Query : Should the Deck Create a "Lakewood Hospital" Forum

[Dan Alaimo]

One more thought: I occasionally will post things to the Deck about meetings/events where I want maximum exposure (like the Kauffman Park Friends meeting to elect officers on Jan. 21, 7 pm in the Library - Please Come!). In that situation, I'm concerned with eyeballs seeing it, not surrounding topics. And in my experience, "events" pages are black holes for that kind of information.

Also take note:
Schools and education last post: Nov. 7
Global discussion last post: Nov. 28
Urban dynamics last post: Aug. 21

I'd like to suggest that we discuss combining forums rather than breaking out a new one.

[Brian Essi]

The great thing bout free speech is that it is free to go anywhere it pleases.

[Jim O'Bryan]

The great thing bout free speech is that it is free to go anywhere it pleases.

.

[Lori Allen _]

I still think the Hospital should be separate. If people want to read about it, they will look for it in a sub-forum. I miss the people that used to be on the Deck and the different subjects, views, etc. that they brought. Much to some peoples' chagrin, not everyone cares or is interested in the hospital and forcing it down their throats will not change their minds. It will make them leave the Deck, like most of them already have.

[tom monahan]

I would not be in favor at this time of transferring Lakewood Hospital comments to elsewhere on the LO. city is so divided because of the actions of Summers and the Clinic that there needs to be a relief valve for people to let off steam until and if this city ever gets back together as a community I'm sure there are many people who would like this topic to go away and pretend nothing has happened. The closing of the hospital in my judgment is the most serious thing that has ever happened in this city's history. You don't close a 108-year-old iconic institution and pretend it was never here. Even Tom Bullock admitted on Dec. 21 that we may never recover the jobs and other economic assets that the hospital brought to our city.

And last night at the first council meeting of the year, newly elected council president Sam O'Leary made a feeble attempt to counter comments by Dr. Terry Kilroy that there are other possible sites to build and open an acute care community hospital. The non-compete clause in the new Master Agreement is the ultimate slap in the fact to Lakewoodites that O'Leary and Company championed and passed. When pressed O'Leary had top back down. It's a bad start for a neophyte counci president.

And the self-proclaimed medical expert on city council, Cindy Marx, appeared pleased that she was able to show Dr. Kilroy that he had misspoken when he stated that the 850 Columbia Road Building (that was sold to the Clinic for $8.2Million) had an emergency room inside of it. The sad fact in all of this is that the Clinic will build its small medical building across from the hospital site and Summers and Company and Council could have insisted that the original hospital could be placed on the market for possible continuation as a community hospital. The Clinic, Summers and Council could have come out of this situation smelling like a rose,

The opposite is true.

[Lori Allen _]

Congratulations Sam! It appears you went above and beyond what Summers and CCF wanted you to do!

[Corey Rossen]

I would not be in favor of a new Lakewood Hospital Forum, I would not know where to find leaf collection information.

[cameron karslake]

I don't buy that the "deck" shoves the hospital issue down your throat. It's free speech to post and free speech to not click on it. It is by far the most important ordinance passed in decades. It's got to go.

No special forum on this issue.

[David Westlake]

There are 30 posts on the front page of the Deck, 23 of them have nothing to do with the Clinic. Just saying...

This evening, 12 (40%) out of the top 30 have something to do with the Clinic. Just saying...

[m buckley]

David Westlake wrote: " This evening there are 12 ( 40%) have something to do with the Clinic. Just saying..."
Just saying what David.
That you won't tolerate that percentage.
That it's unacceptable to have this discourse in an open forum.
That there is a need to sequester your neighbors opinions when they differ from yours?

[Dan Alaimo]

It's so easy to skim over stuff. If you've clicked on it, you were interested in it.
And you can always start a topic you are interested in.

[Brian Essi]

I know this question may not be popular, but should the Observer Deck create a "Lakewood Hospital" forum where the Lakewood Hospital issues can be discussed and taken off of the "General Discussions" board?

In no way am I trying to say that the Lakewood Hospital issues are not important. They are. But the same 6 - 7 people post and reply to the same messages about the Hospital over and over again. Threads that aren't even posted with the Lakewood Hospital in mind become derailed into Lakewood Hospital discussions. This board has changed from a "General Discussion" to a "Lakewood Hospital Discussion" thread in the last year. I understand the importance of the Lakewood Hospital issue and, though not agreeing with many of the arguments put forward, appreciate the concern and interest in the issue. However, we are turning this forum into a discussion board about the Hospital and less about Lakewood in general.

