Full Day Kindergarten: Why or why not in Lakewood?

[Suzie Dean]

This became a problem when they were looking for a "room parent" who helps out with activities, fund raising, etc., as they didn't have a whole bunch of moms or dads who hang out at home during the day.

I have to say, that I could only wish that being a stay at home mom meant that i could hang out at home during the day. My alarm goes off at 6:30 every morning and I don't sit down until the kids go to bed. I get up and get the kids ready for school, drive one to the middle school, come home and walk two to Grant and spend the morning with the other two at home. I try to get my cleaning done in the morning before we make lunch and walk to school to drop off one more for afternoon kindergarten. I go home and try to get any running around done that I have to do because it is so much easier with one child instead of five of them. Before you know it... its time to do the same lap that we did this morning only now we are picking up kids. Go home, have a snack, do homework, cook dinner, oh and did I mention we can't forget PSR, Gymnastics, Paper Route and other after school activities. The high light of my day of "hanging out" at home is when I get adult conversation from the neighbor or maybe even a shower first thing in the morning. You know its the little things that make us stay at home moms happy.

But back to the all day kindergarten thing... I could not imagine having my kids in all day kindergarten because of a couple of reasons.

Its less time that I get with them.
If kids are in kindergarten all day then when do they get to "be kids?"
When do they get to run around and laugh have a good time. This society forces kids to grow up fast all ready...we don't need to push it even more with all day kindergarten. Just my opinion.

[Phil Florian]

Suzie, I am not sure why you felt the need to describe your day in full per this discussion but it is clear you are a busy person, that is for sure. But for me it is an enviable position and I am envious that you have the financial freedom to do that. Sure it is tough and busy but for many of us, we have all the same responsibilties to run our kids to school, run errands, keep the house up and so on but do so on top of one (or in my case, two) jobs. So in the matter of who would PROBABLY make a more available room parent, I would say a stay-at-home parent would be more likely than a working one. See, enviable and wonderful.

But as you said, back on topic.

I do agree that all day kindergarten, if run like a gulag, would be horrible. I think the model I like is the one Jeff intimated, the one where we have school for half a day and day care for the rest. Since my child HAS to be in the care of someone all day because I am not well off enough to support my wife at home or vice versa, it would be nice for me (and I am sure other working parents) to know where your child is and that they will have quality care in the same place all day. I would love to pay for that, too. I know St. James had this when my daughter went there and it would be nice if Lakewood City Schools did, too. For parents that don't have the means, look to other non-school programs to help out, such as vouchers that some parents are able to get when working low income jobs.

That would be so cool.

[Suzie Dean]

Phil,

I have a question for you ...

Are you envious of the fact that my kids wear hand me downs, that we shop at Aldi's, that the shoes they wear are from Target and Wal Mart and not the name brands from the mall? Are you envious of the fact that my kids don't wear name brand clothes? Are you envious of the fact that our family does not drive brand new cars? Are you envious of the fact that we live in a rental? Are you envious of the fact that we don't go out to a restaurant to eat as often as we would like? Are you envious that I refuse to pay for a hair cut? That I shop the clearance racks? That I start my Christmas shopping in January?

These are just a few of the sacrifices that our family has made so I can stay home. I promise you that we don't live a care free financial life. I'm sorry that I felt the need to describe my day in detail because you feel all us stay at home moms HANG OUT AT HOME ALL DAY.

[DougHuntingdon]

We need a button on here to nominate a post as post of the year!

Doug

[Stan Austin]

Suzie and Phil---- I've been following this thread with great interest even though I have no kids. And, through other threads I have read both of your posts to my enrichment.

I have only the highest regard for the high intellect and community values that both of you bring to our Observation Deck.

Maybe your passionate views on which we are in agreement on the good things in Lakewood might have gotten diverted a bit?

Keep up the good discussion and relish our individualities.

Stan

[Charyn Compeau]

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[Danielle Masters]

although you missed the part about only shopping at thrift stores for yourself

Too funny. You could also add not buying clothes for yourself for many years. And don't forget that a vacation means camping in the backyard or spending the day at the beach. I know that like Suzie I feel frustrated when I hear terms like "hanging out" at home. I often have felt that people look down on me because I choose to stay home or that they tell me how lucky I am when they live in a house twice as big as my rental and drive cars that cost more than double both of ours.

I often think that the sacrifices that stay at home moms make get over looked. People assume that our husbands make tons of money, yeah right, and that we get to live like queens. I am not bitter that we do without material things because I have the opportunity to be with my kids all the time and that's all that matters in my life.

My big frustration on the topic of all day kindergarten is that because people have children and for whatever reasons cannot be home with them, then think the government should then step in and take care of them. That's not right. Our schools struggle now to provide for kids education and often times to care for them in other ways. Also I should add that for truly poor people there are daycare vouchers and in Lakewood public school there are fabulous social workers in the buildings to assist parents in accessing available services.

One more thing that some may not know, the volunteers that come in during the day really help the teachers out by reading to children and assisting with other classroom work.

[Lynn Farris]

I lost my post earlier, so here I go again taking an unpopular view.

Like Jeff, it has been a while since I had children in kindergarten. My children did have the opportunity to attend all day kindergarten. What amazed me was that my children learned in kindergarten what I learned in 1st grade. My children came out of kindergarten reading chapter books and the first grade teachers expected that. I'm sure it has gotten even more competitive in the generation since they attended kindergarten. Maybe I had the ability to teach them to read this well, but I thought my time was better spent being a good mother and supporting what the teacher was teaching.

