Historical or Hysterical?

[Valerie Molinski]

Valerie

I never said the Historical Society was buying it. You are putting a cart before a horse, no one ever said they were buying it.

Also the other parts matter, because if the city had upheld their commitments, this never would have entered the picture, in anyway shape or form.

The need arose as properties that were to be kept up and rehab, and even projects pimped to historical members in an effort to BUY votes, we cast to the wayside, it all matters. In any magic trick, and/or three card monte, never tack your eyes off of wither hand.

OR YOU WILL LOSE, again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

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You said "they are moving from the Old Stone House." So you are referring to LHS. Just wanted to make that clear. And I know you always post and insist you cannot reveal your sources, I seriously wonder if you have actually talked to ANYONE affiliate with the Historical Society. Just a guess.

Here is what I think went down:
Jim hears something.
Based on rumor and limited knowledge of actual facts of situation, Jim makes random assumption.
Jim makes cryptic post on the Deck and waits for the temperature of responses.
Jim them makes follow up post tying City/Mayor/local mailman/etc.. into it, gets everyone into a tizzy.
Someone brings up the Hospital.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

The fact remains that.. ok, someone is buying the property. So the new PRIVATE owner is trying to get it a historic designation? Or tax credits... or something to which you are taking umbrage. So I ask you again.... who cares? How does it affect you? If LHS is not buying it, then their moving is a whole OTHER topic not related to your opinion of mid century modern architecture and the effort spent to preserve it, which means it has nothing to do with the status of this building.

I feel bad for whoever IS buying this building because you are basically tying them into your beef or point you want to make here. Seriously. Let's agree that independent of that, there is no LOSE LOSE LOSE about someone buying this building and keeping it standing and someone occupying it again. And I am not engaging on the rest of it because I don't know any of the background and I don't think you actually do either. Also,no need to type your 'I know stuff the rest of you don't know" and the whataboutism that is surely to follow in response to me.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Here is how I see.

Valerie comes to the defense of people that need no defense, or are not even highlighted.

Makes even wilder assumptions than she blames others of making, and then changes topics at will after correcting others that they did.

But hell, I could be wrong on all counts.

Look how wrong I was about the Hospital closing!

I do find it odd that the Historical Society has the Carter Block, and passed on many other truly Historical buildings, and now according to your sources are moving in to that thing.

But hell, I could be wrong on all counts.

What is it that Gary Rice always says??????

Oh yeah!

PS - cheapest Jackson Pollock is worth about $100 million, just saying.

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[Valerie Molinski]

Here is how I see.

Valerie comes to the defense of people that need no defense, or are not even highlighted.

Makes even wilder assumptions than she blames others of making, and then changes topics at will after correcting others that they did.

But hell, I could be wrong on all counts.

Look how wrong I was about the Hospital closing!

I do find it odd that the Historical Society has the Carter Block, and passed on many other truly Historical buildings, and now according to your sources are moving in to that thing.

But hell, I could be wrong on all counts.

What is it that Gary Rice always says??????

Oh yeah!

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I feel like I am taking crazy pills. You said above "they are moving from the Old Stone House." YOU are my source here... albeit not a good one, admittedly. My only wrong assumption based on what you shared here is that "they" were buying it, which you so kindly clarified.

1) IT is my understanding the only reason they need to move is that the city was negligent in their up keep of the Oldest Stone House,

Your OP was about the chiro building on Detroit getting a historic designation and why it is ridiculous. Then it veered off into stuff about card games, building maintenance, and votes.

I think I am done here.

[Valerie Molinski]

Look how wrong I was about the Hospital closing!

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Look! There's the deflection. I knew you could do it! Start with one topic and veer the outrage into another.

I knew I shouldn't have said the "H" word... it's like Beetlejuice.

Not defending anyone here, Jim. It's just that your schtick is getting tired and predictable.

Back on track- I will help you. Repeat after me:

mid century modern architecture
National Historic Registry
Historical Tax Credits
Jackson Pollock

Last thoughts...I love the building, even if Jim doesn't. I hope whomever is buying it keeps it intact (exterior anyway, since I don't know what the inside looks like), and good luck to whomever occupies it! Welcome to the neighborhood.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Valerie

I, on the road, but wanted to make something clear, this "talk" comes from realtors, I know and promises made publicly by Mayor Summers.

I only know a couple people that may or may not be on the LHS, like Habers, that I think are off of it, Heidi who hasn't been on it for years and I haven't spoken to in months. Also seller is not hurt as I believe the deal closed already.

It would be unfair to bring heat, intimidation and pressure on them because of someone making baseless assumptions about my sources.

