Well At Least It Is Not Political - Really

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Phil Florian
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Well At Least It Is Not Political - Really

Post by Phil Florian »

Lori Allen _ wrote:Mike,

Hiding crimes and not warning the city about a rapist is not a democratic or republican issue. It is just plain wrong.

Phil, please do some research, you will find that there is A LOT of criminal activities happening in Lakewood that our safety director does not inform us about. I realize that sometimes they are kept quiet in order for the police to do further investigations, however, when you label everything as "departmental information", you can get out of following the sunshine laws.

I am not sure what "hiding crimes" means. This is outside of this rape situation. Are you saying that when you or someone asks for crime statistics you are getting incorrect information? Or that the city isn't reaching out to report crimes that are happening in the city?

My republican comment was responding to Mr. Deneen's "republican roots" point.

I guess I am not clear one what mechanism crime statistics need to be shared and in what venue. Should we get daily/weekly/monthly crime updates? Or just use the existing Blotter posts in the local paper? Should we get robo-called? Again, outside of a "be on the look out" sort of deal in the situation above.

I am not clear what a typical citizen expectation is on crime reporting, what your expectations are and how the city should attend to this.

Is it because crime stats are hard to come by? I ask because if you are saying I can do research that would show not all crimes are reported how are we finding this out? What are we seeing that the City is reporting vs. what is really happening?
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They are too lazy or stupid to reach correct...conclusions, or
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Phil Florian
Posts: 538
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Re: Well At Least It Is Not Political - Really

Post by Phil Florian »

todd heckeler wrote:Fil for City Council.

Todd for Mayor.
"Possible explanations for why other people might not share our views:
They haven't been told the truth.
They are too lazy or stupid to reach correct...conclusions, or
They are biased by their self-interest, dogma, or ideology."
- Matt Motyl
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Well At Least It Is Not Political - Really

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Phil Florian wrote:I understand the Observation Deck pile on mentality towards Summers but jeez, this might not be the one to do it on.
Phil

I certainly understand you constantly piling on the Deck while making negative posts about the negativity. :roll:

Seriously, One on Warren Road at 4am as the woman was getting ready to go to work. One would think "that a simple, hey be on the look out.." would be a minimum response as she did not know the person though the sketch which was not circulated, and looked like another victim. 4 day later, if my memory serves me correctly the woman is raped early in the morning at W118, still nothing, it was not until the third rape and Cleveland Police calling him the Westside rapist, did the mayor finally issue a safety alert.

In the release he also mentioned being careful because we are enjoying a real renaissance of business in the area like Campbells Popcorn.

More than one female posted, great popcorn while being raped.

Bad move, followed by bad move, followed by bad release.

Did we really need to know we could get popcorn blocks from the rape?

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Phil Florian
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Well At Least It Is Not Political - Really

Post by Phil Florian »

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Phil Florian wrote:I understand the Observation Deck pile on mentality towards Summers but jeez, this might not be the one to do it on.
Phil

I certainly understand you constantly piling on the Deck while making negative posts about the negativity. :roll:

Seriously, One on Warren Road at 4am as the woman was getting ready to go to work. One would think "that a simple, hey be on the look out.." would be a minimum response as she did not know the person though the sketch which was not circulated, and looked like another victim. 4 day later, if my memory serves me correctly the woman is raped early in the morning at W118, still nothing, it was not until the third rape and Cleveland Police calling him the Westside rapist, did the mayor finally issue a safety alert.

In the release he also mentioned being careful because we are enjoying a real renaissance of business in the area like Campbells Popcorn.

More than one female posted, great popcorn while being raped.

Bad move, followed by bad move, followed by bad release.

Did we really need to know we could get popcorn blocks from the rape?

.

I agree with your points but that is why I wanted to know what the original email to the Mayor said because the popcorn thing seemed so out of place I wonder if he was trying to answer another question. Otherwise, yeah, pretty tacky on his part to use it as a campaign statement.

Am I piling on the Deck? If you say so. Was my point invalid (namely that the preponderance of posts on the Deck are strongly negative towards Summers?)? Like the Anti-Summers/Pro-Skindell thing where you had alternates for how I should have said things I guess I really need to restate things to keep in mind how it might be received. Maybe I should have said "Seeing as how most of the front page of the Deck shows an anti-Summers bias..." Does that work better? I want to be accurate and still make my point. Let me know if that works. Writing IS really editing after all.

Thanks!

Phil
"Possible explanations for why other people might not share our views:
They haven't been told the truth.
They are too lazy or stupid to reach correct...conclusions, or
They are biased by their self-interest, dogma, or ideology."
- Matt Motyl
Lori Allen _
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:37 pm

Re: Well At Least It Is Not Political - Really

Post by Lori Allen _ »

I am not sure what "hiding crimes" means. This is outside of this rape situation. Are you saying that when you or someone asks for crime statistics you are getting incorrect information? Or that the city isn't reaching out to report crimes that are happening in the city?

My republican comment was responding to Mr. Deneen's "republican roots" point.

I guess I am not clear one what mechanism crime statistics need to be shared and in what venue. Should we get daily/weekly/monthly crime updates? Or just use the existing Blotter posts in the local paper? Should we get robo-called? Again, outside of a "be on the look out" sort of deal in the situation above.

I am not clear what a typical citizen expectation is on crime reporting, what your expectations are and how the city should attend to this.

