespective of the results. It's a part of the "compensation package....

But, back to your point. Whether it's teachers or other public sector employees, the employer (that would be us taxpayers) is constrained by the contract which was negotiated. We simply don't have the freedom for a "do over" in the event of changes in economic circumstances. Hence, unless the school board is somehow able to renegotiate the present contract, it simply cannot, (without significant litigation expenses and related Union issues) "halt" those payments...anymore than the board could unilaterally decide to reduce the salary schedule.

So, the answer to your question is "No". The Board of Education should not consider taking unilateral actions which it knows would be in violation of its present labor agreements. To do so would be an extremely expensive misstep.

Now, if what you're really asking is whether the Board should consider changing the compensation in future contracts to require employee contribution, then the answer would depend on the finances and revenue projections at the time of the contract negotiations.

Jeff

[Bill Call]

So I do agree that maybe laying out some criteria for awards would be good (in areas that a teacher has some control, that is) but to simply say stop it doesn't make sense.

I am simply suggesting that the employee pay the employee portion of the pension contribution. That's how it is done in most other districts across the State of Ohio.

[Jeff Endress]

Bill

As a suggestion, it certainly has merit. Hopefully, at such time that there are contract negotiations, that issue can be addressed. It is doubtful that anyhting would occur on a voluntary basis.

Jeff

[Brad Babcock]

The teachers' pension is a different creature. They contribute to the State Teachers' Retirement Fund. It is actually less generous than it used to be. My mother taught at Harding, briefly, then followed the Hearing Impaired program to Millridge, in Mayfield. She retired with a pension of 95% of the average of her top three years salary. Her salary was quite substantial, but then again she has many continuing education hours beyond her Masters in Special Ed.
As negotiated by their union, most teachers start-off making not much money. With seniority and furthering of their own education, the scale rises. They can make pretty good money, but the deal may not be as sweet as it was in years past. These bonuses, which sound quite generous, are just a portion of a total package. It may have been done to help incent newer teachers who have not worked their way up the pay scale yet. I don't really know...I wasn't there when the deal was made.
The point is, it is a small part of a much bigger package.

[Charyn Compeau]

The point is, it is a small part of a much bigger package.

And that is how it should be analyzed. But then again... sensationalism spurs response, doesn't it?

Always,
Charyn

[Bill Call]

The point is, it is a small part of a much bigger package.

That is true. In a few short years the average teacher will cost the district $100,000 per year. It may offend the sensibilities of some to say that it is too much but perhaps it is enough?

[Jeff Endress]

In a few short years the average teacher will cost the district $100,000 per year

Jeezus....if an average teacher will cost an average district 100K, I wonder how much an above average district like Lakewood would have to pay its above average teachers to remain competitive?

Jeff

[Charyn Compeau]

Now compare that to the cost to employ the average insurance agent, restaurant manager, lawyer, cement worker, etc.

I cant answer all of them; however, based upon my experience I can speak to the average cost to retain a cement worker and a restaurant general manager manager:

Restaurant Manager (National family dining chain)
Salary: 55,000
Bonus: 15,000
Health Insurance (assumes Family HMO option - the most popular option - is chosen): ~13,000
Vision/Dental/Life/Disability: ~2,000
401K (at average contribution of 5% matched): 2,500
Various state and local contributions (futa, suta, WC, OASDI & HI): ~6,000

Total cost to employ one IHOP-style restaurant manager: 93,500

Numbers are only relevant in their correct context. Using the big numbers in an alarmist fashion is irresponsible. And quite frankly...

The people responsible for my children for six hous a day, five days a week, nine months out the year... and that are responsible for educating and forming the minds of tomorrows leaders are worth more than a damn IHOP/Dennys/Friendly's/Eat-n-Park/etc. manager.

Much more. Why dont you go pick on a study group or something....