Back to driving, catch up later.

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[Robert Bobik]

Good luck Valerie, my last interaction here ended up the same way, or very close, drop a few names, mention a couple of situations to try to stoke up outrage where there isn't any. It's turned into a huge WTF.. Maybe you'll get the "it's an emotional issue" thrown your way, like was done to me. Which was amusing, considering that the Mayor is accused of that, like, all of the time here. Sad thing is, we're pumping up the number of visitors contributing..

So, move along, nothing to see here.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Good luck Valerie, my last interaction here ended up the same way, or very close, drop a few names, mention a couple of situations to try to stoke up outrage where there isn't any. It's turned into a huge WTF.. Maybe you'll get the "it's an emotional issue" thrown your way, like was done to me. Which was amusing, considering that the Mayor is accused of that, like, all of the time here. Sad thing is, we're pumping up the number of visitors contributing..

So, move along, nothing to see here.

Robert

No one dropping a few names. As Val was guessing who might have told me I thought it was unfair to get other people blamed or singled out. My sources were not on the LHS at least not that I know, I have never been to a meeting, and found it at best an odd group that passes over some of the most historical buildings for some of the least historical for decades.

I said exactly where my sources were, realtors, it was a realty deal, get it. And the Mayor's public statements, get it.

The city, especially since the FitzGerald regime has become a city where people are afraid to talk, because of retribution. How can you fault or blame someone when you see businesses sued, residents harassed, and some fined, refined and fined again.

So Robert comes in, makes some blind accusations, mentions no names while blaming others for doing it, and leaves.

I'm not finding fault with anything by the hypocrisy of your actions. But I get it, it is OK for you, but not for others...

What you do not realize, there is always something to see, because we can be judged by our words, our actions, and that always leads to Observations.

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[Jim O'Bryan]

Look how wrong I was about the Hospital closing!

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Last thoughts...I love the building, even if Jim doesn't. I hope whomever is buying it keeps it intact (exterior anyway, since I don't know what the inside looks like), and good luck to whomever occupies it! Welcome to the neighborhood.

Val

Again you are confusing me. I am one of the few people that thought the Mayor has the right to renegotiate any contract the city has, even with LHA, and thereby the hospital. I am merely the one saying do not lie about it. I know hard to parse that one.

Mayor, is like a king in Ohio I can deal with it. Lying government, not a good thing for the serfs.

You like things I don't, wow what a hard concept to understand, but damn I agree with you again. Variety makes the city good, and is the spice of life.

Historical designation, not evil, I can cope. But can I find it mildly amusing when it is pushed through in such a way as to make it look like the keystones cops trying to get through a doorway? Well maybe you do not think it is funny, I found it hilarious.

No eyes were poked out in this. Again historical? of Hysterical? I find it hysterical.

Pollock? say what you will, have you ever seen on in person? I am not sure they are worth $140 million or even $100 million, but they sure are not a one story flat roofed building that needs repair on Detroit Avenue. But then I am not sure what is worth saving on Detroit any longer. I often question what is really "historical" left in this city. And yes, I thought it was just as funny to save the Curtis Block instead of leveling it when they level the hospital.

But that gets us back to my tastes against others, which I seem to have much more leeway then you let on to.

Now I do not have the inside information like you do, talk over dinner etc. I am not privy to any grand plans, I just sit back, and watch and make Observations, as it would seem you do to. I can accept that without badgering you for your sources which it would seem the new sport in this town, as at least 15 people have asked for my sources on this debacle I find funny as any Keystone Cop short film.

Here is some entertainment for you, Robert and others, and please no running with pointed objects...

"Who the Fuck is Jackson Pollock" a little over an hour, but a great documentary.


And another short film about our civic leaders.


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[Robert Bobik]

It used to be entertaining, but it has devolved to delusional. You really need to examine the way you treat people, Jim. I hope it is a much more adult manner than what you present here.

[Jim O'Bryan]

It used to be entertaining, but it has devolved to delusional. You really need to examine the way you treat people, Jim. I hope it is a much more adult manner than what you present here.

Robert

Again, you come in attack once, twice, three times, four times, and point fingers at how I treat people.

All you have added to this discussion is hate, and negativity. period.

At least Val has added a little flavor and her opinion on the subject at hand, some of which I agree with some I don't. I call it a typical discussion.

Again, I find nothing wrong with your post, your words, your thoughts you own them, but the hypocrisy is staggering.

I bet you didn't even watch the movies.

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[Jim O'Bryan]

Robert

I realized it might have been the title of the film "Who the Fuck is Jackson Pollock" that you saw as an unfair attack of Valerie using Jackson Pollack in the conversation. Nothing is farther from the truth.

