State Report Card Shows Our Schools Are Struggling

[m buckley]

Gary Rice wrote: Every now and again, for a variety of reasons school "reformers" and critics come along. They have there own reasons for raising their points, ranging from political, to personal,to philosophical. Sometimes what they bring to the table makes sense, and sometimes not." ...
"I truly believe that the proper forum for remarks or questions relating to our schools would be to bring them before the school board during the question and answer period."
Unlike Mr. Rice, I believe that this is as good a forum as any. I'm grateful that Mr. Calleri drew my attention to this topic.
Sometimes a person's reasons for raising a point goes beyond politics, philosophy, or anything personal, sometimes, hopefully most times, it's because they are interested in the truth.

[Michael Deneen]

The majority of this School Board decided to inject themselves in city matters by endorsing hospital demolition.
Ironically, they can't even keep their own house in order.

We're on the wrong track, folks.

[Gary Rice]

I suppose, since this is the Lenten season, the quote from Pontius Pilate might be appropriate here:

"What is truth?"

When searching for the truth, it can be valuable to ascertain where people are coming from.

First of all, so many concerns are expressed here on the 'Deck that, in my opinion, would be better expressed directly to those involved in dealing with those concerns. Rather than contacting appropriate officials directly, so many people seem to prefer to vent here. While that may be of personal comfort to them, it would be a sincere question in my mind as to how much is accomplished when they do so.

It would also be a sincere question in my mind why people purporting to support the Lakewood schools would choose to air alleged school concerns in a public forum, rather than take those concerns directly to those involved who are running the district? Schools depend on levy dollars and public approval in Ohio in order to function. Citing statistics and presenting information that may look altogether different when viewed in another context can work against passing future school money issues and can further exacerbate existing school concerns.

Quite frankly, there are opinions out there as to whether there should even be "public" schools. (much less, what should be taught in them) Those of us who support the public schools are not naive as to the many issues facing our schools, but at the same time, we recognize their importance to a society of free people. We also recognize our responsibility as citizens to take our concerns directly to our representatives when the time is right to do so.

Don't mistake me, I believe that people certainly have a right to post school-related, or any other concerns here or virtually anywhere else, for that matter. I'm only thinking here about the most effective way for people to have their concerns heard.

Back to the banjo...

[cameron karslake]

I am grateful to Mr. Calleri for sharing his concerns with the public here on the Deck. Being so involved with the hospital issue, it's very difficult for concerned citizens to attend both City Council and School Board meetings since they are held on the exact same days each month. There have been requests to switch either of the meetings to the 2nd and 4th Mondays of each month. Any change would be welcome. Those requests have fallen on deaf ears.

I can't imagine Mr. Calleri has not shared his concerns with the present school board. I certainly hope he has, as he seems to have done a major amount of analysis concerning our school's trajectory in recent years. Maybe his concerns are falling on deaf ears as well (at the school board) and that is why he has now cast a larger net to try and educate the populace about what he feels are our school district's negative trends.

We should all be so dedicated!

[Woody Calleri]

I suppose, since this is the Lenten season, the quote from Pontius Pilate might be appropriate here:"What is truth?"

When searching for the truth, it can be valuable to ascertain where people are coming from.

First of all, so many concerns are expressed here on the 'Deck that, in my opinion, would be better expressed directly to those involved in dealing with those concerns. Rather than contacting appropriate officials directly, so many people seem to prefer to vent here. While that may be of personal comfort to them, it would be a sincere question in my mind as to how much is accomplished when they do so.

It would also be a sincere question in my mind why people purporting to support the Lakewood schools would choose to air alleged school concerns in a public forum, rather than take those concerns directly to those involved who are running the district? Schools depend on levy dollars and public approval in Ohio in order to function. Citing statistics and presenting information that may look altogether different when viewed in another context can work against passing future school money issues and can further exacerbate existing school concerns.

Quite frankly, there are opinions out there as to whether there should even be "public" schools. (much less, what should be taught in them) Those of us who support the public schools are not naive as to the many issues facing our schools, but at the same time, we recognize their importance to a society of free people. We also recognize our responsibility as citizens to take our concerns directly to our representatives when the time is right to do so.

Don't mistake me, I believe that people certainly have a right to post school-related, or any other concerns here or virtually anywhere else, for that matter. I'm only thinking here about the most effective way for people to have their concerns heard.

Back to the banjo...

Mr. Rice

Thank you again for responding to my post.

