New Rules For The Deck Needed? Discussion

[Jim O'Bryan]

So everybody, read it, take a breath, read it again, and let's get back talking over the fence instead of lobbing grenades.

Dan

Thanks for being one of the many that have helped with this new concept, still being kicked around.

Nothing will be deleted, it will be moved to a cesspool for lack of a better term. We are trying to decide public or not. You do not want to have libelous items posted, but you do want to hold people accountable for those items. People have a right to talk about things, and people have a right to hold people accountable. It is a slippery slope.

New organization
Advisors really want to go back to one huge forum, and sorting topics after a month or two as they cool off. It seems like an idea that could have promise but is labor intensive.

Old Topics and Database
We will freeze them, as we start the new Deck, if it happens. All intact, in the order we all are familiar with. We have done this before. We will merge old in with new as we can, the entire group is volunteer, and keep the original before the break intact forever. We have been doing this with our old Dbases and just found another original backup from the early days to merge in to complete the history.

We are bringing in actual blogging for Lakewoodites, so someone like Brian Essi, Lori Allen, Corey Rossen or anyone can post a running column without direct responses. Like the digital paper. Responses will still be on the Deck. We have had a couple elected officials ask if this was possible, and we have worked on it. They are currently using it in the Heights.

Any other ideas, let us know.

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[Kate McCarthy]

We are bringing in actual blogging for Lakewoodites, so someone like Brian Essi, Lori Allen, Corey Rossen or anyone can post a running column without direct responses. Like the digital paper. Responses will still be on the Deck. We have had a couple elected officials ask if this was possible, and we have worked on it. They are currently using it in the Heights.

This is a great idea. I have often wanted to link to research and have not because the threads have been hijacked by nonsense. I would hope the capacity to quote blog posts would be provided in the forums to allow for discussion to remain. Perhaps this alone would eliminate the need for some of the new proposed rules.

[Patrick Wadden]

Good stuff. Thanks Jim.

[Lori Allen _]

May I ask whom the elected officials were that requested the blogs and what the purpose was? I will go out on a limb here and guess the mayor and maybe one councilman. I will also go out on another (very small) limb here and suspect that the reason for the request was that some of my running threads about various topics do not portray some elected officials in the most positive light. In my opinion, it is my right to call out elected officials when I feel they are doing their jobs poorly.

I would advise caution in regards to this major overhaul of the Deck. While some changes are needed, some of these seem rather drastic. In my opinion, sticking someone in a blog could be taking away someone's freedom of expression and freedom of speech, especially when people cannot respond.

This was one of the only news outlets in the area where the community was not controlled by the mayor and his company. I believe they know that some of us are on the brink of discovering things happening in the city. Please exercise caution in regards to this.

In summary, please do not allow what I suspect are the mayor and his company to control this great project. That would take Lakewood down a very dark path, in my opinion. Please tell me the mayor does not now control the Deck and is not the Lord of the Lakewood Observer now as well.

[Dan Alaimo]

I'll leave it to JOB to explain, but maybe I can talk you down a little.
I don't think anyone will be "stuck" in a blog, but of all the posters on the Deck, I can't think of anyone who could make better use of it than you.
I'm not sure of the particulars, but I'll bet there will be a way to link to a blog item from the main message board.
When JOB mentioned officials requesting it, he also mentioned the "Heights" by which I assume he meant Cleveland Heights and not some other heights.

I see most of it as additive and the only thing subtracted is the unproductive nastiness that needs to be reined in.

[Bridget Conant]

Dan

I think allowing people to post to a blog would be interesting, and I'd bet a lot of people here would enjoy doing so once they saw how it works and the potential audience.

However, I'm not seeing where that would cut down on the trolling here on the Deck. Absent banning people or deleting posts, you will still have a few people determined to undermine this site who will post anything they can to distract and annoy.

But therein lies the problem - you ban them or delete posts and they'll be all over town complaining and accusing the Deck of bias and censorship. If you leave them, you'll hear how "crazy" it is on the Deck. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

But there's a bigger picture to consider. It's clear to many of us what's going on. As Jared Denman aptly pointed out, it's a concerted effort to drive readers and posters away from the Deck prior to the election.

Readers here need to understand that. There is a lawsuit that hopes to shut down the Observer. The board is overrun with trolls. These aren't isolated events - its all part of the attempt to silence anyone who criticizes the mayor, city council, or the plan to close the hospital.

Whatever your feelings about the hospital, you should be very concerned about what's going on in this town. It's not right, it's not American, and it needs to be stopped.

Don't let them silence the Observer, because YOUR voice is next.

[Lori Allen _]

I really hope that not everyone that stands up and points out the mayor's mistakes is put into a blog. I also really hope that this is not a way to silence those of us that do. How many people will actually go in and read these blogs?

I feel that Bridget is spot on when she says that the trolling could be a way to divert attention from the election. Putting Brian Essi, I, and certain others into a blog is probably exactly what the mayor and certain "elected officials" would favor, I suspect.

It is interesting timing that when leaders can't answer questions or it is being shown that Summers is doing an evidently poor job, that this suddenly comes out. Maybe just a coincidence.

I really hope that Jim and the Observer folks really study this carefully and its possible long-term ramifications before it is implemented. It could very well change the project forever, and maybe not in a good way. I don't feel that those of us that bring up mayoral mistakes and possible wrongdoings should be separated from the mainstream Deck. A handful of posters causing trouble should not constitute a major overhaul of the Deck. At the risk of sounding redundant, I will mention Bridget's comment again that it may be a concerted effort to divert attention from the Deck and the election. After all, this is probably exactly what Summers & Co. want.

On the surface, it would appear that City Hall is feeling some heat and might be getting really nervous in regards to what is being posted on here.