The film underlines many of Val's points. The story behind the film. A truck driver buys a painting she thinks is ugly as a joke for a friend at a yard sale. She gives it to her fried who gives it back as it doesn't fit in her double wide trailer and it is ugly. She then sets it our for sale in her front yard, and a local art teacher comes by and say, "That looks like a Jackson Pollock." The truck driver says, "Who the Fuck is Jackson Pollock?" and she asks around. As of the time of the film, the $5 paining that everyone hated has been valued as much as $140 million dollars, if she can get it authenticated. Now the art world in New York thumbs their noses at the truck driver and offers many reasons why it is not a Pollock. At the same time, there are two thumb prints from Jackson Pollock on the painting. Paint on the painting has been traced back to Pollck's studio and matches. One critic pointed out their is spray paint that never existed when Jackson was alive, yet they also find some of it in his studio, on the floor, and the studio has not been used since Jackson died. The New York Art World claims every piece has been cataloged and accounted for. 5 years ago a shop owner turned up a Pollock that was traded by Jackson for two cases of beer, now valued at $110 million. A garage shows up with a Pollock painted on the back of a tire sign, now worth $115 million. Yet the NYC Art world continues to say the woman's painting is not a Pollock, though she has been offered $40 million for it. She continues to hang on to the painting and fight for authentication which could make it the most valuable Pollock in the world.

So back to Val's point, and the point I was agreeing with and making with the film. I find the building not worth saving, others including Val do. Who knows? As Val points out, only time will tell.

Please continue your attack on me, if that was not the reason for questioning how I treat people.

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[Robert Bobik]

So is it one, two, three or four times I have stated how I feel you treat people? Hate? No hate here, just observing. Pointing out rudeness is not hate. Really, I don't know why I'm bothering. You are right. I am wrong. I've been an Observer supporter for quite a while. Many good things brought to light here. I think I just need to reconsider interacting. The tactics now employed in what you called 'just discussion' used to be criticized as not a way to exchange ideas, information or discuss disagreements. If you think attacking at every possible moment is called for, then, cool. I disagree.

[Robert Bobik]

I didn't see your explanation of the film. I was typing the above. That was actually interesting. Thank you

[Jim O'Bryan]

I didn't see your explanation of the film. I was typing the above. That was actually interesting. Thank you

Robert

There is a similar but shorter documentary about a new found DaVinci, everyone in the art world claimed it was not. Art forensic experts have found a thumb print on a DaVinci charcoal published in a book in the picture that matches one on the back of the new piece. Yet them claim, it is not a DaVinci.

Communities like art, and buildings are very much in the eye of the beholder and how we like to envision them. It is all perceptions and Observations in truth neither is absolute or owned by anyone. As I am sure you have witnessed since 2007 I will argue my point, but as long as it is not people lying, covering up, misleading, or hurting others I pull my punches. Or if I know they can take it. Val and I butt heads often as she tries to keep me honest.

The Val conversation turned to hurting people, though I will give her the benefit of the doubt and say she didn't know. Also Val comes with a wealth of background knowledge, and I will leave it at that for this discussion on the board. So 1) I respect her opinions, and two I look for the nuggets of hidden gold within them. People in this town have been hurt for expressing their opinions, by the City Administration, and their supporters, One of many reasons I do not mention names. Another reason is the names in this piece wouldn't matter. Realtors passing my table at the restaurant potentially jealous over the deal, or for other reasons mention what is happening. You then watch it go on the Docket, come up for discussions and more rumors swirl. Talking about it, having fun with it, affected nothing. No one lost an eye, no animals were hurt, the sun came up.

My post really has more to do with the many historical buildings that have been allowed to slip through the fingers of the Lakewood Historical Society some truly amazing pieces of Lakewood History while they sat motionlessness. Some offered for free, yet not even a flinch. Then suddenly the historical world is abuzz with a chance to "push this prime example of..." through the historical designation process. I just had to smile. Then the realtors enter and start talking the deal. All I could do was laugh, and instantly it became hysterical, and I posted the photo, and the discussion begins. Had I wished ill will to anyone in the deal, I could have blown it out of the water with all sorts of adjectives, but why.