Reading your posts I get the impression that you believe that I

1. have a hidden agenda

2. am anti-public schools

3. should not be informing the people of Lakewood as to the condition of our schools.

1. I have no hidden agenda. I have lived in Lakewood for 19 years and for years I have been involved and given many hours of effort to our schools, our school support groups (PTA, PTO, Council of PTAs – a member of all 3 executive teams) and our administration to improve our schools. My bottom line in all of this is to improve our schools to ensure that our students get the education they need to succeed. On that issue our schools are not succeeding and our kids are the ones suffering.

I do agree with you that airing concerns in a public forum such as this, if done by itself, is a waste of time. I can assure you that prior to posting on the Deck, I have put in countless hours of research, attend school board meetings, met with teachers, met with the treasurer (past and present), met with individuals teachers, met with principals, and met with the Superintendent. I have also run for school board investing a significant amount of my time and money in an attempt to raise awareness and bring about change. Unfortunately, the board and some community members prefer to believe that everything is great in our schools. I am posting here merely as another method to raise awareness and hopefully motivate people to get more involved in our schools.

2. I have nothing against public schools. I taught in public schools for over 5 years. My experience has given me insight many others do not have as to the good and bad in our schools. Our schools are not perfect but our teachers are trying to do their jobs. Yes, my daughter goes to St. Joes (because of the concerns raised here) but I also have 2 kids still in the Lakewood system. I would have preferred to have my oldest remain in the Lakewood system but could not given the decline at the high school. In my job I work with 25-30 kids every year to help them get into college. I have real life experience with the downside of attending a school district with our stats and could not put my daughter at a disadvantage by sending her to our high school. I could have simply walked away from our schools. Instead, I am spending time and resources to try to bring awareness to what is happening and what needs to be done to fix our schools. I am hopeful that our leadership fixes the schools so that my other 2 can go to the high school.

3. Blaming the messenger for informing the people as to what is happening at our schools is not helpful. Our school board had all the information I presented for over 6 weeks. They have chosen to not tell our taxpayers and school families the condition of our schools. Instead they continue to tell us our schools are “excellent” and as good as they were 10 years ago. (Kind of like the Browns telling us they are a “Championship team”. They were years ago but are not now.)

Instead of admitting that our schools have problems and addressing those issues, they attack the motives and integrity of those who bring the truth to our residents. This is not helpful and is actually counterproductive. We had great schools, however we have seen a significant decline in them over the last 5-10 years. That decline needs to be addressed not ignored. We can turn things around, but it will not happen if we spend our time going after those that point out our problems.

Finally, I would love to hear how the stats the state has released “may look altogether different when viewed in another context can”

These stats are

• Our student graduation rate is 82.7% is down from 92% and at the bottom of the state rankings.

• Only 27% of our students who take the ACT are remediation free based on their ACT score.

• Only 34% of our best students (AP students) pass the exam. This is down from 75%+ 5 to 10 years ago and well below the national average of 59%.

• Our spending is in the top 10% of the state while our results are in the bottom 50%.

We are at a crossroads. We can either address our issues and put a 5 year plan in place to fix our schools or we can continue to ignore the issues and watch our schools decline further. If we do not fix our schools we will see our best students leave, families move out of Lakewood and our schools will become a concern rather than a selling point for our town.

[Woody Calleri]

Gary Rice wrote: Every now and again, for a variety of reasons school "reformers" and critics come along. They have there own reasons for raising their points, ranging from political, to personal,to philosophical. Sometimes what they bring to the table makes sense, and sometimes not." ...
"I truly believe that the proper forum for remarks or questions relating to our schools would be to bring them before the school board during the question and answer period."

Unlike Mr. Rice, I believe that this is as good a forum as any. I'm grateful that Mr. Calleri drew my attention to this topic.

Sometimes a person's reasons for raising a point goes beyond politics, philosophy, or anything personal, sometimes, hopefully most times, it's because they are interested in the truth.

Mr. Buckley

Thank you for your support and interest in let others know what is happening to our schools.

Woody Calleri

[Gary Rice]

Mr.Calleri,

Only rarely will I address a personal reply to someone in a public forum such as this one, as I believe these sorts of things are much better handled face-to-face.

You will note that your name was not specifically mentioned in my remarks.

I certainly do appreciate your interest and involvement with the public schools. I REALLY appreciate your being a parent, and I sincerely thank you for trying to make our schools better.

Running for school board takes work. You may recall that I greeted you in my driveway and wished you well at that time, when you were canvassing the neighborhood.

