New Grant School??!!!

[marklingm]

Discussion is good for the process.

Matt

I am sure you also meant...

desired...

needed...

appreciated...

great...

All those and more.

As always Mr. Markling, thank you for wading into the Mosh Pit of Word Jazz we call the Observation Deck.

Thanks.

[Dee Martinez]

I know I am sounding like a broken record and I apologize for that.
But what I am saying is that 7 years ago the overall program was presented to the public based on remodeling or rebuilding SCHOOLS on SCHOOL property. Yes Harrison and Garfield involved purchasing some residential property and that went smoothly.
At no point was there any talk of involving city property swaps or developing Warren Rd.

That would have fundamentally changed the nature of the conversation. I NEVER consdiered the school project to be about economiic development. I thought it was about schools.
My concern is that some will use this "idea" for self-promotion and Lakewood schools and kids will lose out in the process.
Discuss anything you want on the LO. Talk about combining all the schools into a 20 floor building at Lakewood Park. Its a free country. I just think that elected officials have the responsibility to be serious and I want to know how serious people are taking this.

[Bill Call]

Jim, PLEASE! Be honest. If the BOE had not included the citizens in the discussion and exploration you and your friends on the deck would have been all over it. This is a no win for all elected officials. if they make decisions based on information they have, they are wrong to not discuss it with the residents. If they ask the residents for input they are chided for not being able to make a decision.?

First, thanks to you and all of the others who have contributed their time and emotional capital to this project.

Your point is well taken. If the board had made decisions about closing schools without community input they would have been criticized. If the board simply rubber stamps the choices of the committee they will be criticized. I have no problem with the process.

The final decision is up to the board. My natural suspicion is that the board will decide to do what they intended to do all along. However, if the committee comes out strongly with a recommendation to do something different I think it is possible that minds might be changed. In any case we elect the school board to make decisions.

I haven’t seen any proposal that would cause me to oppose the coming bond issue. I like the idea of using some of the hundreds of millions to be spent to add something to the community rather than take something away. But if the decision is to fund subtracting instead of adding I won’t take my marbles and go home.

The question I have is this: Do those chosen to be on the committee have the power to choose or just the power to rubber stamp?

Bill,
One of the benefits of the Observation Deck is that it provides a historic record. The Board did not "choose" anyone to be on the Phase III Steering Committee. Any Lakewoodite who wanted to be a member, was made a member. See http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7585.

There is nothing before the Phase III Steering Committee to "rubber stamp." That assumes that the Board has made a decision, which it has not - contrary to what our pals may suggest.

Thanks for your service to the community, your willingness to take part in this discussion and the spanking.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Dee

I do not see the Kaufman idea to be about economic development. Or retail, or offices, etc. I see it as strictly an idea that asks would this be better for the kids, and the city.

You would have to admit, a school with a field and green space has to be appealing when you look at Lincoln and Grant.

As for who is taking it seriously, I would have to say city hall, which is good I believe the comment was we are willing to look at plans until they can decide if it can be done or not, or work or not. I have not found one person at City Hall that says it is not worth discussing. One the schoolboard side, it is more mixed with the members I have spoke too. It would seem that the committee is at least willing to look at it, though it did not come through proper channels for ideas.

Dee, think of how much has changed in 7 years. We now know the WestEnd would have bankrupted Lakewood, or as Tom Jordan said leaving office, "It would have put us $25 million in debt right now." We now also realize that the Grow Lakewood report that put so much value in office space did not see the future coming. That needs to be rethought.

This is why I worry so much about Lakewood and some people's "goals."

FWIW



.

[Meg Ostrowski]

I was unaware of the protocol for submitting ideas to the Phase III Steering Committee until it was made clear last week.

I have since submitted my idea directly to members of the committee for consideration.

I do not know if it is being taken seriously but I was told they would vet it through their process to determine if it is viable.

[Kristine Pagsuyoin]

Meg,

As part of the Steering Committee, and one of the co-chairs, I can tell you that all ideas submitted to the committee will be given the opportunity to be vetted. Planning Advocates, co-chairs, and the administration are working very hard to find a balance between ideas that come through our committee, and outside of the committee. Incidentally, another other idea that has been submitted also includes taking a look at an alternative land site other than where the 3 elementary schools currently are located. At this time, there is not a general litmus test that ideas go through to determine if they are viable or not. The co-chairs will be working very hard before the next public meeting to make sure that the process is clear, transparent, and on task.

Public discussion on this issue is good and healthy. I would be more worried if no one cared. That said, I do think that if citizens feel strongly about the process, and about the recommendations that will be submitted to the Board of Education, that they join the committee. We want the committee to remain open to citizens who can attend the meetings, and who are willing to discuss the tough issues.

[Dee Martinez]

Dee

I do not see the Kaufman idea to be about economic development. Or retail, or offices, etc. I see it as strictly an idea that asks would this be better for the kids, and the city.

You would have to admit, a school with a field and green space has to be appealing when you look at Lincoln and Grant.

