New Rules For The Deck Needed? Discussion

[Jim O'Bryan]

JOB: Admittedly, I don't hold a candle to the history you and many have with Ken Warren. Your background on him as you shared prompted me to wonder what would Ken say, if prompted by your question. I found it in a 2008 thread deliberating the same subject:

"In an open civic communication channel that aspires, as I believe the LO does, to build the community's capacity for common learning, understanding, judgment and commitment, the best moderation is self-moderation.

So I will propose an order of self-moderation rooted in a common commitment to understanding, along with consideration, fairness and respect for another person.

Such self-moderation involves speaking to issues, to differences in views, to differences in relationships, to differences in content.

Self-moderation avoids labeling other people and making personal attacks.

Self-moderation might possibly reduce the levels of communication directed to a person with the intention to annoy, disqualify, humiliate, infuriate, intimidate, mislead, offend, or vilify."

More on that thread here: http://lakewoodobserver.com/deck/viewto ... engagement

JOB, thank you for encouraging me to seek out Ken's thinking. It reminded of what was my first impression of Ken, which is we both value opinions and mutual respect equally, and one doesn't trump the other because the ends somehow justify the means.

Jim

I agree with your post and have no doubt where it was rooted. But Ken would not have stopped the person going over the top, he would have just stopped speaking with him.

In the end you are correct self moderation is always the key, to life and here on the Deck. Bot those that cannot offer us all insight into themselves. I would say and I am sure Ken would agree, what they show us is far more important than what they said.

I am giving a small talk about Ken at the University of Buffalo where he has given most of his poetry, you should come up.

As for the Observer, and the project Ken was but one of many that made this project a reality. Mike Deneen was there from day one, Steve Davis, Heidi Hilty, DL Meckes, Jeff Endress, Steve Gross and Tara, the Farrises, Vince O'Keefe, and others. The project is far different than the one Ken proposed, the city would have hated Ken's idea, as they would have hated my idea. It was the work of everyone, compromising and taking chances that made this possible, and continues to make it possible.

Thanks for the conversation.

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[Brian Essi]

I think we need to define "personal attack". Here is one definition:

"A personal attack is committed when a person substitutes abusive remarks for evidence when attacking another person's claim or claims. This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because the attack is directed at the person making the claim and not the claim itself."

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim Kenney

You think it is failing? Bot working?

Members of Build Lakewood, Save Lakewood Hospital, Indifferent, followers of both, and many active users of the Deck pulling together for tomorrow.

RESPECT

While members of the Deck have shown a lack of respect at times, the Deck has never shown a lack of respect for the poster, or person willing to share.

The secret is, words are just a small part. Look at presentations, nuance, style and grace.

Build the file on the poster, then figure what is being said.

Another analogy I have used is Siskel and Eibert, I hated their movie reviews, but if Eibert hated a film, I would usually find it worth seeing.

Deck posters, like all of life, are scales for for all of us to measure the community chops as Ken would say. Chops being the ability to give and take, wrestle over ideas and information.

FWIW

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[Brian Essi]

So the evidence established that this thread was largely about a couple of bad apples who were interfering with the enjoyment of the rest.

It would seem that no matter what the letter of existing rules or new rules, there will always be those that violate the spirit and purpose of the Deck and it "rules".

I admire that Jim and whomever else who may be lawful owners of the LO/Deck have patience in dealing with those who abuse their privileges (not rights) to participate on the Deck.

At the same time, may I suggest that to the extent the Deck is an "Observer" brand and part of a larger private business with concomitant good will and value, it seems that the owners may deal with anyone causing damage to that brand just like any other business deals with unruly and disrespectful patrons who are bad for "business."

[Dan Alaimo]

So the evidence established that this thread was largely about a couple of bad apples who were interfering with the enjoyment of the rest.

It would seem that no matter what the letter of existing rules or new rules, there will always be those that violate the spirit and purpose of the Deck and it "rules".

I admire that Jim and whomever else who may be lawful owners of the LO/Deck have patience in dealing with those who abuse their privileges (not rights) to participate on the Deck.

At the same time, may I suggest that to the extent the Deck is an "Observer" brand and part of a larger private business with concomitant good will and value, it seems that the owners may deal with anyone causing damage to that brand just like any other business deals with unruly and disrespectful patrons who are bad for "business."

Just before I clicked on this thread, I was thinking that since Jim posted the new rules (anyone else catch the Bill Maher reference?), the Deck has been hitting on all cylinders. We are talking about how to continue that without restricting conversations. My opinion is, it might mean an occasional oil change.