Is it because crime stats are hard to come by? I ask because if you are saying I can do research that would show not all crimes are reported how are we finding this out? What are we seeing that the City is reporting vs. what is really happening?
Hi Phil,

To be specific, an example of "hiding crimes" is labelling police reports "departmental information" when a crime has occurred or has been alleged. By doing this, the Ohio Sunshine Laws can be skirted because it can be claimed that the report is a "confidential law enforcement investigatory record." In this case, the law enforcement agency is not obligated to produce the report for public viewing. They can pretty much say something is "under investigation" for an infinite amount of time. Therefore, when reports are labelled like this, it is unlikely that you will ever see them.

Should we get daily/monthly/weekly crime updates? Should we rely on the blotter in the paper? Currently, I don't think we can rely on either, as when reports are labelled in such a manner, the media would not have access to the reports either. Even if they did get access, would they print what they found?

In crime reporting, I expect crimes and alleged crimes to be labelled properly in the police media log, the crime map, and elsewhere. In the event of a serious crime, like rape happening, a statement needs to come from the city. Does the public need to worry? Has a suspect been apprehended? Is there a rapist on the loose? These seem like pretty simple questions to me.

I notice that many rapes and alleged rapes in Lakewood are labelled "department information" or something of the like. What makes a rape allegation different from an allegation of any other crime? Should we label robberies departmental information because we don't know if the victim can be believed? What makes rape victims different from victims of other crime? This is one of the reasons why rape is one of the most under-reported crimes. Victims are often not taken seriously and are often blamed and/or given the brush-off.

We have an excellent police force and I don't think the police are labelling these this way on their own volition. I suspect that the orders to do this come from the safety director. If a rape or alleged rape is labelled department information, it is easier to file it away somewhere so it never goes down as a statistic, which protects the Lakewood "brand" like I suspect the mayor/safety director wants.

I have attached a word document with copies of police media log reports. Note that some of these are labelled correctly as "sexual assault" or something similar. However, was the public ever informed about any of these except for the attack on the elderly woman at the Westerly?

One, while I cannot find any allegation of rape, was where a 20-year old girl was apparently knocked out while walking on Bunts near the high school. When she woke up, she was all bloody and dirty. Another, where I also cannot find any allegation of rape, was also frightening to me. A female on Wyandotte alleged that she woke up to a man trying to get on top of her in bed. She must have fought him off and he left. Was the public ever notified about this other than in this log? Not to my knowledge. The report was also labelled "suspicion".

There are two other alleged sexual assaults that apparently disappeared from the logs before I could copy them. One was a case where a young boy was allegedly sexually molested by a stranger outside an apartment building near Pepper's Restaurant. The first and last time I saw this report, it was labelled "departmental information". Was the public ever informed about this? Not to my knowledge. Another happened just a few weeks ago on Halstead. Details on this one were sketchy to begin with, but is was labelled "sexual assault" before it apparently disappeared. I wonder if this will go down as a crime statistic.

If you are so inclined, please see the attachment. We are not a perfect city and I think most of us know that. The safety, especially of our women and children should be taken seriously.
Attachments
Sex Crimes.doc
(399.5 KiB) Downloaded 108 times
Lori Allen _
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Re: Well At Least It Is Not Political - Really

Post by Lori Allen _ »

Not to take away from the seriousness of rape, but you can expect to see a puff piece written by Colin on onelakewood in the next couple of days that will say that the mayor has contacted the Rape Crisis Center or other persons or organizations to help the women of our community. It appears he hasn't given a damn so far,why now,this is an election year.
Lori Allen _
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:37 pm

Re: Well At Least It Is Not Political - Really

Post by Lori Allen _ »

Brian,

Sorry. I thought that the seriousness of these rapes in Lakewood are much more important than repeated news about the hospital.
FWIW
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Well At Least It Is Not Political - Really

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Phil Florian wrote:
I agree with your points but that is why I wanted to know what the original email to the Mayor said because the popcorn thing seemed so out of place I wonder if he was trying to answer another question. Otherwise, yeah, pretty tacky on his part to use it as a campaign statement.

Am I piling on the Deck? If you say so. Was my point invalid (namely that the preponderance of posts on the Deck are strongly negative towards Summers?)? Like the Anti-Summers/Pro-Skindell thing where you had alternates for how I should have said things I guess I really need to restate things to keep in mind how it might be received. Maybe I should have said "Seeing as how most of the front page of the Deck shows an anti-Summers bias..." Does that work better? I want to be accurate and still make my point. Let me know if that works. Writing IS really editing after all.

Thanks!

Phil
Phil

(Phil and I used to work next to each other, so we have some history.)

Phil,

I originally posted about the "Solstice Steps" Mike Summers and some of the people supporting Summers have said that Senator Skindel is a political opportunists. I would think that opens the floor to the discussion of political opportunists.

On one side we have a State Senator that would have been in office 3 more years, term limited out, and could have run for Mayor as a succesfully term limited out Senator and Representative for the Lakewood Area.

On the other side we have Mayor Summers working in secret for year to uncover a plan, 3 days after close of registration to run for Mayor. A total knock out punch. Then plans to unroll the rest right before the end of Absentee Ballots with one final orchestrated maneuver the unveiling of the "Solstice Steps" no where near a Solstice. This Summers made it all about politics with projects planned a year ago. The new walks, new streets, etc are common in an election year, but this!

"Am I piling on the Deck? If you say so. Was my point invalid (namely that the preponderance of posts on the Deck are strongly negative towards Summers?)?"

Everything is a valid point of view on the Deck. That is why we work so hard to uncover the person behind the views. To see if the poster is as valid as the views they put forward.

As the mailer also went into safety, past performance should be looked at as well. Right?

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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