Summers appears to know someone at every media outlet in the area. Please don't allow the mayor and a few "elected officials" to negatively impact the Observer project and the Deck. It is the only independent, citizen-driven media outlet in the area. Please don't allow the Observer and Lakewood to go down a dark path.

[Michael Deneen]

The "dedicated blog" notion could be OK for regular LO contributors, but would be horrendous if given to any government official.
Such a blog would hand this City Hall YET ANOTHER media outlet where it can spread its propaganda in an unfiltered, unchallenged manner.

People like Jen Pae and Jim Kenny stopped posting here because they got called out on their numerous lies and misleading statements.
That's why City Hall has resorted to measures like:

*the fake newspaper
*using the water bill for propaganda
*creating a fake "Lakewood Community" Facebook page, which is moderated by Jen Pae
*giving a City Hall job to the moderator of Lakewood Citizen, thereby making the Citizen another government instrument

I don't think the Observer should hand City Hall another megaphone.

[Bridget Conant]

Mike Deneen wrote:

Such a blog would hand this City Hall YET ANOTHER media outlet where it can spread its propaganda in an unfiltered, unchallenged manner.

I agree. City Hall already has the PD, the Lakewood Citizen, the "Ohio Neighborhood News," and numerous other methods of communicating their message to citizens, like the water bill. They have the money and the power.

The average citizen has no such resources. The Observer has given the rest of us a means by which to have our voices heard.

Don't let City Hall and the powers that be silence opposing viewpoints. It's un-American.

[cmager]

I don't think the Observer should hand City Hall another megaphone.

I agree with Mr. Deneen.

[todd vainisi]

The deck is broken and a cesspool right now so I welcome attempts to clean it up and make it a good tool for our Lakewood community again.

I think the blog ideas are fantastic. I completely disagree with the notion that our elected officials should not be able to voice their opinion or explain themselves here. In fact, I specifically want them to and I feel they should be given a way to respond without having to have egg thrown on them after each response. And folks, please don't pretend that the city people who have dared to appear on these boards have been afforded even the respect you would give a stranger. If I were an elected official, or someone working for the city, I would post NOTHING here. It's completely hostile, but the hostility is from the same handful of people over and over. And these handful of people have robbed me (and many others) of the opportunity to hear rebuttal from the people that know the most about what is going on (true, false, half-true, fantasy, whatever - I still want to hear from the people on the inside). So, a blog where they could voice their plans/intentions/opinions would be a good thing from where I sit. The regular deck opposition can still use deck posts to tear apart everything found in the blogs, it just limits their ability to heckle them directly.

But it works great the other way too. I would love to read a blog that Brian Essi keeps without slogging through Corey's endless derisive retorts and sidetracking comments. Lori's grass and trash post would work great as a running blog, same with her graffiti posts.

Also, just for the record, I don't believe for a second that kate e and Corey are in cahoots with city hall or are working on some anti-hospital agenda. They are just killing time on a message board where they are able to stir up a lot of poop and get people all upset. Anyone who is irked by their comments is merely providing entertainment for them.

Unfortunately, it sounds like that has bit him in the butt a little bit because his online behavior has now had some real world ramifications (the alleged defamatory calls to his charity participants). Now you might think that's simply, in the words of Malcolm X, the chickens come home to roost. But it sucks for Corey's charity. Adults using their real names should not need to be moderated like this, but, alas bans are a needed deterrent.

I almost would blame the Observer or Observation Deck for this situation - the requirement to use our real names here combined with the lack of decisive moderation feels a bit dangerous to me (yes, you have to protect people from themselves). Sometimes I fear for Lori, she pushes the envelope pretty hard and her real name is attached to it. People already have trained themselves to behave a certain way online without fear of consequence, because of the expected anonymity. It can be tough to remember that it behooves us to behave differently without the mask of a username.

Anyway, that's my 10 cents.

[Dan Alaimo]

I really hope that not everyone that stands up and points out the mayor's mistakes is put into a blog.

Lori, you make it sound like a prison sentence. That's not the way blogs work - they are voluntary.
If they are open to everybody, that means everybody, which includes City Hall denizens. The message board remains as a most visible way to respond. It might result in more direct criticism than we have now.
And a disclaimer: I had nothing to do with the blog concept- I read about it when you did, and I don't know exactly what Jim has in mind apart from what I've read here. But I think it is a great idea. I might even start one for myself, and I recommend it to you.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I really hope that not everyone that stands up and points out the mayor's mistakes is put into a blog.

Lori, you make it sound like a prison sentence. That's not the way blogs work - they are voluntary.
If they are open to everybody, that means everybody, which includes City Hall denizens. The message board remains as a most visible way to respond. It might result in more direct criticism than we have now.
And a disclaimer: I had nothing to do with the blog concept- I read about it when you did, and I don't know exactly what Jim has in mind apart from what I've read here. But I think it is a great idea. I might even start one for myself, and I recommend it to you.

The blogging feature is built into our front end software not used on the Deck. So it is tied in with our news feed, and connections to other media. Heights have used it for years, we did not like Blogs, simply because it allows people off the hook in accountability and discussing their posts.

However, as we are going through grouping conversations about hospitals and schools, it will be amazing to be able to read Essi start to finish. The discussion of the new schools, and how they turned pout will be a showcase for community input. Even the discussion of millions and millions spent already downtown, when put together in a folder, shows so much in a much cleaner easier to understand light.


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[james fitzgibbons]

Since Jim brought up Corey's name if there is anyone that can explain what Corey's mission is on this deck I would be very interested to know what it is.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Since Jim brought up Corey's name if there is anyone that can explain what Corey's mission is on this deck I would be very interested to know what it is.

James

To hold people accountable.

In his way.

I think.


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