Which gets us to the Observations on the deal, the conversation and the Val Molinski post. It takes a lot to get Val on the Deck, yet she is always welcomed and her words garner the same respect as every other member here, which is to say a lot. First it is a pleasant discussion about the building, and tastes, and tastes are nearly hard to argue with, as they are really personal tastes. Another example is I do not care for Frank Lloyd Wright homes, I feel while historical significant as part of a movement and period, they are more like a name people love to throw around as it is easy to remember not truly because they love the designs. But them came the nugget of gold, questioning sources? Hmmmmmmmmm Why? She certainly knows much more about this deal then I ever could, so why question it. At the same time I am questioned through various sources about my sources, just poking here and there. Why? The deal was never upset, the gift will continue, the designation will be pushed through. Why? Damn I would hate to think retribution.

Which is why, I had to pull my car over yesterday on my way out west to make it clear, just reading smoke signals on the street, just listening to realtors. Funny, only as Val mentioned the hospital, the straw that broke the camel's back on the hospital, was the guy that delivered clean bedding and towels mentioning to me over a beer, Lakewood only took out a six-month contract, while all the others took a full year.

This has gone on too long, and my morning breakfast crew has entered.

Robert thank you for your posts, even if to call me out. They all mean something somewhere to someone, even if it is getting steam off your chest.

Val, always a pleasure.

peace/love

[Valerie Molinski]

My post really has more to do with the many historical buildings that have been allowed to slip through the fingers of the Lakewood Historical Society some truly amazing pieces of Lakewood History while they sat motionlessness. Some offered for free, yet not even a flinch. Then suddenly the historical world is abuzz with a chance to "push this prime example of..." through the historical designation process. I just had to smile. Then the realtors enter and start talking the deal. All I could do was laugh, and instantly it became hysterical, and I posted the photo, and the discussion begins. Had I wished ill will to anyone in the deal, I could have blown it out of the water with all sorts of adjectives, but why.

Which gets us to the Observations on the deal, the conversation and the Val Molinski post. It takes a lot to get Val on the Deck, yet she is always welcomed and her words garner the same respect as every other member here, which is to say a lot. First it is a pleasant discussion about the building, and tastes, and tastes are nearly hard to argue with, as they are really personal tastes. Another example is I do not care for Frank Lloyd Wright homes, I feel while historical significant as part of a movement and period, they are more like a name people love to throw around as it is easy to remember not truly because they love the designs. But them came the nugget of gold, questioning sources? Hmmmmmmmmm Why? She certainly knows much more about this deal then I ever could, so why question it. At the same time I am questioned through various sources about my sources, just poking here and there. Why? The deal was never upset, the gift will continue, the designation will be pushed through. Why? Damn I would hate to think retribution.

Val, always a pleasure.

peace/love

Here's why I question your sources... and it isn't even really questioning them, but whatever. You purport to have inside info ABOUT the Historical Society and its future plans related to this building, and the start of this post is where you belittled someone's efforts to save/reno/etc??.... I think asking if you actually TALKED to anyone affiliated with LHS is a valid question. Why? Because for lack of a better term... you often talk "out of your ass." And in many cases, it can be harmful or damaging. And lo and behold, it turns out to be merely scuttlebutt and chatter from realtors? You have got to be kidding me. I really think this is the wrong use of this platform. You are getting people riled about a building that is being privately purchased by someone and being renovated and occupied by someone else. Honestly, if I was the purchaser, I would be PISSED that anyone involved in the deal is even talking to you about it, because they had to know you would take this info and turn it into a sh*tshow like this thread.

And I don't know anything about this deal, or that thing, or the other. I am really tired of you hinting at that and I have previously responded to this accusation. I won't explain again why you are wrong because it doesn't seem to matter because if I contribute on here in anyway, you will continue to twist my words and intentions, like you always do. It is predictable and tiring. I contribute my own observations and opinions on the topics that I choose to engage in. So, enough with that BS, please.

But one last time, back to the topic at hand:
-WHY IS THIS SUCH AN ISSUE that you feel the need to make this post about it?
-You say that someone is buying the building and trying to get it a 'designation.' What designation? Local? National? You never make that clear. And if you knew the differences between the two, because there are protections/guidelines at one level and not necessarily the other. And it's a process, so I would love to hear what people mean when something is getting "PUSHED" through.
-IS IT a designation or actually just state or federal historical tax credit money for a renovation?
-LHS is a private? entity. They can do what they want.
-Do you even know how LHS works? They don't go around buying and saving buildings or being the arbiter of what gets a designation. They are facilitators and keepers.
-Why would there be a NEED to push through a designation for someone like LHS, or anyone for that matter, to occupy it? Maybe it is just cheap office space?
-Curtis Block gets rehabbed, LHS doesn't own it...maybe LHS wasn't even offered space in it. It's prime real estate when it is done so it wont be cheap space.
-And if it is getting some sort of designation, I am still waiting to hear how this affects us on any local level and why you are so riled about it.