[Brian Essi]

So the evidence established that this thread was largely about a couple of bad apples who were interfering with the enjoyment of the rest.

It would seem that no matter what the letter of existing rules or new rules, there will always be those that violate the spirit and purpose of the Deck and it "rules".

I admire that Jim and whomever else who may be lawful owners of the LO/Deck have patience in dealing with those who abuse their privileges (not rights) to participate on the Deck.

At the same time, may I suggest that to the extent the Deck is an "Observer" brand and part of a larger private business with concomitant good will and value, it seems that the owners may deal with anyone causing damage to that brand just like any other business deals with unruly and disrespectful patrons who are bad for "business."

Just before I clicked on this thread, I was thinking that since Jim posted the new rules (anyone else catch the Bill Maher reference?), the Deck has been hitting on all cylinders. We are talking about how to continue that without restricting conversations. My opinion is, it might mean an occasional oil change.

I don't watch much TV and I don't have HBO??
What is "the Bill Maher reference"

[Dan Alaimo]

I don't watch much TV and I don't have HBO??
What is "the Bill Maher reference"

I don't either. I catch Maher on podcast (audio only). One of his signature bits is a segment called, "New Rules," which is basically a series of rants. Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I don't, but he is always interesting and funny.

[Corey Rossen]

I don’t think anyone is trying to shut down the Deck, maybe just bring to attention some of the many hypocrisies that occur and go unnoticed, or ignored, by those with Kool Aid on the Deck. It seems the Kool Aid drinkers preach about freedom of speech yet are the ones to violate those rights to others. What the Kool Aid drinkers really mean is a freedom for them to do as they please and for the others to go away and stop interfering with their reign. They seems to want to silent, or stifle outside noise so that they can raise their own raucous...and thus limit others' freedom of speech. Pretty ironic, huh - unnoticed or ignored? Either way, the preachers are not hearing themselves as they silence the others. More irony, I know. They seem to conveniently weave and bob with their use, and knowledge, of power and control. These hypocrisies are having lasting effects on the Deck and probably the upcoming election. Treatment is definitely different if you are not knighted or anointed to the Round Table or reign supreme in the eyes of the beholders…of the Deck.

With a little research on the Deck, look what a person can find. So, though I do not know if kate e parker is on the Deck or not (no one has answered if she has been banned), or where she might be, I do know that she is not seated at the Round Table. If she were at the Round Table, I don't think anyone would be so offended with her words - they don't seem to be when they come from other people. I think I found some people that may be at the Table, though, or at least those who are above the rules…and have been for some time now.

BULLSHIT

Fuck

bullshit

shit

shit

shit

"trick shit"

fuck

Fuck

asshole

asshole

bullshit

And lastly, a picture of Jim and kate e parker, posted by Jim O’Bryan on the Deck. Maybe they are at Light Up Lakewood discussing who is on the Naughty List. Maybe they are discussing why kate e parker doesn’t have a seat at the Round Table. Maybe they are talking about how easily it is to black list some members while overlooking so many others. Maybe that is why Jim seems to be laughing hardest, he steers this ship.

Jim and kate e parker.jpg (453.16 KiB) Viewed 2091 times

[cmager]

Mr. Rossen, wow that there is some real professional victimhood you got going there. Bitter, even, in light of the effort it took you to create that post. Remember that part about adding value to the discussion, pushing the discussion forward, focussing on ideas? Try it sometime.

[Jim O'Bryan]

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/v ... =7&t=23192


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[Corey Rossen]

Mr. Rossen, wow that there is some real professional victimhood you got going there. Bitter, even, in light of the effort it took you to create that post. Remember that part about adding value to the discussion, pushing the discussion forward, focussing on ideas? Try it sometime.

Thank you. Actually, it does push the discussion forward....but maybe not in the direction you like.

And a special thank you for your focus and picture perfect portrayal of the "ignoring the hypocrisy" portion.

[Corey Rossen]

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/v ... =7&t=23192


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Deflection.

[Jim O'Bryan]

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/v ... =7&t=23192


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Deflection.

No actually posted in wrong thread.

It will be deleted in this one along with the comments, and drift.

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[Corey Rossen]

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/v ... =7&t=23192


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Deflection.

No actually posted in wrong thread.

It will be deleted in this one along with the comments, and drift.

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What drift?

[Jim O'Bryan]

What drift?

Corey

I just read the rules you agreed to when you signed up. Maybe you should.

Or the new ones we are working on.

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