Regarding your apparent concerns about what I might think, concerning whether you might have a hidden agenda, be anti-public schools, or whether you should be informing people about the schools? I had absolutely no idea about what your positions might be about such things, except of course that you decided to bring some school issues here to the 'Deck.

Taking yourself out of the equation, I hope that you would understand that my principal concerns were the effect that any sort of school data can have on the public perceptions of our schools. I formerly taught in a district where it was very difficult to pass a school levy. I saw what happened there when schools become targeted for problems, whether real or imagined.

As I've indicated, many, if not all school districts have serious issues, especially Ohio districts. Downward spirals of diminishing public support can be devastating to the future of our schools, and then you have the domino effect of property values, etc...

There is that Law of Unintended Consequences that always seems to be in play.

As for looking at data differently, or in another context, I suppose one thing that I was thinking about was that, as long as public schools are forced to evaluate students primarily with single-modality pencil-paper exams, (having arguably little consideration for the many other factors that comprise social, demographic, cultural, or economic factors affecting the learning paradigm) there will, in my opinion, be incomplete and inaccurate standards of measurement; therefore making objective measurement or other outcome data to be effectively questionable in my mind.

I will state unequivocally that I wish all of our Lakewood parents and citizens cared about our schools as much as you do. It's even possible that we might agree on more than you might think.

These points being made, (and while not for a moment diminishing any concerns that are presently facing Lakewood's schools) I still like to look at them with a "glass half full" attitude. Whether you look at the music or the sports programs, or the academics and student support mechanisms in place, Lakewood, in my eyes, has a district to be very proud of.

Back to the banjo...

[Tim Liston]

I do like engaging in debate about the cost and effectiveness of government schools. We as taxpayers pay a lot for them, whether we have children who attend or not. I wish such debates here on the Deck took place on the schools’ thread but that’s a different issue….

Gary wrote: “… my principal concerns (are) the effect that any sort of school data can have on the public perceptions of our schools.”

Well I for one would certainly HOPE that school data affects public perceptions. Is that not the intent? I do think that one has to assume that public perceptions are not always wrong. Most often I believe, such perceptions are real, and not imagined. "Perceptions" like huge, recent drops in college readiness for example. And FWIW college readiness is not “single-modality.” It’s measured in many ways. Gary are you suggesting that "any sort of" measurement resulting in any sort of effectiveness data is bound to be counterproductive?

Gary wrote: “… Downward spirals of diminishing public support can be devastating to the future of our schools.”

Again, I surely hope so. Because the status quo simply is unacceptable. Sometimes change is for the better. Sometimes (but not always) the public is right, and the folks who run government schools (i.e. the government) are wrong.

Gary wrote: “…as long as public schools are forced to evaluate students primarily with single-modality pencil-paper exams.”

Government schools are not “forced” to evaluate students in any particular fashion. If the teachers reacted as passionately about evaluation methods as they do about their compensation, things would change almost overnight. You know who determines evaluation methods in government schools? Government. And frankly I think government school teachers (and private school teachers as well) tacitly and quietly back bubble-test evaluations because such tests are so easy to administer and “grade.”

Woody suggested a “five-year plan.” Woody we can do MUCH better. Here’s a one-year plan. Day one, get rid of “school districts.” Day two, take the money that governments (Federal, state, county, city) dole out to schools, and dole it out to parents instead. Let those parents choose and pay for the schools their children attend. In one year, educational outcomes will already be changing for the better, and “diminishing public support” will be a thing of the past.

Until we get governments out of the business of second-guessing parents, teachers and local administrators, and until we get governments to stop telling us which schools are "free" and which schools are not, little we can say here on the Deck or at school board meetings is going to make any difference at all. Sorry, the glass is not half-full. It is half-empty and getting emptier as Woody points out. It’s past time for serious change. But trying to change things here on the Deck or at school board meetings is akin to the proverbial deck chairs on the Titanic….

[Brad T Humphreys]

First let me start off by saying - I'm not an educator or intimately involved in school board activities (other than being a customer). I am a bit of a numbers person though. As a (very happy) customer of the district I was alarmed by the numbers you posted as they disagree with my experience and notional evidence.

