Panhandlers in Lakewood

[stephen davis]

During the holidays, I was approached by a panhandler outside Chipotle. My wife was approched by panhandlers at Drug Mart and at the Walgeen's at Highland and Detroit.

Does Lakewood have any ordinances that prohibit this kind of activity? Is it worth notifying the police, or is this something we just have to accept as their right?

I suspect we may all see more of this due to changes in our regional economy.

Any opinions from City Hall on this issue?

[Mark Crnolatas]

Sort of off topic ..but "regional economy" has me a little confused. I live on a LESS than affluent busy main street in the Wood, and within eye-sight of where I live, are 11 new cars with only 1 of which I'd call "low end" in price-, all purchased in the fall.

I'm not sure that's much of a poll or indication, but it seems they're economic standing isn't all that bad.

*shrug*

[Kenneth Warren]

Steve:

I am not exactly sure of the Lakewood ordinance.

There has been an uptick over the past year in the vicinity of the Main Library.

At night library staff has experienced an increase over the past year in Drug Mart/Kaufman Park parking area. While there are the usual persons that seem down on their luck, mentally challenged, homeless, the new twist in the action is two or three teenagers approaching in the dark, press into the body space more than someone might expect. That can set off the fear of mugging.

I believe there may be free speech considerations. However, when the behavior is aggressive or intimidating, I believe other laws may kick in.

Again these are signs of disorder and chaos that make people uneasy.

A police levy, please.

Kenneth Warren

[Mark Timieski]

I couple years ago, I had the unfortunate experience of my description (white 30 something year old male, dark pants) matching the description of a panhandler outside the library. I was detained by the police for a time and as that week’s police blotter stated “I was advisedâ€Â

[Jim O'Bryan]

Increases in panhandling, burglaries, & misc theft as well as increases in violent crimes (particularly domestic ones) ALWAYS increase in the month of December.

But to directly answer the question - yes there are laws and yes, please do call the police when you are approached.

Regards,
Charyn

Charyn

I agree that many of the crimes I listen to on the scanner are crimes of holiday desperation, crimes of chance, or drunken stupidity. To be realistic the two break in were nice cars with prizes on the seats(brief case/computer, and wrapped Christmas Presents) not making excuses for the crime but...

At the same time, as with the block watches Mark was trying to get going two years ago, and hiring police. You want to be ahead of the curve. It is much better as we learned this summer to have a block watch set up in friendly circumstances with neighbors enjoying the walk, then as an emergency line of defense.

From day one of the Lakewood Observer project which is much larger than the paper and this board, one primary focus was what does a city need to succeed into the future, based on serious facts. What does a city need to attract residents and business. It always came down to a very simple formula Safe and Clean. From that foundation anything is possible as we found out this year.

Block watches send out signals that we are tough and very involved, This is a great reputation to have for the security of those living here, and to attract new people and businesses.

I think Lakewood Observers and Mr. Warren have come up with a winning idea again. Why not lay the problems, and the future of the police department out, and pass a Police Levy, that addresses these key issues for life in Lakewood. While speaking with Observers last night the running theme seemed to be, let's bargain. Give the police what they need, and ask for them to install more residency incentives.

It could be a win/win.


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[Bill Call]

I think Lakewood Observers and Mr. Warren have come up with a winning idea again. Why not lay the problems, and the future of the police department out, and pass a Police Levy....

Let's get this straight. Over the last 25 years Lakewood has lost 25% of its population and has increased the size of its police department by 20% and the answer to the decline in quality of life and the increase in crime is to... INCREASE TAXES!!

To what end? The current administration has turned a blind eye to the abuse of sick leave, done nothing to curb rising overtime costs and has allowed the streets, parks and basic infrastructure to deteriorate. If they had more money what would they do with it? If past practice is any guide:

Everyone would get a raise.

Everyone would get extra vacation time.

Everyone would get more sick time, a sweeter retirement plan, a more expensive medical plan and more!! And then what? Well, at that point the the city would need more money.

A short time ago I so a man pushing a shopping cart down the middle of Clifton Boulevard. The cart was full of his personal belongings. It is a sight that used to be confined to the poorer sections of Cleveland. Is that the future of Lakewood?

[Kenneth Warren]

Bill:

Fathers from the greatest generation on the scene in the days of population peak did the job on the home front that is not getting done with the underclass and transient population growing and on the move today.