If I am wrong, and people disagree, so be it. Just thought I would ask the question before the Observation Deck permanently becomes the "Lakewood Hospital" Deck.

Matthew,

Your complaint and suggestion here have had many reactions.

However, the gist of your complaint seems to be that the alleged 6-7 posters keep adding content that relates to the hospital and related government accountability issues and you don't like it.

May I suggest that the solution to your problem and those aligned with you would be to actually add some content of your own on matters you would like to discuss, take some positions and engage in debate if you wish. That is to say: do something other than criticize and complain about others. It seems to me that you complain about what the Deck is and yu want it to be different, by you have very little to add.

I'm sorry Matthew, but I and other posters are not your problem nor am I a solution to your problem and neither is the fence you would like to owners of the Deck build.

In other words, you are the answer to your problem.

Take control. Make it happen.

The Deck has limitless space for you to type away and drown out what you are complaining about.

Go for it!

[Lori Allen _]

I think the point that Matthew & David Westlake are trying to make (and they can correct me if I am wrong) is that the "Lakewood General Discussions" forum is plastered with so much hospital-related matter that it is nearly impossible for anyone else to get a word in edgewise about any other topic (crime, city events, etc.). Since the Deck is mainly SLH members now, it is an extreme rarity that anyone will "debate" or even post about anything that is not related to Lakewood Hospital. Nobody will engage. Often when debate does ensue, it often becomes some members of SLH feeding information to those that are on the Deck to gather information for the other side. It also sometimes becomes bullying and chauvinism.

Yes, it is free speech for SLH to post whatever they wish on here. However, when almost the entire forum is "hijacked" with hospital topics to the point where nobody else has a chance to speak, then that is suppressing the free speech of others. In my opinion, some of the comments made to Matthew and others on this thread (particularly those that hold opposing viewpoints to SLH) are uncalled for and border on bullying.

In going door-to-door, I have spoken to numerous people that have told me that they are going to "go with the flow" with the hospital debate due to the hostile attitudes that they have experienced from SLH members. Yes, I have had people tell me this. I myself was severely scolded by one of the SLH group leaders due to the fact that I disclosed that I did not cast a vote for either Mark Schneider or John Litten in the general election. Since this incident, this person will not speak to me. I do not feel that this is appropriate behavior for someone in a leadership role.

On a positive note, I will say that Pam Wetula, Donna, and Mike Skindell have always been very, very kind to me. I spoke with Pam yesterday about my thoughts, ideas, etc.

I was awake most of the night last night, debating with myself whether or not I should stay with SLH. I believe my answer is much clearer now. I have been biting my tongue about my feelings about this issue for quite some time, but I can bite it no longer. Since this post will likely be quite unpopular, I will await a good tongue-lashing!

[Dan Alaimo]

Some thoughts:
This hospital discussion is not going to go on forever. My prediction is it starts to die out as of the March referendum, whichever side prevails. If the referendum passes, then there will still be some discussion about what to do next, but it won't have the fire of an election campaign. If it doesn't pass, then SLH waits on its lawsuit and other complaints, but there isn't much to say.

If anyone is still complaining about how nasty the SLH people are, refer them to the Nextdoor discussion going on now. The other side is nasty, rude, obnoxious - and they think they've won. There's one guy promulgating a vile strain of ageism, which may be a civil rights issue.

Finally, I have a prediction: Lakewood's next group of civic leaders will come out of the hospital effort. We've all learned a great deal, and some of those people are going to put that knowledge to use.

[Michael Deneen]

This hospital discussion is not going to go on forever.

I disagree. This hospital deal is a gaping wound that will impact the city for many, many years.

The best analogy is the Iraq War. Its supporters "won" back in 2003 when the military action was authorized.
However, as the years passed the costs continued to mount, both in terms of lives and money.
Public support melted away as the numerous lies used to sell the war were exposed.

13 years later, the unintended consequences of the war haunt us. ISIS was created, Iran was emboldened, the VA is unable to keep up with the thousands of wounded veterans, etc.

Those who cheerleaded the war in 2003 have largely disappeared or now say they were duped by "faulty intelligence".

I expect a similar pattern with the hospital issue. The impact of the lost hospital will not seem so bad at first, but the cost will escalate as years go by. By the 2020s the consensus will be that it was a horrendous mistake.
Current public officials that are still around in ten years will try to play the "faulty intelligence" card, claiming they were duped by the Clinic.