So I downloaded the data from the state's website that you posted. I only looked at the grad rates and your numbers for those seem to be a bit askew. I don't get that we are "rank[ed] in the bottom 10% of the state". The little circles on the plot below shows Lakewood's grad rate. 70% of the districts in the state have about a 85% or higher graduation rate. So its arguable that we are in the lower 1/3, but definitely not the bottom 10%. It also shows that we are on the sensitive part of that curve (if we could pull our rate up 5% to 90%, we would be in the top half of the state). (The >90% 1990s years that you mention are not in the database you linked).

So to me, what I see is:
-We definitely have room for improvement
-We are in the tough area of that improvement
-There has not been a significant alarming downward trend.

I can't find it, but there was a great national NPR story recently about Lakewood like school districts. Essentially that schools with very mixed demographics need to spend more than wealthier demographics; it's not surprising, but it is counter to itself. We have been very pleased that the Lakewood district is diverse in so many ways.... diverse too in the all of the different children it serves and what it can offer them.

Brad

[Gary Rice]

Good Evening Tim,

Gee, we've been down this old road a time or two, have we not?

At least we sometimes agree about bicycles.

(For those who do not know, Tim is a great supporter of biking, and a real inspiration to me that way. We do, ahem, seem to agree to disagree just a little bit..or more, about the public schools sometimes)

Tim wrote:

"Gary are you suggesting that "any sort of" measurement resulting in any sort of effectiveness data is bound to be counterproductive?"

Well, Tim, that depends...

Children, for many reasons, do not achieve at the exact same time. It's what you can do with the high achievers, and how you address the low achievers that, in my opinion, marks a great school.

There are other factors, ranging from class size, to the ability to individualize. If everyone MUST be on page 33 by Friday, that's likely the beginning of trouble. Some students will want to be on page 100. Others may be struggling with getting past page 6, and there you are.

Another factor these days is the blame game. Some blame teachers for lack of student achievement, some blame parents, some blame economics, politics, you-name-it. The fact of the matter is that blame is an elusive notion. Then too...the child's responsibility comes into play, but only if that child is presented with appropriate material that is understandable and achievable.

As nearly everyone is well aware. Local schools have little control over mandated state and federal testing requirements, although some of that is thankfully changing. In a best case scenario, testing should be diagnostic and prescriptive, allowing teachers time to remediate student weaknesses. All too often however, there are mandates that dictate teaching for content coverage, rather than for content mastery. That's why you can get students who covered the American Revolution but could not identify even elementary details about its leaders.

For the record, by the way, teachers generally have nothing to do with grading federal and state tests. Those are sent out for grading. While it is true that bubble-in tests can be graded easily, there is much classroom testing that involves multi-factored evaluations.

Anyone wanting to get out of work or take the easy road would best want to stay out of the world of teaching.

Back to the banjo...

(and thanks Brad, for showing us a few things about how those numbers can be used)

[Woody Calleri]

First let me start off by saying - I'm not an educator or intimately involved in school board activities (other than being a customer). I am a bit of a numbers person though. As a (very happy) customer of the district I was alarmed by the numbers you posted as they disagree with my experience and notional evidence.

So I downloaded the data from the state's website that you posted. I only looked at the grad rates and your numbers for those seem to be a bit askew. I don't get that we are "rank[ed] in the bottom 10% of the state". The little circles on the plot below shows Lakewood's grad rate. 70% of the districts in the state have about a 85% or higher graduation rate. So its arguable that we are in the lower 1/3, but definitely not the bottom 10%. It also shows that we are on the sensitive part of that curve (if we could pull our rate up 5% to 90%, we would be in the top half of the state). (The >90% 1990s years that you mention are not in the database you linked).

So to me, what I see is:
-We definitely have room for improvement
-We are in the tough area of that improvement
-There has not been a significant alarming downward trend.

I can't find it, but there was a great national NPR story recently about Lakewood like school districts. Essentially that schools with very mixed demographics need to spend more than wealthier demographics; it's not surprising, but it is counter to itself. We have been very pleased that the Lakewood district is diverse in so many ways.... diverse too in the all of the different children it serves and what it can offer them.

Brad

Mr Humphrey

Thank you for your question.

To calculate the graduation ranking (564 of 608) I simply took the 4 year graduation rate data which is available here as an excel spreadsheet http://reportcard.education.ohio.gov/Pa ... IRN=044198 and sorted it from top to bottom based on the 4 year graduation rate.