Plain and simple – we need more cops. Look at the neighborhoods east and south of us and the spillover effects.

Are the socio-economic classes and the predatory pathologies of today the same as yesterday? Of course, the answer is no. But you balk at biting the bullet.

Talk to any Lakewood policemen about the time draining effects of domestic violence calls on the force. Real simple the demos, the economy and the laws have changed. And it’s not just here. But we live here.

I see what’s happening, I speak with officers and I see a need for more manpower, purely and simply.

Cops keep the peace, bust the perps, and protect property values. A property tax is a reasonable, progressive way to bite the bullet, so to speak, with a targeted, dedicated use of the funds.

Conditions have changed, Bill. We need to pay the piper or arm ourselves.

I believe in hiring public sector pros with guns and holding the public pros sector accountable. A libertarian may see it otherwise, of course. As the wealthy neighborhoods of New Orleans have demonstrated, Blackwater security is always an option for those disposed to private sector solutions.
Or a block could rent a cop to keep watch depending on the fear factor....

I don't believe those solutions serve the whole city.

Under an effective strategic police plan for the whole city, I would not begrudge the police a raise. I don't believe it's constructive to dismiss the police forces claim on some resources out of hand.

Lakewood is either fit and funded for the competition to maintain quality of life or it is not.

Clearly a community conversation is in order. Let's put the matter on the table transparently and see if the FOP, Council, Police Chief and powers that be have anything to add to a conversation with citizens about safety needs.

I have not done any research on the crime data. I do not believe the crime data will tell the whole story anyway.

There are Lakewood Policemen I know and trust. I talk and listen. I want to live in a community that provides a clear signal of respect and trust to the men in blue, and of course I would expect the spirit of mutual respect in return.

That spirit is critical to Lakewood’s success.

You talk about the management of decline, seeing the big government soup of needs all rolled into one, fearing the muddle and frittering away of resources.

Others suggest a city manager, a strategic plan, a lock box on infrastructure, Citi-Stat data, a hard recognition no more dollars are available.

I disagree with all these strategies, which cause delay and layer competing needs in a political process. I do not believe there will be clear, urgent consensus on any strategic choices the city needs to be making on the character of its safety force.

I am suggesting a defined strategic focus by community and police on a police levy is perhaps a key path to common ground that people can understand and quite possibly support.

So that’s what I am attempting to discern here, while hoping the LO Deck can provide some smoke signals and transparent clues to the powers that be or to those that may see and run otherwise.

Again, time is tight, I believe. I want to stay ahead of the curve. The crack dealer setting up shop, driving into Lakewood by bike from Cleveland, needs to be nipped in the bud.

Now a more elaborate conversation about residency incentives, a community policing models, school liaison program, jail strategy etc, technology etc. is certainly demanded.

Perhaps this is what the wizards from CSU will produce from their focus groups and vision work.

Can we determine interest of officers, administration and community to discuss a strategic police plan?

Will Council do these things:

1. A Police Model/Crime Assessment for 21st Century Lakewood

2. A Police Strategic Response for 21st Century Lakewood

3. A Police Budget of Promises and Deliverables for 21st Century lakewood public library

Can the FOP and or the Police Chief consider these matters transparently in a way that will build trust?

I don’t know, but I would sure like to find out.

And let’s not forget the need and placement for an expanded Municipal Jail.

Kenneth Warren

[DougHuntingdon]

A couple times I saw some aggressive panhandling by a professional panhandler at W117 CVS that I recognized from downtown. I called LPD and to their credit they responded quickly.

Another time there was a pretty bad one in McDonalds on W117, but as I fumbled in my phone to find LPD's number, the cops already showed up. He ran out of there, trying to escape to the Cleveland side of W117. But, they drug him back to Lakewood

To anyone who gives to the professional panhandlers: you are part of the problem. Why not just hand them some crack or a 40 ounce?

Doug

[Jim O'Bryan]

A couple times I saw some aggressive panhandling by a professional panhandler at W117 CVS that I recognized from downtown. I called LPD and to their credit they responded quickly.