I wanted my children to not be behind when they entered 1st grade. I think that is a huge obstacle to start your children behind. If you look at the "prep" schools, Hawken, University School, Hathaway Brown, Lake Ridge Academy they all have full day kindergartens. That is because they know it is important. Joan is right we do have two societies. Making this a "pay to learn" which Jeff suggests is really what we have now. The rich who can afford to send their children to schools like these where they even teach foreign language in kindergarten and the middle class and poor.

Maybe I'm swayed by the fact that my mother was a preschool teacher. She spent hours every night making sure that she had a well balanced program for her children every day using various methods for her children to learn. She planned, music, art, free play, reading etc. I know of few parents, myself included, that worked hard every day to make sure their child was exposed to such balance of different types of learning. Many parents that are at home spend time cleaning, cooking, caring for elderly parents, taking care of younger children and the many other things that make up life. I grant there are some parents who have the time, the educational ability and the wherewithal and do a great job of home schooling but I do think that is the exception not the rule.

Phil is right that every learning experience from preschool to graduate school can be positive or negative depending on how it is structured and the teacher. I also totally agree with him that we should be teaching foreign language before age 8 when the part of the brain that is most active in language learning is most active. Not HS. (That is one of my pet peeves and not really relevant to full day kindergarten.)

I think there are very important reasons to consider the educational benefits of full day kindergarten. But, I don't discount the fact that we have our society today based on a often old model of the family in an agricultural society. Statistically, I question how many families really have a parent at home during the day and how easy it is to take a break in the day to relocate a child. Brownstone Day School helps parents out by picking up children at McKinley - but I don't know how many other schools do this.

[Phil Florian]

This has been a very illuminating thread for me. It truly opened my eyes to how people see each other. The mirror of course reflects both ways. While it is assumed that I see stay at home mothers as being with rich husbands and do nothing all day (from my one "hanging out at home" line), I clearly don't. As I said, mothers who stay at home living in a situation where you have enough money to do it, not excess. "Enough" comes from sacrifice, to be sure, but it still works.

And when I said I was envious, I wasn't being at all facetious. As I said, I got to be a stay-at-home dad for the entire summer (mostly) because my current job has better paternity leave and it was the nicest summer I have ever spent. I didn't get to stay home more than a week with my first child and these few months I got to bond with my new baby in ways I never could with my first. It was glorious. And yes, I got a lot of laundry done, did the cooking, a little cleaning (c'mon, I am trying here! ), shopping, etc. And also had a lot of time just looking into the little girls eyes as she woke up to the world. Glorious.

So I agree not to assume that all parents who stay at home have any more time to volunteer in school than a working parent. If you have 5 kids and are running all about town all day, taking care of the home, etc. That is full time work. I accept that.

But please, reflect on the fact that I am not working a job and a half with my wife also working full time to afford our cottage on the lake, a private jet and a new pair of shoes every week. I shop at Marcs and Aldis and never Heinens. We love Lakewood's consignment stores and used clothing stores. We are beholden to Target, Payless and most importantly, Grandma (who has vowed to help with our daughter's shoes). We bought our first new car in over 10 years and that was only with generous help of grandmother and the trade in of a good (but too small) used car. We live in a nice, comfortable but not gigantic home on the south side of the city. We are happy as clams about it, too.

Another assumption that I hope to dispell is that I suddenly want the government to take care of my children...apparently always, based on how people are taking my comments. Currently I am looking at the one half day after kindgergarten. That's it. Where are we suddenly talking about full-on day care paid by the government and thus the people of this fine city the moment we have to go to work?

I found this discussion about the merits of full time kg vs. half time very illuminating. I agree that a pay to play program, as offered at some private schools, would be a nice addition to the Free and Appropriate Public Education guaranteed 1/2 day of school. And from age 6 months to 5 or 6 I know that the rest of the time I will be paying out of pocket and have said nothing different. These are the happiest, yet poorest, times of our lives.

So please, I love stay at home parents. I truly envy them. I know that many take that role very seriously and never meant (though I see where I could be misunderstood) anything totally derogatory about parent's who "hang around" at home. I work with stay at home parents daily in my job and crave and cherish those parents who can manage a home, children and a budget and keep it together. It is as frustrating a job as any out there and I agree, society doesn't cherish it enough.

I think it is clear that this thread has run its course and far beyond. This is why I started a new thread about a tangental topic that I think will garner some more views with hopefully less defensive responses (including my own). This one truly got out of hand quickly.

Good luck all! It is late, the kids are in bed and I got to do some hanging out!

[Charyn Compeau]

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[Jeff Endress]

Phil

These are the happiest, yet poorest, times of our lives.

Just wait till you have two in College at the same time......

Jeff

[Danielle Masters]

Just wait till you have two in College at the same time......

Stop scaring me, I'll have at least four of mine in at the same time.

[ryan costa]

some of them might be better off at vocational school. plumbers and building maintenance guys make good money.

[Danielle Masters]

some of them might be better off at vocational school. plumbers and building maintenance guys make good money.

I am sure at least one will follow in my husbands footsteps, he is a piano technician, so that would mean trade school. My father is a mechanic so if they want to do that that's fine too. But vocational school still costs so either way it's money, it just may be less.

[ryan costa]

Is there no free vocational school for high schoolers of the county? Lorain has JVS.