The end result of the sorting can be found here (Lakewood is highlighted at 564) http://www.calleriforschoolboard.info/2 ... bsite).xls

Our rate of 82.7% places us at 564 of 608 school districts (1 district did not report data)

This places us in the bottom 10% (565/609 = is 92.8% (or 92.8% of the school districts are ahead of us) which places us at 7.2% or rounded up to bottom 10%)

Woody

[Woody Calleri]

Mr.Calleri,

Only rarely will I address a personal reply to someone in a public forum such as this one, as I believe these sorts of things are much better handled face-to-face.

You will note that your name was not specifically mentioned in my remarks.

I certainly do appreciate your interest and involvement with the public schools. I REALLY appreciate your being a parent, and I sincerely thank you for trying to make our schools better.

Running for school board takes work. You may recall that I greeted you in my driveway and wished you well at that time, when you were canvassing the neighborhood.

Regarding your apparent concerns about what I might think, concerning whether you might have a hidden agenda, be anti-public schools, or whether you should be informing people about the schools? I had absolutely no idea about what your positions might be about such things, except of course that you decided to bring some school issues here to the 'Deck.

Taking yourself out of the equation, I hope that you would understand that my principal concerns were the effect that any sort of school data can have on the public perceptions of our schools. I formerly taught in a district where it was very difficult to pass a school levy. I saw what happened there when schools become targeted for problems, whether real or imagined.

As I've indicated, many, if not all school districts have serious issues, especially Ohio districts. Downward spirals of diminishing public support can be devastating to the future of our schools, and then you have the domino effect of property values, etc...

There is that Law of Unintended Consequences that always seems to be in play.

As for looking at data differently, or in another context, I suppose one thing that I was thinking about was that, as long as public schools are forced to evaluate students primarily with single-modality pencil-paper exams, (having arguably little consideration for the many other factors that comprise social, demographic, cultural, or economic factors affecting the learning paradigm) there will, in my opinion, be incomplete and inaccurate standards of measurement; therefore making objective measurement or other outcome data to be effectively questionable in my mind.

I will state unequivocally that I wish all of our Lakewood parents and citizens cared about our schools as much as you do. It's even possible that we might agree on more than you might think.

These points being made, (and while not for a moment diminishing any concerns that are presently facing Lakewood's schools) I still like to look at them with a "glass half full" attitude. Whether you look at the music or the sports programs, or the academics and student support mechanisms in place, Lakewood, in my eyes, has a district to be very proud of.

Back to the banjo...

Mr. Rice

I appreciate your comments, insight and passion for our schools. I agree that you and I agree on more than what is happening in this forum. I know you have a strong commitment to our schools and our community. I will try to do a better job keeping that in mind in the future.

Thank you for your time and concern for our schools

Woody

[Lori Allen _]

Woody,
I appreciate your open and honest discussion that you have started here on the Deck. I would encourage you to keep us informed. I think that a person has to dig around on the Ohio Department of Education website to figure out where we really stand. It appears that the ODE gives just about anyone an excellent rating. That being said, I believe we have school board members that have become stagnant and their jobs have become more of a status symbol to them. It is also not good to have the city and school district being good friends. I believe that people need to pay attention to who is really working on making the city and schools better, as you are doing, and not vote for someone at the polls because you recognize a name. We need a new school board. Why are we now 6 million dollars over budget on this project? Do any of them know how contracts work? I believe this is negligent oversight.

I know from personal experience that Linda Beebe does not return phone calls. I tried her several times a few years back about finding discrepancies between what grades the teacher was putting in their grade book and what grades were on the actual papers. When I finally caught her at home, She asked me what did I want her to do about it, and then said there was nothing she could do. I had to contact Michael Skindell in order to get an appointment with the superintendent.I found her to be quite disrespectful. This is when my child went to private school. He was National Honor and took Honors Physics and college level classes in high school.

[Gary Rice]

Thanks for your understanding, Mr.Calleri, .

I would hope that you do know exactly where I am coming from.

Just as I would defend the flag, motherhood, and apple pie, I will defend the public schools.

Like you, I would also wish to express my concerns, if I thought that there was something that needs to be done to improve our schools. At that point, our approaches might differ, but not our sincerity.

Back to the banjo...

[Brad T Humphreys]

Woody,

Now that's interesting..... I did a quick comparison of your spreadsheet and what I got from the database: the delta looks to be that mine includes all schools receiving public funds. So that includes charters districts and other ESC type schools (wow is that a whole separate yet related discussion). The year to year variation over 5 years though is 3%. So I would agree that our grad number is (surprisingly) low in relation to what I'll call traditional districts but is stable. Hmmmm interesting stuff.

Brad