Another time there was a pretty bad one in McDonalds on W117, but as I fumbled in my phone to find LPD's number, the cops already showed up. He ran out of there, trying to escape to the Cleveland side of W117. But, they drug him back to Lakewood

To anyone who gives to the professional panhandlers: you are part of the problem. Why not just hand them some crack or a 40 ounce?

Doug

Doug

You bring up a great point, and excellent example of building the brand. As the pros get together to share pulls on the 40 and the pipe, you can bet they talk of favorite places and least favorite places. While many would ignore or walkaway it is really best for all to call the police and at least report it. Police have a system where if they are busy, they will get to it when they can, but if they are not busy with more important crime, they will stop by, ask simple questions, run the name and number and usually very politely to ask them to move on. At the same time if they are some of the homeless that are down on their luck, or in the case of many, handicapped mentally they can help get them in the system with the right agency.

Judge Pat Carroll has been part of a group of judges and cities that have formed ways to separate criminals, from people that truly need help because of illness or addiction. This cutting edge program continues to grow and define itself, but the key is helping the police and the courts immediately understand it is best to deal with the underlining problems instead of instantly jailing all.

One of my pet peeves, and concerns. Door to door sales people. I am not speaking of kids selling cookies, seeds, candy or Grit. I am speaking of the professional door to door sales person and possible semi pro caser that flood into the city in warmer weather.

When working out of my house the doorbell would ring, i would answer and there would be a person collecting for whatever. I would always ask for id. Most would present a phony photo id and claim they were registered with the city 98% were not. What would bother me the most was no matter what I said they would walk to the end of my walk, and write down notes. While it seemed no big deal and probably said "opinionated jerk." Then I would watch as they would go to a neighbors house who was not home. Ring the bell for more than a minute, walk to the end of the driveway and again write down notes. What did those notes say? "11:00am, no one home, no car in driveway, no dog, could see TV and nice furnishings. Possible." Who knows.

I would always call the police on the non emergency number, and a officer would stop by. If they were legal, the officer would send them on their way but a vast majority of the time, you would see the "salesperson" be ushered to the end of the street, where they would sit and wait for a van or car to stop by and pick them up. The vehicle was usually filed with others with clipboards.

Being tough, diligent and concerned is a great trait for a city brand in my humble opinion.

FWIW


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[Shawn Juris]

quick tidbit on the bad element of Cleveland flooding into Lakewood portion of this discussion. Sure south of us is Cleveland but much of that is West Park. Now maybe I was just fortunate but it certainly always felt like a very safe, comfortable area to me. With the exception of terrible response of the snow plows on our side streets, I didn't have the feeling that it was such a dangerous place.
To the east and southeast, maybe so. I'm not all that familiar but if you dropped someone on either side of the border and asked if they were in Lakewood or Cleveland, do you think they could tell (provided they weren't looking at the color of the street sign).
I know it's come up a number of times but I can certainly think of many areas that are far worse than the Cleveland zip codes that surround us. Any chance that overflow from our supposed neighboring hooligans are more times than not local Lakewoodites?

[Jim O'Bryan]

quick tidbit on the bad element of Cleveland flooding into Lakewood portion of this discussion. Sure south of us is Cleveland but much of that is West Park. Now maybe I was just fortunate but it certainly always felt like a very safe, comfortable area to me. With the exception of terrible response of the snow plows on our side streets, I didn't have the feeling that it was such a dangerous place.

Shawn

Excellent point. West Park is filled with police, fire, teachers etc. has been for years. It is also filled with people that like Lakewood but find the taxes too high to live here.

When we start annexing Cleveland, it should be penciled in as a possibility.

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[Phil Florian]

If people don't want to restrict their responses to homeless folks or panhandlers to simply ignoring or calling the police, you could be polite and suggest they visit the Lakewood Christian Service Center (if they have a Lakewood addy somehow) or Cleveland's equiv of it (the closest is that church on Detroit near W. 85th, I think...my brain is rot right now). They probably know where it is if they have been in the pandhandling business and if they don't (not EVERY panhandler is a con-man), you have actually done a good deed. Score one for good karma. If they aren't aggressive, that is. If they are, get a police officer.

On a side note, I had to stop by City Hall yesterday and noticed on the wall a call for Auxillary Police. What are they and what do they do to help out the city? Are they a possible part of the solution? Should we be deputizing Jim O and others who listen to the police ban so they can run out and lend a hand. Or maybe so that folks who "walk the beat," as it were (by wandering the streets of this fine 'burb) can whip out a badge and make a Auxillary Police arrest. What's up with these folks? Are there any on here?