FWIW
Charyn

[Jeff Endress]

Charyn

I couldn't agree with you more.....even though I only have 2 more years of my youngest remaining at LHS. One of the first (if not THE first) questions asked by any potential homebuyer: "So, how are the schools?"
Maintaining a quality system that provides a quality education is perhaps the largest factor that affects our continued viability as a quality community. Yes, I know the taxes are a bite, but look at what's happening to those who fled to "cheaper" communities....Medina, unable to pass a levy to provide needed infastructure for its new found population.....same for various systems out west.

I think it's easier to attack public sector employees. After all we know what they make. And we're paying for them. But, merely looking at public service employees, trying to cut their wages, so you can save some tax monies, is short sighted, both as to overall impact on the community, property values, not to mention the education of the coming generation....

Jeff

[Shawn Juris]

Beyond the cost and comparison to other fields, I'm curious if teacher's could be held to standards that a plant worker would be. In order to receive your bonus you must produce students with an average of B or better 70% of the time. Perform some quality control measures to ensure that their results are accurate. Doesn't anyone else find it odd, that an accountant needs to get the numbers accurate, a cook has to prepare the food properly, a carpenter has to build his product as designed but a teacher can turn out students that don't do well and still expect to get paid and keep their jobs???
I look back on my experience of teachers simply lecturing then grading the test and never attempting to educate their students. It's great for those that do. The small handful usually seem to get a movie made about them. These production line teachers that file their students in and out of class without tending to their products and the results haven't earned their wage, their just punching a clock.
Sorry for the rant and I'm not pointing fingers at Lakewood's teachers in particular. Maybe it's an exaggeration but I believe that there is some truth in there to consider.

[Bill Call]

I think it's easier to attack public sector employees. After all we know what they make. And we're paying for them. But, merely looking at public service employees, trying to cut their wages, so you can save some tax monies, is short sighted, both as to overall impact on the community, property values, not to mention the education of the coming generation....
Jeff

Lakewood now has some of the highest property taxes and local income taxes in the country. For that we get a school system and city services that are at best just average.

With a rising crime rate, declining services, decaying infrastructure and a middle class fleeing the City we can ill afford business as usual. The tax increases demanded by the City and schools may not be designed to have a negative impact on the economic health of the City but they certainly are having that affect.

I am not "attacking public sector employees". I am pointing out their compensation packages are superior to most private sector packages, greater than the average Lakewood resident enjoys and no longer affordable.

I suspect that if I said the average teacher cost $200,000 or $300,000 a year your answer would be the same: It's still not enough!

I guess it's more a difference in how our brains are wired. I am not going to convince you that giving everyone a raise is not the solution to the City's problems and you are not going to convince me that the City's problems stem from an underpaid public workforce.

I suppose it's like the differences between the brains of men and women. There was a book that theorized that men and women think so differently it is like they are from different planets. I didn't read it but I do remember the title was Women are from Venus and Men are from Uranus. Or something like that.

[stephen davis]

I didn't read it but I do remember the title was Women are from Venus and Men are from Uranus. Or something like that.

So your understanding of Public Education is sort of equivalent to your understanding of that book?

[Jeff Endress]

Bill

Actually, the planet was not my...er Uranus, it was Mars....

And, please don't suppose my reaction. My point was (and is), that in order to attract ANY employee, in any buisiness, you have to compete with everyone else out there trying to attract the same employee.

I don't believe that raises will solve the city problems, anymore than I believe that those problems are from an underpaid workforce. I also don't believe you can solve

a rising crime rate, declining services, decaying infrastructure and a middle class fleeing the City

by eliminating or reducing the employees and their related costs which are necessay to reduce the crime rate, improve the services and repair the infastructure and thereby encourage the middle class to forego its flight, which apparently you do.

You would like to see taxes lowered. We all would. You would like to see services improved. We all would. Unless you have some method by which we can attract a qualified workforce for substantially less then its market rate, I don't know how you do both.

Jeff