As for who is taking it seriously, I would have to say city hall, which is good I believe the comment was we are willing to look at plans until they can decide if it can be done or not, or work or not. I have not found one person at City Hall that says it is not worth discussing. One the schoolboard side, it is more mixed with the members I have spoke too. It would seem that the committee is at least willing to look at it, though it did not come through proper channels for ideas.

Dee, think of how much has changed in 7 years. We now know the WestEnd would have bankrupted Lakewood, or as Tom Jordan said leaving office, "It would have put us $25 million in debt right now." We now also realize that the Grow Lakewood report that put so much value in office space did not see the future coming. That needs to be rethought.

This is why I worry so much about Lakewood and some people's "goals."

FWIW



.

Whats best for the city and kids is a matter of opinion, of course. I think Lakewood did just fine for a lot of years with Lincoln where it is and Grant where it is and Kaufman Park where it is.

I thought you LIKED Lakewood. Why do you want to so dramatically change it? What is so compelling about closing two neighborhood schools, and putting up a huge new one in between Drug mart and the tracks and getting rid of a city park in the process?
Is it just because Ms Ostrowski came to YOU first?
I still ask how seriously this is being taken outside of the small sample of opinion here. I wouldnt expect anyone on the council or BOE to say this is really great or this is really dumb. but I sure would like to hear if the two groups would even consider it.

As for the steering committee, my recommendation stands. Grant is not going to collapse anytime soon. Fix Lincoln. Fix Roosevelt. Finish the high school. Pass the phase 3 issue and get the state money

[Meg Ostrowski]

Dee,

If you haven't already, I would encourage you to submit your recommendation to the Steering Committe by calling the Phase III Hotline at (216) 227-5315. Although some of the committee members check in here, following protocol will insure that your idea gets the consideration it deserves.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Dee

Maybe that is how you do things. As I often think many are not capable of thinking out of their box. But Meg submitting the article to the Observer, not me first second or third has no influence on me, but I guess maybe it would you.

As for the schools Lincoln, has to be one of the oldest and most outdated schools in the city. If we are to believe what the committee came up with 7 years ago, we would also have to look that it is impossible to air condition, and nearly impossible to get wires run for all of the equipment that needs it. From what I see it is being protected for a small group north of the WSL, that has only looked upon the other 90% of Lakewood as a way to reduce taxes, and build their malls near enough to save on gas. But hey that is me.

One might ask, why do you not want the kids to have grass? a soccer/baseball field? recreation?

I have no idea if it would even work, anything has to be better then letting St. Eds use it for $1.00 a year in a bad deal that goes back to Sister Cain.

So Marc's is OK in front of a school, but Drug Mart 1,000' away is wrong? What about the library being only 425' away. OR do we not count that.




.

[marklingm]

As for the steering committee, my recommendation stands. Grant is not going to collapse anytime soon. Fix Lincoln. Fix Roosevelt. Finish the high school. Pass the phase 3 issue and get the state money

http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewt ... &start=135

To Danielle.

Just my opinion but I think your fears about Grant are unfounded. First it is the newest and easiest of Lakewoods schools to bring up to current ADA and educational standards.
Second, closing Grant would leave a lopsided map with 3 elemntary schools (Harrison Roosevelt Hayes) to the far south and 3 (Lincoln, McKinley/Mann, and Taft/Emerson) to the far north with nothing in between.
(Also I see the Taft land being far more valuable than Grant's, but real estate is not my specialty)

With new buildilngs at Harrison and Hayes I would worry more about Roosevelt if another building has to close

http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3435

Dee,

I think the above two quotes are good examples as to why everything should be given the opportunity for discussion. Opinions and factors change over a period of seven or even two years.

Matt

[Dee Martinez]

Mr Markling

The second quote was not mine. I did not write that

Mr O'Bryan

No other Lakewood elementary schools have grass or soccer fields. No elementary schools ANYWHERE have those things.

What is the WSL?

[Dee Martinez]

Once again the loss of the edit button makes us look foolish.
Yes Mr Markling I did write that 2 yrs ago. And when I read it I am not sure what I am saying now is any different with what I said back then.
Grant is still the easiest school to fix. Closing either Roosevelt or Lincoln would be a burden for many parents and kids.

[Dee Martinez]

Mr OBryan

You really dont know nearly as much as you think you do about Lakewood.
The Lincoln neighborhood is not a "small group north of the WSL"
The Lincoln area includes kids in modest apartments and doubles and basic middle-class houses. It has also been the LD school for kids in a wider area.
If your rich and living in an Edgewater mansion your kids are going to Horace Mann on the west or Emerson on the east.
The Lincoln neighborhood is an organic community that has been sustained over time by cooperation between teachers and parents.
And you know what? Grant has the same qualities. Why bust up 2 succesful operations so kids can have some grass and a scoccer field they cant use because theyre only 7?

From what Ive read here over the years you do have a blind spot about Lakewood schools.

[Danielle Masters]

Just for the record there is a fair amount of green space behind the Grant playground, it's a nice big area for the kids to run around in.

[Danielle Masters]

darn edit button: I should say it is not as big as a baseball or soccer field but it is a large area.