Also, count me in for liking the idea of a City Manager. This city needs a manager, not a politician, running the day-to-day operations. Someone free of any political or election clout. No offense to Mayor George or Mr. Fitzgerald, but let's face it...how much gets done for the city as election year gets into higher and higher gear? Would be nice to know someone is minding the store while they are out.

Phil

[Shawn Juris]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that auxillary police are assigned to traffic duty (directing traffic during events) and security details (Women's pavilion maybe). Am I on the right track here?
While it makes my heart warm to think of residents directing panhandlers to LCSC (Golf Outing plans underway for July 27th at Sweetbriar by they way), maybe a brute squad recruited from our local "punch palaces" would be in order for those rougher types. What better way to utilize our natural resources?

[Phil Florian]

Shawn, thanks for the info. I am wondering if uniformed "auxillary" folks could help out in other ways? I hate to look like a police state but having an officer strolling around on foot and poking their noses where there are lots of kids, lots of panhandlers, lots of traffic, etc. would seem to pay off. To me, anyway. They sometimes have an officer doing the cross walks for the kids walking home to cross the large intersection of Hilliard and Madison. It was nice to see the officer chatting up with the kids and it provides a little stability to the area. I would guess less kids harrassing others, acting the fool and so on.

I like that Lakewood police are johnny-on-the-spot when needed but I rarely see an officer just wandering around randomly. If you can clearly expect a police officer to be somewhere else most of the time, it seems that would make for a good environment for crime. If you aren't so sure if a cop isn't going to be walking around a corner any minute, it might give folks pause. To me, anyway.

As for the "brute squad" it makes me think of "Princess Bride" and Andre the Giant ("He IS the brute squad."). But seriously, imagine a street corner of Lakewood with a lot of foot traffic. These are the spots where panhandlers are obviously going to go, right? If EVERY citizen stopped to say hi, point out where they can go for help and redirect them whenever they ask for a buck, how long do you think the panhandler would stay there? Ask their name, pass it on and so on. Do it with the utmost kindness. If they are really in need, they will find out good information. If they are just looking for a quick buck, they will go elsewhere. The predatory panhandler doesn't want conversation. They want people to give them money to shut up and go leave them alone.

If you are out of money you can eat for free nearly every day of the week in Lakewood or the near West Side of Cleveland. It involves walking or taking a bus to a different place every day but there is a lot of free food out there. Some know about it, some don't. Lakewood Christian Service Center will have an up to date list of these locations and times. I am sure the Library might, too.

I think if people engage one another more than ignore, things will vastly improve. If we just walk with blinders and hope they go away, things will not.

Maybe the Observer can post the up to date listing of free community meals for everyone to know?? I don't have a list handy but could get it lickity split. Maybe publish it on the back of every issue? Then every citizen will be armed with this information within seconds if near a drop location...which is just about everywhere. Take a page from papers like the Plain Press (don't they still do this?) or the Grapevine (again, can't remember but this kind of thing is in there from time to time).

[Kenneth Warren]

Shawn:

It’s not West Park I have in mind. Try southeast of West 140th.

Your point, if I can see it, formulate it and share it accurately, is: One need not overlook the bad apples setting up shop in our neighborhoods and apartment complexes.

I am not.

In fact, if you track the anti-social networks of the bad apples, you will see there is a degree of visitation from friends and relatives, which creates opportunities to create more chaos in the Wood, sometimes in a family feud, domestic violence register.

Think of the blow out this summer on Lakewood. That’s the new pattern.

Beachhead compounded by the chaotic kinship network.

There are chaos-agents/bad apples rolling through apartments and rolling through the schools creating de-stabilizing effects that will challenge the community’s good order.

The re-building and displacement of the poor from the Cleveland core creates these waves. You can see it in Rocky River, too.

Again this is not unique to Lakewood. But the experience is new and likewise the challenge.

Which is why I suggest a police levy and police alignment community policing strategies with the schools.

For decades the library has hired off duty Lakewood Police, and we work with the schools, family and schools on applying moral pressure to behavioral problems. It’s a rather simple model that works and creates social order.

Kenneth Warren